ClaudeJ1

If anyone is looking for a single LaScala for a center channel, I will have a few original single LaScalas for sale in the Garage Sale section (1 black lacquer and 1 oiled birch). I also have my original resistor box to create the "mono in the middle." It's the one PWK came up with and was using in his home. I just made one modification. I put a potentionmeter in the center out so that you can change the attenuation (mine was at around -4 db).Email me.

It's mostly rants and raves about politics and religion. I asked to be in, went there one day and not been back since. You are not missing much. You can go lots of places the Web to waste time besides there.

Why don't you just build a couple of Tom Danley's LAB horns? You could do that for less than $1,000/pair and they get to 30 Hz with 106 db efficiency in a 16 cubic foot enclosure. I am trying to reuse the four JBL2226J drivers that I'm tearing out of the beat up vented cabs. The Lab Horn is designed for the Eminence Lab12 (12" driver) and requires something like 4 cabs side by side to achieve usable output to 30Hz. Is that the one you're talking about? YES. Here's Tom's post from the High Efficiency Speaker Asylum from Feb. 26, 2003. I am glad you are pleased with the driver, I think you will be more so when you finish the horn part of the project. The driver is a good one, it does work well and I am sure it will be made for a while as I know Jerry at Eminence was building the LAB horns too. Part of the reason for my designing the LAB horn and specifying the driver parameters was to give the Pro-sound DIY'rs a modern bass horn, so many people interested in horns still follow the old " folk lore ", like for example that a bass horn driver should have low mass and small excursion capacity. When a couple of people on the live audio board suggested using a JBL-K series driver I stepped in and said look, if your going to all the trouble to build something like a horn, why not make it work as well as it can and not start life crippled. In reality, the proper driver parameters will always be the best choice and not ones chosen by "thumb rule" so while this driver seems very heavy to some, those who measure the box find a different story, it works exactly as intended. At some point, the folks who did a shoot out in Michigan will have the measurements and listening results posted on the basslist so more actual data will be available soon. Anyway, I am pleased that some HIFI types have picked up on the design, Don B was one of the first I was aware of to use it in a home. I was inspired myself, I have always had Servodrive subs around usually (often prototypes) so I am not often lacking in bass extension, my in room listening position response is pretty flat to 10 Hz. On the other hand, I have rarely had any of our big horns at home, they seemed "over kill" when a ContraBass or two can scare strangers.. I had just designed a variation on the LAB sub horn and got it in my living room last weekend, a little smaller, only 42 by 42 by 18 inches which also uses a "trick" in its operation. In room, it is unusually smooth for a small horn + - 3 dB from 30 to 225 Hz and with 10 dB of eq (no problem because of high sensitivity ~ 106 db 1w) the measured response is - 3 dB at 22 HZ. Using the TEF machine to measure phase and the Omnidrive (BS366) to mate them, I got it aligned with the Unity horn system on top. Listening results: Well, I am re-thinking my furniture arrangement in the living room to accommodate 2 LF horns (a right and left). The "closer to zero" degree acoustic phase of the LF horn shows up sounding very "tight" compared to the direct radiator's ~-90 degree phase (which is in effect an increasing delay with decreasing F). At the moment, the increased headroom and the fact that I can mate the acoustic phase with the Unity above (resulting in near zero degree acoustic phase from about 50 Hz to 5 KHz) makes the horn woofer more desirable and eq buys back some of the LF extension. At a loud listening level, the LF THD was 2% or less from 25 to 150 Hz so compared to a direct radiating cone driver, the horn is also much lower in distortion. No question, I think you will like those drivers in a horn. Are you going to the horn fest in Lima? Cheers, Tom Danley

Well the LaSalas are about 10 times more sensitive than your others, so that's why.

This is the direction I'm going..........the 10-12" driver/large midbass horn to replace the LaScala bottom. I want to go from about 250-1,000 Hz. with a straithg axis (not folded) horn. The get on with the treble section........possibly a 4 way if the EQ for the upper mid horn won't get me enough air above 5Khz. Do you know anything about a Peavey MB-1? Anyone want to buy two MWMs bins?

Why don't you just build a couple of Tom Danley's LAB horns? You could do that for less than $1,000/pair and they get to 30 Hz with 106 db efficiency in a 16 cubic foot enclosure.

Yes. Not that I have any measuring experience in a chamber, but why he claims it works for mid and not bass? Is it the nature of the compression driver vs. the woofer? What's the difference?

