boa12

bru, what do you have now? rf-3?

"You da audiophile!" i just got into digital, surround a few years ago. but i'm on my 3rd receiver/prepro. so i learned about stuff like this first hand & from research (this is a great info source for one). but i'm sure many here are tired of me harping on this adjustable crossover & bass mgmt thing. so ideally you need to demo & experiment w/ settings at your place. iow, everybody's ears & tastes are different. the bass mgmt may not even be that much of a biggy for you.

v, yeah looks to me like you've done a good job of smoothing down the peaks. this is what can be accomplished w/ eq w/ the room nodes at your listening position - bring down the peaks to more match the nulls. though if a null is a complete void like some on here have had, then eq can't help much on those, if at all. an outboard & more complex graphic EQ may help to do a lil better, but whether the cost is worth it isn't a sure thing. how's it sound to you now? btw, i had one big peak around 50hz that i took down some w/ the notch filter in my pre/pro. but haven't got into eq-ing beyond that. yet anyway. maybe i should try it.

i may be wrong, but I don't think horned rotated his C7 horns when he went vertically. think i got the info above from him - that the C7 horn radiates more vertically in its normal horizontal position as would make sense to me. so if you're using them for effects or other surround speaks you put them verticle to get a wider dispersion. if i'm wrong then all you have to do is put them horizontal & not mess w/ the horns. but i'm going from memory. anybody know for sure which way the horn radiates in its original position?

you may want to post this over in the promedia section.

sounds to me like the onk is ok but your perception is the rc sound is not optimal. same w/ all material? have you tried true biwiring the rc? have you properly calibrated the speaks & sub using a sound meter? tweaks like that or maybe the onk has some other control that effects the center channel besides level & eq-ing it (should sound good flat/or with no eq). don't know what to tell you. the rc-7 should be better , but then you'll need rf-7. btw, what are your mains?

dale, i have a C7 between cornwall surrounds. the C7 is a nice lil speaker & matches pretty well to the cornwalls/heritage. could you move the las in for side surrounds? then use one or two C7 for rear surround. at least there you'd have a good match-up w/ your C7 front center for front-back effects. of course your best timbre match would be to use other heritage. like a belle or las center, or a heresy for space reasons. then the las as surrounds & one or two heresy for rear surround.

yeah as dean says plus, if you're using a receiver w/ a fixed crossover around a high 80hz, as many including myself have found w/ a sub, the bass is better quality when the speaks are set to small no matter their size. so why put the money in bigger woofs that effectively aren't needed? best route imho is, for a high fixed crossover receiver, get smaller speaks like the rb-5 or 3, & put the extra $ in a better quality sub. or if you want bigger speaks, get a receiver or prepro/amp that has an adjustable crossover in the dsp that will go down to 40-60hz (preferably adjustable in 5 or 10hz increments), & some good power to push the woofs adequately down lower in freq. the only way i'd use rf-3 is w/ an adjustable crossover in a 5.1+ set-up, or for 2-speaker listening w/ no sub (like i'm doing now w/ my rf-3). when/if i expand that marantz sr8000 based system to include a sub, i'll be using an outboard adjustable crossover since marantz also use the fixed 80hz scheme.

"Now as my last resort I have removed the hi/low clips from the center channel. I connected the cable to the low and both woofers are working well. The horn on the other hand sounds like its in a coffee can and not a speaker." bru, you mean you just threaded the same speaker wires thru both high & low posts? iow, the high posts are connected right? or did you biwire it? may want to try that at least since the speaker is biwirable. when/if you biwire you don't want to have the posts directly connected, but you do want both the high & low posts connected to the receiver front speaker posts. & as v said, try that trouble-shooting to hear if the rc is defective. also, is it possible you're comparing it to another klipsch or in a better room & expecting too much from your rc in your place?

dk, i'd say there's about a 99% chance its 80hz, both high pass to the speakers set small & low pass to the sub outs. of course if you set any speakers large they bypass the crossover & play to their full range. but then you probably will get muddy bass because your large speaks & sub are interfering w/ each other across the same freq range. i have a sony de935 in the bedroom & know its 80hz. thought it said so in the manual. plus 80hz is usually it (though yamaha uses 90hz) because thx used that as their standard for small satellite speakers & sub. i know, if we have bigger speaks/woofs that sucks. that's why its my biggest peeve w/ many receiver makers.

