dhtman

Thanks. Klipsch breaking into the UK is a long story. At the first attempt back in the 70s, Klipsch suffered (as did Yahama with their excellent NS1000M) from their speakers being paired with contemporary solid state amps which were quite bright. The UK fashions in speakers at the time were flat frequency response and time alignment. The Klipsch speakers sounded bright and colored in comparison so were easy to pigeon-hole and dismiss (which is always a good thing for magazines whose hidden agenda is to look after the home manufacturers). Those perceptions from thirty years ago still influence the graying generation who bought into audio during the golden years of vinyl. Klipsch is re-entering the UK via the computer music market - pc speakers and ipod docks - the distributor is strong in computer peripherals. Probably a good strategy when you consider that they are winning sales to young consumers who might stay with the brand for another 30 years or so. Like any market, it's pyramid shaped and the volume is at the lower price points, not with Palladiums, Heritage and Jubilees. Ralph

Thanks guys for the mention and congratulations. We have had an agreement with Klipsch Europe to import the Jubilee, as there has not been a UK distributor for Klipsch. That is now changing however I'm hopeful that I will be able to continue with the Jubilee niche whilst working with the importer on other Klipsch home audio lines. I had a very positive discussion with their head of sales a few days ago. Ralph

I know! 20,000 circulation per month in the UK plus 5,000 to Asia/Australasia. They estimate a readership of 35,000 per month, but that probably includes dentists' waiting rooms several years after publication! Ralph

You're right not to trust the visual appearance of the record (unless using a microscope!) Noise is a function of the set-up geometry, the stylus contour, and the table design. First though, is the underside of your headshell absolutely parallel to the record surface or even a tad pivot end low? If the VTA is too high you will get more groove noise. Your Technics isn't the last word in isolation - you will be picking up reflected resonances from the platter. A graphite mat from Boston Acoustics might cure that. Likewise, you could try putting the table on a massier support - stone or multiple layers of plywood or best, a sand box. I have a record cleaner that's similar to the Acoustech and it has cleaned up loads of my garage sale LPs - only two were genuinely worn smooth and didn't improve from being washed. If you trade the convenience a hand brush from VPI working on a flat surface can achieve good results. People over at Audiogon are swearing by those hand-held steam cleaners that you see in Walmart - steam does good things in drawing small particles out and also seems to reduce static. Another thing to try is rinsing your records in clean water after you have washed them (if you aren't already) As in all audiotweakery though, change one variable at a time and check its effect. You don't need to spend $4k on a table - $3250 on a Galibier Serac would get you where you want to be! dhtman

Chris, thanks for pointing me in the direction of this thread. I think of my music collection as a diary - specific albums are related to events in my youth and it's great to go back and play them, just as some folks like to get out their old photo albums. I'm finding that some of my old rock stuff doesn't move me as it used to - and that's partly because my tastes are more sophisticated now. With my current system, I'm conscious of poor recordings and bad mastering - the lack of dynamics and where the bass has been cut to squeeze more music onto each side of the record. An example would be the bands Mott the Hoople and Sad Cafe which sounded great on an entry level stereo but sound flat and lifeless on my current rig. I think the reality is that we tend to think that the system we own is "good" and we enjoy our music at that level of reproduction, even though it may be colored and smeary. As we improve the quality of the components we own, the better records stand further ahead of the average. I have also found that some records sound way better that I remembered them - the detail is revealed in songs that I now enjoy which I dismissed as boring "filler" tracks on earlier systems. Examples are Kate Bush's first album and Emerson, Lake and Palmer's first LP. The old cliche about hearing things you hadn't heard before in familiar recordings is true. With classical music it depends on the recording/performance. I have a great version of the Rite of Spring (Barenboim on DG) which is thrilling to listen to but there are also a few classical records that are gray and lifeless that I can't play. Finally, I now play music that I would have run a mile from. Travelling regularly to the US I made an effort to understand bluegrass (because I have friends who rave about it) and I now play and enjoy the Nitty Gritty Dirt Band - their records really come to life on a good system.