Yeah, I heard Khorns when I was 14 and I had my fiancee co-sign for a loan to get them when I was 23. I was hooked on horns way before then, but admittedly, no one did it better the PWK. I enjoyed my 3-channel setup (LaScala in the middle) for 30 years. I always needed two stereo ampsand I still have the little resistor box that I built way back when to get the adjustable mono in the middle. I asked Jim Hunter at last year's pilgrimage why they only used 2-channels to demo the Khorns. I'm glad to see he took my suggestion to heart and made it happen this year. Anyway I was immune to the disease while working 2 jobs and my kids were growing up. Now that the have left the nest, I got the disease back and it's all your fault Michael. I never would have thought of getting MWM's in my house if it weren't for all those pictures of you standing in front of them with a smug look on your face!!

Yes, Michael, thank you for letting me crash on your couch. I wish I could have come back on Sunday, but I had to leave early to get back to Detoit on time to get my daughter from the airport. She was coming back from a one month study abroad trip to Greece and Turkey. Also my whole family was there to celebrate my birthday and Father's day a week late (since I had to photograph an NYC wedding on the real one). Hope to catch all the HOK fun next time with the rest of the Klipsch sound addicts.

Perfect comment for Klipsch and Indy racing. I hope you don't mind if I quote you on that some day to explain how close we all are to the finish line. No problemo, amigo. Quote away! Like I told Amy after several listening sessions, including yours, "It all sound good."

I sure did!.... Forgot to mention, when I got up from my 3-hour crash on the couch in the House of Klipsch, some guy pulled up in a truck and wanted to know if there was some kind of sale on Klipsch speakers there because of the signs. I told him it was just a bunch of Klipsch fanatics ready to party.

If looks were important to you and I Michael, we woudn't own anthing painted black or shaped like a box, hence my comment on the "modern look."

More like the same - the P-39F is solid to 40Hz. Yikes! It's only number one priority in the PWK school of thought. I'd say the P-39 is exhibiting at least an extra few percent - especially in the bass (compared to the hornloaded bass bins). Certainly nowhere near being inaudible. The Khorn or the Jubillee are not FLAT to 40 hz. As far as efficiency, the reason I said "so what" was not for myself, but for the people who would buy a Palladium (who would also prefer the Cornwall/Chorus sound ) can afford the whatever "high end" power to drive it. The Mac Rack driving the Palladiums was no accident. Besides, 99 db efficiency is in the realm of the Cornwall and that suits many people just fine. I prefer the all-horn setup I have, even to Klispchorns because the bass doesn't roll off in MWM's the way it does in the rest of the bass horns, including the Jubilee. I'm sure all these subtle differences would be audible in the perfect test room, and with all of them present there, but that is not going to happen, so I'm just going by stricly impression, not rigid blind testing.

You need to 'splain ursef mo heah, Mr. Dean. Whutduhheckdidjameenbydat?

Ask a man from Vermont: "How's your wife?" to which, he would reply: "Compared to what?" (of course she would say the same about him, it's a Vermont thing, so I hear.) Anyway, the point is, audio life, is like a beer taste test.......A vs. B. We are talking about some premium beers in all cases here, so it's really a matter of choice and the size of your mug. After experiencing TRUE "subterranean" bass at IndyKlipschFan's home (from felllow wild Canuck, Michaels Hurd), proving once again that, short of pouring a 40 foot pair of concrete horns in your home's foundation, theres not substitute for kilowatts into huge 18" motors, with huge 18" passives, in a huge box whith room gain when doing direct radiator subs. That way, you can reproduce all of the sub bass info. (into the teens of hertz) that modern digital recordings from Hollywood can muster. So, while I have to admit that after some really concentrated listening to the P39's (let's not forget all of the acoustically optimized rooms that are also part of the overall sound), they had some obvious positive attributes. Yes, the 3-channel array was impressive, but I've been there, done that for 30 years, since I was 20 years old (without the benefit of digital time delay, but what's a few milliseconds among friends?). What I have now, with the huge MWM-s double bass horns (5 horns total per channel on a narrow wall) is partly dicated by the room. Yet, it's the best sound I've ever heard and I'm still improving it. Hey, it's MY beer mug, taste buds, and wallet, so there. A good "Indianapolis Analogy" would be the "500" race. All the cars are fast, but the winner only does so by only a small margin realtive to the 500 mile journey. They are all fast. All Klipsch speakers sound good in their respective categories. They make a speaker for all tastes and pocketbooks, eh?