yeah i'd definitely go for that. same sounding speak - no audible dif. i did the same by adding in a C7as a rear center to my legends, cornwall sys. really was a great addition & filled in the gap between the surrounds great. & you'll find that the denon plays rear center for any mode &/or format that uses the 5 speakers before, DD 5.1, DD EX, Prologic, dts 5.1 & es, & even 6 "channel"/speaker stereo. just as long as you set-up the speaker in the denon.

cd, $100k would be no problem but I don't have enough experience when it comes to those ultra expensive amps & processors, though krell, levison, bryston come to mind. sure ears can chip in there. but for speaks i'd definitely start out w/ 4 khorns & 3 belles. for subs 4 velo hgs-18 or 4 svs ss if more for HT. but that's only around $30k so far. since i'd only get klipsch speaks it'd be hard to get to $100k but i'm sure i could do it if i had to.

---------------- On 10/23/2002 10:04:03 PM Detroit Kid wrote: "boa12, I do have a setting on my Sony STR-DE575 receiver for LFE (Low Frequency Effect), which can be set from 0db to -20db. Sony recommends setting it at 0db to get "the full LFE signal at the mix level determined by the recording engineer". This probably means I don't have the control that you speak of - having 'an adjustable crossover', right? Could I get a preprocessor to do all of this stuff that you're talking about?" yes & yes. the adjustable crossover & bass management pertain to the low bass in the speaker channels & how that is routed to the sub. lfe is a whole dif thing - its the .1 discrete channel info in the 5.1 material. & yes probably best to leave it flat at 0. more LFE the better, right? though for dts 5.1 music/concert disks the lfe may be a lil much & some recommend dropping the LFE for this stuff down up to 10db (-10db). & yes of course an adjustable crossover is best to have but its mainly in more expensive receivers & prepros, like b&k receivers & prepros, denon receivers like the 4802, 5803, etc. also you want a set-up w/ some power because you're having to push the bigger speaker woofs for higher impact in leau of using a sub instead for that frequency range. "You recommendation is to get the RB-3s with a good subwoofer. If I had a better receiver (allowing me to set the crossovers, would your recommendation be different? Can you recommend a subwoofer that wouldn't break the bank?" depends on your budget, but some great performers for a <$1000 cost are sv subs @ www.svsubwoofers.com , paradigm pw2200, etc. check out or post in the powered subwoofer section at this site. "Also, aren't the RF-3IIs and RB-3s similar in price? If so, aren't the RF-3IIs a better speaker?" i think the rb-3 is about $100 or 2 less than rf-3. the rb-5 & rf-3 are the same price. w/ the rb bookshelfs you get real wood finish over the veneer finish of the rf-3. but w/ the rf-3 you get bigger bass floorstanders though its questionable why you need that w/ a high fixed crossover in the processor of a receiver. i'd definitely get the rb-3 & put the extra dough in a sub over going just rf-3 & no sub. unless you're only listening to 2 channel music w/ no sub. i think the rb-3, rc-3, either rs-3 or 2 more rb-3 for surround, & a good sub like an svs would be a nice speaker sys for the $ along w/ your sony. & if you ever get that bigger, better receiver or seperates you could get some bigger mains & move the rb-3 to rear surround duty in 7.1. best though to demo things at your place & let your ears & budget decide what's best for you.

"Actually the only difference between the speaker cable for the center and the mains is that the center is sold as a single (thus it should be about half the cost) " skop, yeah that makes sense. why didn't i see thru that? though i have a feeling knowing monster its more than 1/2 the cost of a pair. if I remember right about $10 more than 1/2. kain, yes optical is aka toslink. & i have the MB 400 but don't know the other. know the 400 is double shielded w/ a solid core. if the M is better like triple shielded get it. if the M is the same flip a coin.