Thanks for your support Bob. I've posted here previously that I was blown away by the La Scalas I heard at the Heathrow show about 30 years ago. UK audiophiles were very insular back then and there is less resistance to "foreign" manufacturers now. Having worked in several US-owned corporations (and consulted to a few more) I can understand how Klipsch found it tough to break into this market. Just because we speak the same language (almost) the psychology is quite different. You would never be successful here by replicating your home market business model in the UK! If someone at Klipsch wants to discuss my thoughts and ideas, I would be very happy to engage. I'm a real fan of the Klipsch brand and would love to see the company build more of a presence in the UK hi fi market.

Thanks Mark. The system was: Galibier Gavia belt drive turntable, fitted with an Artisan Audio Capriccio tone arm. The phono cartridge was the Soundsmith SG-610 strain gauge cartridge/preamp system. Amplification was by Quicksilver Audio - the new(ish) Full Function Preamp and 300B Single Ended monoblocks. Interconnects were Petra Music Boys and the speaker cable was Van Damme Studio Blue. No power conditioning or fancy IEC cables. dhtman

Day two went really well again. I had so many comments that our system sounded closer to real live music than anything else. I must also say that with the system we were using, the Jubilees are viciously intolerant of mediocre recordings. I played some CDs that visitors brought in and some of them sounded terrible - obviously distorted vocals, abysmal sibilants. Sadly the people who brought these along will have decided that my system was poor! Here's a direct quote from "Technobear" on the hifiwigwam board: "The Klipsch Jubilee cinema speakers in the Artisan Audio room were superb. So naturally, effortlessly good. If you have a room that can accommodate these, they are a must hear at the price.The rest of the kit was clearly up to the job. I've never heard of Soundsmith or Artisan or Galibier before but I think we'll be hearing those names some more in future if this was anything to go by. Very good." Warms the cockles of my heart! dhtman

Which brands? Galibier Design turntables, Quicksilver Audio amplification, the Soundsmith range of cartridges, electronics and loudspeakers, and most recently Discovery Cables. There are some outstanding audio innovators in the US who really work hard to push the boundaries and I'm really pleased to be working with this group. Whilst there is some truly woeful audio manufactured in the US, there is also some of the very best. The challenge is the commercial nature of the business - where your product is only as good as your advertising spend! The best products are never advertised! dhtman

This is a sequel to the "My Jubilee Adventure" post from fall 2006. I have been dabbling in turntable/arm/cartridge set up for a long time and the Jubilees were attractive because they are very revealing of set-up errors. I also figured that demonstrating my work would be enhanced with such distinguished speakers. Things have moved on since then and my activity has evolved into importing several niche US audio brands to the UK. To the extent that I have been exhibiting at the London Heathrow Hi Fi Show this weekend. The room looks like this: I have posted announcements on three UK audio discussion boards and there has been a gentle build up of curiosity. I was pretty confident after setting up last night because I knew I had got the cartridge absolutely spot-on. The room is fairly well damped and not too lively. Today though we did have a problem with a buzz, caused by a loose window fitting, but I have to watch the levels and resist the temptation to turn up the wick! Today was the first day, and after the first hour our room was full through til late afternoon. Because the speakers sound different to small boxes (the UK norm) I was anticipating that people wouldn't get it. In actual fact, from the hundreds who came through, I had four critical and conflicting comments, which I think says as much about their preferences as our show system. Several people said they thought we had the best room in the show and judging from the length of time people were staying and the numbers who kept coming back, that's really encouraging. My favourite comment was from a German gentleman who said "It's exceptional. Anyone with ears would tell that. That's if they used their ears that is!" I decided to risk injury and run the expense of hiring a larger vehicle to ship them to the show because I knew they would create an impression. I predicted that people who like their music to sound live and dynamic, with emotion would love them. And those for whom listening to music is a cerebral and analytical process would not. Thanks to the quality of the accompanying electronics and turntable I think we've achieved an outcome where people have recognised the quality of all the components in the system. And they will remember the name Artisan Audio. I couldn't have asked for more! dhtman