Well I had this exact bold, majestic sound of the 3-channel setup for 30 years until recently when I went with 5.1/2.1 from the same set of speaker on a 13.3 foot wall, so the center is only used for movies. I think my LaScalas on top of MWM's is superior to Khorns by a pretty good margin, in both bass definition as well as upper bass and mid, since I can aim the LaScalas precisely where I'm sitting. Plus the Khorns fired the bass out of the sides and not directly at you like the MWM's. I still say the Palladiums belong in the same quality league. The higher price tag is for the modern look for emotional buyers who have more to spend on speakers than you and I do. I know that flat frequency response is in fourth place out of PWK's big four, but Palladiums do the other 3 just fine, PLUS do the 4th smoother than the Khorn/Belle setup as a pure transducer that only sacrifieces 6 db of efficiency in the process of being "pretty." But hey, it ALL sounds good to me, especially the Jubilees with the 402/K-69 setup.

Roger and Cindy, Thanks for opening up your lovely home to so many of us. It was a great party for sure. We have talked before about me wanting to experience your setup. Your words were an understatement. The whole thing is so very well done all around and I was blown away by the sonic experience..........a great balance of sound and aesthetics..............truly inspiring. I should add, I'm not easy to impress. LOL. Glad I finally made the trip to your place.

I was also, the night before. The mushy bass I heard initially was in the program material. I just got done listning to the same program material on my LaScala/MWMs all-horn 2 channel setup. The impact, dynamics, detail, etc. of this setup (see my avatar) is splendid. It's not like I want to go out and get a bank loan to buy Palladiums and replace the Klisch stuff I already have. But for those who make big money, 20 kilobucks for a pair of Palladiums plus associated electronics, is still a small amount compared to speakers costing 2-10 times as much and are probably not as good. Everything in engineering is a compromise, but it looks like Klipsch has made very few compromises with this speaker. It should serve to establish Klipsch in the "high end" of the market. No one can argue that it's shape and woodwork is like a fine piano or the finest of hand made furniture, with a modern look. Meanwhile, those of us who don't mind big ole (or new) horns of any size, and aesthetics/WAF be damned, can share that campfire (myself included). We still have several means of owning any flavor of horn we like from the Klipsch home or theater line. There's a Klipsch product for everyone, even you Dean!! LOL.

In looks, yes. In deeper bass, yes. In smoother response, yes. In depth of image, yes. In subtle ambience/phase coherence, yes. In efficiency, no, but so what? In transient repsonse, no, but still very good. In maximum SPL, no, but who cares? In low distortion, not sure (measurable), but both below threshold of audible detection. In low coloration, yes. In sound per cubic foot of space, yes. Can't think of anything else right now.

Many thanks to Roger Chase and his lovely wife for having so many of us over to their beautiful home. The home theater setup was amazing and no picture could ever do it justice. Once I sat in the sweet spot, it was hard to leave!! If the Pigrimage is the cake, experiencing IndyKlipschFan's theater was the icing on the cake!

Man, if anyone deserves a week off, it's you. You are one had workin' dude. Thanks for all you did for me, espcially the private time I got with the Palladiums.

that the Palladium P-39F's truly represent the highest pinnacle of evolution in the modern Klipsch line for the home. Every detail of speaker design has been refined to the nth degree. Trey had to kick me out of the room, but I got a full audition with Mac tubes of all my "test tunes" which are very revealing. They are smooth, powerful, micro-detailed, sub-terranean bass (no subwoofage needed for music). Plus they are the most gorgeous speaker there. I was very skeptical, but seeing and hearing is believing. I thinnk everyone else was impressed also. I had to leave early, so I missed dinner and seeing the winner's face. Thanks to the Amy and everyone at Klipsch for your patience and dedication, above the call of duty and passion, it was a great time once again. This is only my second time, but I learned so much again this year. Peace, Love, Beatles

Initially, yes, but, he later changed his mind and recommended a LaScala or Belle. He flet that having a direct radiator in the center had a measurable and audible distortion component, so he recommened an ALL horn setup. I spent some time in PWK's home while he played his symphony recordings for me. He was using two false corners and the little center channel resistor box (the ones he described in the Dope From Hope newsletters). He was also using a Crown D-60 and BGW-100 SS amps. This is in early August of 1985. I used raw birch Khorns and a mono LaScala center for over 25 years (I still use LaScalas for surround with subs). This was recommended to me in 1977 by my dealer. It works great, but I simply don't understand why there isn't a 3-Channel forum here, since PWK was pretty adamant about it and it works great.

Woudn't it just be easier to build some MWM bins?

Keele agreed with your findings about 33 years ago. KeeleOnHornsVSPortedDirectRadiator.pdf KeeleOnHornsVSPortedDirectRadiator.pdf