welcome dk. that's a great question & helps me illustrate a point. i'd definitely go the rb w/ a good, adequate sub. most likely you'll have a receiver w/ a fixed crossover at 80hz or so anyway, & it'll sound best setting all speaks to small to avoid destructive interference w/ the sub. i'd say the same for rf-3 & sub. unless you have an adjustable crossover in your receiver or prepro that lets you drop the freq down to 40-50hz, why have bigger fronts for material when you're playing all speaks. w/ a fixed 80hz cross, may as well get some better quality speaks that only go to around 60hz flat & put the extra money in a good sub. or if you have or get big speaks that will do like 30-40hz flat, get a receiver or prepro/amp w/ good power & an adjustable crossover to down low.

jd, yeah what dnd says. my thinking is that the room itself will cause some amount of timbre mismatch to your ears. iow, even w/ the same info in mono w/ the exact same speakers, but w/ some in the front of room & the others in the rear, they'll still sound somewhat different, unless you have one of those perfect sound rooms. but if you use speaks whose own drivers/characteristics don't as well match as those that do, then you will get even more timbre confusion. so try to timbre match 'em as if they're all fronts. that's my logic anyway.

sorry. i did a cut & paste from another thread on this site & above is what i get.

i talked to an engineer at the radio station about my rf in rear speakers problem. he seems to think its being picked up in the pre/pro or amplifier, & mainly because i'm floating my grounds w/ cheater plugs. but this doesn't make sense to me as right now i'm getting the rf fairly audibly only from one rear cornwall, though slightly from the other cornwall, as well as the LF klf-30 w/ totally different biwire cable. so i'm going to have him supply me w/ some ferrite attachments 1st, though he says they won't help. that's easier than messing around unplugging everything in troubleshooting. the real problem is the radio station. they're only a few blocks away, & i never noticed a problem until they switched frequencies & I bet upped the power output. the neighbor mentioned he's getting it on his speakers too & they've already been here a few times getting it off my phone lines as well as all over the neighborhood. & to do the phones they used filters & line attachments. don't know why he's so sure the ferrite attachments wouldn't help on the cables.

i talked to an engineer at the radio station about my rf in rear speakers problem. he seems to think its being picked up in the pre/pro or amplifier, & mainly because i'm floating my grounds w/ cheater plugs. but this doesn't make sense to me as right now i'm getting the rf fairly audibly only from one rear cornwall, though slightly from the other cornwall, as well as the LF klf-30 w/ totally different biwire cable. so i'm going to have him supply me w/ some ferrite attachments 1st, though he says they won't help. that's easier than messing around unplugging everything in troubleshooting. the real problem is the radio station. they're only a few blocks away, & i never noticed a problem until they switched frequencies & I bet upped the power output. the neighbor mentioned he's getting it on his speakers too & they've already been here a few times getting it off my phone lines as well as all over the neighborhood. & to do the phones they used filters & line attachments. don't know why he's so sure the ferrite attachments wouldn't help on the cables.

that's something. hope he gets more out of it, like a screenplay.

42, but i was 41 in april.

ears, ahhh yes forgot to mention the paradigm 2200. as someone said the chevy 327 engine of subs. i love th hgs-18 for music. clean bass w/ excellent definition. & for ht still has the power & extension flat to 12.5hz. only problem is the accelometer/servo that provides such low distortion (much less than my klipsch speakers) also clamps down for the monster spl like the svs. still it equals if not bests the rsw-15 in max around 31hz - 123db i believe. below 31hz its no contest for the hgs-18 against an rsw.

kain, actually dragon is a prequel. so if you want to see them in chrono order you should see dragon, then silence, then hannibal.

sl, sorry for that tangent. but have you checked out sv subs, or hsu for that matter?

thanks for the info md. i'm not up on the computers. maybe somebody else here or in promedia can help. however, i always thought the digital out was more for a recording device like dat & not for playback. & i would think you would have that problem w/ the remotes. if you really want to use all the speaks, i'd still just get a 5-channel power amp w/ comparable wattage or higher to your original denon, then you hook that to the receiver preouts, & run your best reference speaks off that amp. then you could hook up the other extra speaks (rb & polk) to the denon receiver speaker terminals. beware though when you run speakers in dif locations w/ the same material you can get some destructive interference w/ the room interactions. iow, it may not sound as good. & the polks would be a timbre mismatch to your klipsch speaks.