Professor Thump

It is too late Colter...Ear Cheese is already an official term. Have you tried the merlot? I have heard this goes well with cheese. Maybe you have been drinking too much Rock Star...

Zinsky, I appreciate your enthusiasm on an ambitious “Do It Yourself”. The beauty of audio design is that there is no one correct answer but generally speaking there are logical directions to designs. Everyone hears differently thus if it works for that individual, more power to him or her. Some of these loyal Klipsch forum debaters have been on this forum for a long time. I suspect that they would prefer that you read some of the dialogue already printed because there is a lot of good information in the previous threads. None the less don’t let them discourage your ambition for excellence whether it is correct for others or not. Designing a system with 8 sources is analogous to walking eight dogs with eight leashes. It is hard to keep them from tangling lines with one another or fighting. The same thing occurs with multiple sources that do not share a specific bandwidth…all the drivers do not get along well since each driver has a specific phase angle with reference to a given point. When you have a 10 foot array of speakers for near field this is a mess. The outside drivers are farther away thus delayed in phase. Please don’t underestimate the significant of this. It would take me a bit of time to count how many speaker systems I have designed, in my 20 plus years of work, but the number might be approaching 100 designs that came to fruition. So I have been around the audio block a bit. I have guidelines that I use in addition to Paul Klipsch’s. Most of you probably know that Paul Klipsch had 4 rules of optimization that he followed when designing a speaker: 1. Efficiency 2. Directivity 3. Distortion 4. Response There is one rule that I have added to the list. One source is best… Every design has its limitations… so do single sources. But in general one good source is better than two moderate quality sources. Before you judge consider this. If you had a perfect system it would be a point source, i.e. no size and it would be full range with no distortion and optimum dispersion characteristics. Wow! Great! Sign me up. Unfortunately the laws of physics kick in and limitation do occur with this concept. I have heard a single 6” speaker that did sound very good and was relatively full range. It was designed by Keith Yamagishi who is one of my most respected engineering friends from Panasonic. It had two limitations: 1. Power – the voicecoil was small and the cone light so it had limited power capacity. 2. Directivity – Being a 6 “ driver it beamed above 1 kHz so the sweet spot was limited. More laws of physics. 2Ka is where the dimensions are bigger than the wavelength thus the dispersion narrows. So now you have the first two problems with my rule. It won’t get loud and there is only one seat in the house. Most manufacturers ignore the second issue for dispersion and sometimes the first one for efficiency. Both are important. So where does that leave me? Well I have no choice but to go to a two way design. So I have traded a seamless midrange with a single source for more SPL, lower distortion, and the potential for controlled directivity and flatter frequency response. All we need now is a perfect crossover and a perfect waveguide. Easy right? Not really. So now I have to amend my rule of single sources. The new rule is: Make each driver as good as possible. If you don’t start with good drivers the rest of the design is useless. I can’t stress the importance of this enough. No crossover will weed out all the defects of a driver. That is why we spend so much time at Klipsch designing optimum drivers for each system. Crossovers are great. They are the soul of the voice, the sonic personality of the design. I think they are the funnest part to design but they are a compromise to a single source because the speaker system is now more complicated thus the problems are more complex. At Klipsch we can take weeks or months to design a crossover. Some we get lucky in do in one day, but complicated ones where we can afford a lot of components are very complex. Just ask Chris, who is working on the voicing for Palladium. You can do the fundamental designs and listen to it. Once you hear things that need improvement you go back to the anechoic chamber and consider the multitude of options you have in improving the voicing. Needless to say it is complicated. The more sources you have the more complicated the problems. Now you have to phase align more sources. Every time the sources are 180 degrees out of phase you have a cancellation to the response. The sound is there but it is spread out in the room somewhere because it is shooting in another direction. This is why a voice may sound harsh or unintelligible. So in general I will minimize sources. Now for those of you who know me, I love pro sound systems with horns and I like bass, which means I like woofers…lots of them. The more 18” drivers you have in a live sound PA the better the base is. The THD is lower and the attack is tighter. So this contradicts my first rule. Here is why… Distortion I love headroom. A lot of people have never really heard bass with clean headroom. Live sound with a PA is usually the only way you will. So to have a personal system that can give you that level of attack is special. So to get back to your discussion… IMHO you are using too many crossover points. It will be too complicated. One or two is better. If you want more headroom focus more on multiple drivers in the throat of one horn. That way the multiple drivers look like one source and your power levels go up. Multiple subs will sum well but don’t go above 100 Hz or so. That way the wavelength is much bigger than the distance between drivers, so they look like one source.

Make sure the alcohol is evaporated priot to insertion. If you don't do this the alcohol can irritate your ear canals. Now you can... STICK IT IN YOUR EAR!

Hey, don’t worry…Everybody has ear cheese in their ear canals. It is natures way of keeping stuff out of your ears. Although there is a screen filter in the nozzle you definitely do not want to clog the air way. The safest way to clean is to take the ear tip off first and then clean the eartip. If there is ear cheese in the nozzle of the chassis you should be able to get out most clogs. Best bet is to clean your ears with Q tips right after you shower and check your PM’s once a day if using. This should minimize the ear wax clogging issue.

Just got around to reviewing this post... I agree with Colter. It is hard to get below 500 Hz with a 1132 compression driver. The phase plug sits so close to the diaphragm that excessive excursion occurs. This is not good because the minute that metal diaphragm smacks the phase plug it can be "lights out" for the driver, besides it sounds real nasty when it slaps the plug. If the horn was much larger and loaded lower in frequency that would help but it isn't practical. You have to solve that "kick drum:" attack problem with more cone area, because you will be displacing a lot of air. Imagine how much air is moved when you kick a "kick drum". That is how much air you have to move with a driver at the same SPL as the drum. Thus a 12" is much closer to the real instrument. A 10" on a phase plug is my favorite. You get lots of snap from the attack because you have a big motor and a lot of diaphragm area. Gee now I miss my EV MTH-2's... Keep Thumpin!

Oldbuckster,<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> Have you ever looked into wood pellet stoves? We put one in two years ago and have saved about $1000 per year compared to natural gas. The heat is nicer because it doesnt dry your air out as bad as a gas furnace. We heat our entire house with one stove by keeping the fan circulating on the furnace. The theater in the basement is a little cold but I like it that way. We use 1-2 40 lbs bags per day so this is some maintenance.

Utter amazing the love in this Forum community! Buddy is one blessed boy to experience such graciousness from Groomlake. I am sure he will understand the magnitude of generosity from Groomlake someday if he hasn't already. Hats off to Groomlake! Just goes to show you that there is some hope in the world. Take the news media with a grain of salt. It is hyped to get your attention.

Evidently someone else wasn't... http://cgi.ebay.com/Kilpsch-Custom-1-Headphone-BRAND-NEW_W0QQitemZ230192568913QQihZ013QQcategoryZ152377QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem They are already on eBay.

Yes the Dr is in Yep you cant beat a digital crossover, although a 24 dB/Oct analog is wonderful also. Then things are much more linear with power swings. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> I was a little confused when you mentioned hot ferrite lowering resistance, because I was thinking about increased temperature, but I believe you were talking about a better ferrite core with increased flux capabilities which lowers DCR because less windings are required. Have you ever looked at German powder cores? Most impressive also. Were you working on digital amp optimization with the nonlinear tantalums? I would like to hear your cap test on the Chorus. Maybe we could do this at the next Pilgrimage

Very practical question Dr Who. IMNHO passive crossovers are quite linear until driven to very high powers for long durations. When Klipsch does power tests using EIA noise source long term you can see the stress levels that are occurring from the thermal dissipation. Inductors seem to suffer more than caps. Part of this is due to the fact that copper, iron and steel are expensive. The quality of the inductor is really important for linear power capacity. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> Size matters For capacitors size determines Wattage or Volt Amp ratings. So generally the larger the physical size the better. We have had issues with vendors where we get samples of capacitors and design with them but once we get to Beta or Pilot builds the part source is changed and the size of the cap is smaller. The label says that it is the same value and the capacitance reads the same but it is obvious that the heat dissipation is less. So we always try to ask for cap samples prior to PCB builds. On Reference IV we purchased $2500 dollars worth of sample cap to develop the crossovers. When we got to Beta build the parts supplier changed vendors (to save cost) even though we asked that the samples we purchased be from the source that we would use for production. We required that the quality be what we asked for originally. Be careful with the power rating also. Volt Amp ratings are only 70% of Wattage ratings due to the way power factor is calculated. See references: http://www.apcmedia.com/salestools/SADE-5TNQYF_R0_EN.pdf http://www.mediarecovery.com/hot_topics/watts_volt_amps.php Thermal increases are the biggest issue with linear performance of crossovers. If the DC resistance of an inductor triples from 1 to 3 ohms your filter cutoff frequency (fc) and amplitude of that circuit is altered. This you can hear easily. It is bad enough that the voice coil heats up and compresses the sound

Gee... I wonder how much I could get for the six Custom 3 I have in the lab on eBay? Just kidding... [^o)]

Hi Fud,<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> Glad you are gonna stick it in your ear! As far as the sonic signature goes, the headphone upgrades are similar to speaker upgrades. The higher the price the more tools that the engineer has to do a better job at attempting to create the perfect beast. Entry level designs start out with high quality armatures, but no frills, i.e. no venting on the chamber, no special black voodoo magic to optimize the voicing no crossovers. As the budget for the bill of material increases so do the features. Add a ventget more bass. Add another driver, increase the headroom. Add an acoustic filterimprove the shape of the response. Add a crossover minimize the IM Distortion and optimize the EQ. The IEM should improve as you add more armatures. I am not sure how many armatures are enough, but I am pretty sure it is similar to live sound PAs. You cant have too many speakersIMNSHO. So to answer your question The characteristics can be similar in all designs but it is like comparing apples and oranges. Does a single cone driver in a speaker box have a similar sonic signature to a 2 way with a nice crossover? Hardly. There are no replacements for an optimized driver in a specific bandwidth. A woofer cant do what a tweeter can and vice versus.

Headphone amps do make a difference... I wish I could say otherwise but this is the case. Of course there are varying degrees of performance primarily due to the impedance of the load. I have found competitive headphones that are sensitive to the output resistance of the amp. Some of these are expensive headphone in excess of $400. There are a lot of good amps out there. I have used several preamps which are both inexpensive and expensive. I have experimented with several computers, although not as many as one could. Most of my testing though was done with Nano, Classic and 30 gig iPods because I am assuming that 99% of the owners of Klipsch headphones will be on the go, without portable amps. I also listened to everything between 128 k sample rate and wave files, but most of my critical listening tests for voicing products was done on 192 k or higher.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> You didnt mention whether you are interested in a portable amp or not. If it is a portable amp, then I have heard good things from the Tomahawk and Hornet. You can see them at this website: http://raysamuelsaudio.com/products/tomahawk Headroom also has a nice array of amps also that you should look at. For home headphone amps your options are almost endless. Just look for something with a good power supply and low noise. Tube amps can be nice and warm also. Rolls make a reasonable amp if you are on a budget. I plan on looking at the Grace amps. I have had people use Crown amps, which are a nice option although the output power is a tad high on a power amp for a headphone so please dont try to burn in headphones with a large amp unless you are sure that your power level is within the range of that headphone. Remember if it is distorting, you are playing it too loud or you have a crappy source. The critical thing in your system is your headphones and of course your ears.

Dear AudioAdrenaline,<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> Thanks for the kind words Please keep in mind that it wouldnt have happened without a lot of people doing their jobs. Brad did a tremendous job on the ME design. He truly is a Boy Wonder! Tom made it easy for the team to work because he paved the way for us to do our jobs. No distraction and lots of support, that is what makes Klipsch Audio work. Have you noticed the website? We have Sarah wordsmithing for the laymen from engineering Geek Speak. We have Kevin putting together one of the nicest websites I know of. George using his magic hands to create the artwork, Phil shooting lots of nice pictures from models who are Klipsch employees, Todd putting together a great manual, and Tamara putting the marketing all together. Mike Klipsch was instrumental in making it all happen from a business level. And the list goes on. Lets talk about the fun stuffthe way Image sounds. I am a really picky person when it comes to music. After spending years mixing live sound, I have a better idea of how the mix is as much an artists paint brush as any other musician in the band. This is what I keep in mind when crafting the sound signature for these personal monitor designs. Voicing the PMs are very similar to a live mix. You can hide vocals in the mix or bring them to the forefront. You can emphasis the bass to be full or subtle. But what is most important is that you can make a pair of armatures, and electro-acoustic filters bring out ALL the qualities of the performance, IF the sound signature is accurate. This is what IMAGE does and especially what Custom 3 will do. It is hard to believe that sound quality can be any better than IMAGE in my less than humble opinion, but it is true. Custom 3s is a bit better. Brad and I agree that we are getting spoiled. These little headphones are like Crack for your ears (or adrenaline in your case). We have a hard time listening to a lot of other HP after tasting these ear candies. If I could design a loudspeaker to have the robust quality in the lows and the effortless highs, now that would be a speaker. The vocals in the midrange are as warm as I know. I am starting to get concerned if I can design a 3 driver PM any better than this. I cant wait to hear that final voice! So I am glad that you can now "STICK IT IN YOUR EAR"

Hey Fud, As long as you have average size ears the Customs will be flush with the outside of the ear. That was the way they were designed. Some people have really small concha's and the bodies will stick out a bit. I think people got confused when we showed in Europe and they used a ceramic head with no ear holes. That demo was definately sticking out but it is natural for that to happen. Try them out. If they don't fit you can return them in 30 days. We want you to be happy with our design. So stick it in your ear and see if it fits you.

Hi Ben,<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> Congratulations on being one of the earliest adopters of Klipsch Custom 2's! I am glad we finally have our first review from a paying customer! Thanks for the feedback! It is good to hear that they sound good to your ears Ben, but most important they fit you easily and are comfortable. This Custom series is lower impedance than the typical Grados and the gain is a bit higher than Hi End Circum-Aural HPs. This is primarily because the mobile MP3 players dont have much voltage. I would like to make some IE PMs that have higher impedance for critical listeners using preamps. If this design was 150 ohms most customers would complain about the efficiency. So you cant please them all. Klipsch just needs to make two models. As far as the cable noise, you will have a little noise from cloth if they are not worn properly. Try wearing them behind the head with the cinch at the back of the head. Dont wear the cinch so tight that you are getting a tug at the ears, just tight enough to isolate the cable noise from the ear. This will also allow the fit to be most secure and out of your way when you are working. You can hang upside down and it wont be an issue for the HPs you might drop your iPod thoughRemember not to cut the cable either when you are working. I wouldnt want to see you crying. 128 Kbps is the minimum sample rate that I would recommend for listening. 192K is even better. Unfortunately Loseless takes up too much space for mobility but if you don't care than this is of course best. Now you can rock in your cube Ben!

Custom 2 has an acoustic low pass filter, which allows for additional bass while yielding phase coherent high frequency.

Hi Mitch, The ear gels are made from Silicone which is a very durable material. Alcohol will not damage the ear gels so you can soak them overnight in it for a thorough cleaning.

Do you have a PX in Bagdad?

Has anyone seen the new layout we just launched on our Klipsch website? What do you think? Spiffy ehhh?

I have made a pact that I will not dis the competition. We are all in this together making better music each year. But when it comes to the ER4P's this is a highly respected model that has stood the test of time as a single armature. When you compare them the first thing you will notice is that the IMAGE is much smaller in diameter...by almost 50%. This means that small ears will have a better chance of a perfect fit. Mead Killion from Etymotic (pronounced with a long "o" as in the word "mode") has developed the ER4P to be flat to the ear with a 5 dB rolloff in the HF. This is to emulate a speaker in a room with carpeting. Mr. Killion is one of the most respected people in the audiology community, and well deserved of that respect. When you make sonic comparisons you will notice that IMAGE has a higher bass response than the ER4P. That was intended. In fact we had to work real hard to get the LF to perform the way we wanted in such a small armature. It was already difficult to make the KG926 and we had to make it more complicated. For my ears the IMAGE is more balanced in real world use. Most people will get a partial seal on IE headphones. It may be a 75% seal or more like a 95% seal, but there will most likely be a small leak. People are going to hear less bass when they have an ear leak, thus we decided to make sure that the PM's didn't sound too bright. Everyone will experience In Ear sound differently due to their anatomy. Some will wear the earphones deeper than others in their ear canal which will give a different user experience. The volume of air in your ear canal will change the response of the earphone slightly. Depending on how the ear tip sits in your ear you will get a totally different response on the top end. Lots of things can change your musical experience. But each design does have distinct characteristics that you can't ignore. This is similar to comparing different rooms with the same speakers. The speakers will sound different in each room but still have those artifacts of sound due to their design. The best thing I can say is try IMAGE. I think you will like it or your money back in 30 days. Isn't that the deal Amy? Just stick it! I think you will like it.

Yeah but did you tell them that the sound is darker on the black ear tips? Ahhaaaaa!

That is great news Ben! I can't wait to hear your opinion of the final product. Please make sure you have a good seal. We have have had people not realizing the bass potential for several weeks because they didn't have the angle correct. That model should have plenty of bass!

Hi Bill, SInce the eartip is the same, other than color, the noise isolation will be the same. The double flange works better for additional isolation. Hey I bet you get twice as much isolation from two flanges, if I do the math. [] If you want optimum isolation (with more discomfort) you can use foam ear tips, but you have to keep throwing them away as they get dirty. The highest level of isolation would be a "custom" ear shell like an In Ear Monitor. This will cost you $500 and up but you will have the most cancellation with this since it goes very deep in your ear canal. I just spent 15 hour on a plane back from Hong Kong and I only used the Customs PM's. My ears didn't hurt after that many hours. They will with most ear tips that are round in cross-section. Usually after 5 hours I want to rip the standard triple flange out of my ears, but it works great for isolation. Keep it in the air...Just stick it in your ear!

Get the IMAGE now...Then you won't be crying. You can't wait any longer can you?