I agree about Marcus Miller's Silver Rain - the first two cuts are an awesome demonstration of deep bass. I also use James Taylor's Gaia from Hourglass - tests transient response on the drum roll in the verse after the soprano sax solo. Dire Straits' Telegraph Road and Private Investigation. I like using Emerson Lake and Palmer's first album, side one, on vinyl - piano, organ, drum solos, some very complex arrangements. And Supertramp's Crime of the Century. DMP cds are well recorded - my fave Flim and the BBs is New Pants.

I ran mine active for a year until an audio designer friend persuaded me to build and try the passive networks. I'm very happy with them running passive. Whilst I know the theory that there should be a delay on the HF, the reality is that they sound pretty good without that time correction. R

Mr-b, Richard has made contact and I have emailed you at the address you gave to him. You really don't want to make a decision before hearing the Jubilees. They aren't just another pair of speakers! Richard, you could have safely bet far more than lunch!

I have an '80s Koetsu Black (that I bought original with a Linn LP12 and FR64). I had it re-tipped about a year ago and still use it. The Koetsu line is sometimes described as "lush" although that's an exaggeration IMO. The Black certainly has a very lucid mid range, bass extension isn't the deepest however detail retrieval is very good. I have mine tracking at around 2 grams. If you are buying new, I would steer you towards the Dynavector XX-2 (which I also have). It's a better cartridge - more neutral, deeper and "faster" bass and better dynamic attack on transients and for around the same outlay.

NO WAY!! They are keepers! These are the perfect (sounding) speakers I've been looking for over the last 20 years or so. They tick all the boxes - dynamic, flat frequency response, revealing, detailed, play loud, play whisper quiet. I couldn't imagine anything bettering them. I'm having loadsa fun, re-discovering my record and cd collection anew and trying out a few different combinations of pre and power amps and swapping tone arms and cartridges in and out of my system. The Jubs are very revealing of differences between components. I have discovered one flaw though - with my old speakers I could listen at about 76 dB late into the night after my wife went up to bed. Now if I do the same the Jubs are putting out so much bass energy that it drowns out the TV in the bedroom and I get told to turn it down. Who called these teenagers speakers? d

Sounds like great fun RIchard. I'm pretty sure you could re-create the sound of your Heresy/Jub set up on your Jubs by playing with the filters in the Dx38 - have a rising bass response from about 250Hz down and rolling off a few dB from somewhere between 1-3kHz. I bet Roy could give you the precise numbers! Also interesting to hear about the difference in HF off axis when you're using the Heresys up top (although they look wrong now to my eyes).

Josh, thanks for correcting me. I clearl remember having to adjust VTA for the 103 and forgot which way (probably confused with a tall Dyna cart). I haven't used my 103 for the last year or so - I had my old Koetsu Black retipped and I alternate between that and a XX-2, so the old 103 doesn't get much of a look in. (It was bought as a back-up whilst the Koetsu was away being refurbed). d

Having said you have a 10X5, I suggest you think again about the 103. It does have the punchy dynamics of the Dyna but, with its conical stylus it isn't as detailed. Why not trade your 10x5 for a 20XL? Then you would have dynamics and resolution. Whilst I like the 103, I would rather listen to music through a Dynavector cart.

I have used a DL103 in a modified RB250 and it's a great match. The 103 is a little taller than some other carts, so you might find that the arm is higher at the cart end than the pivot. Slightly above is usually the ideal height, but if it the sound is bass heavy with rolled off hf then you'll need to shim the arm post up a little.

Forgive my breach of etiquette in replying to my own post, however I was leafing through the current magazine and saw an interesting reply to a reader's letter which I thought would be of interest. The question related to a mention last year of a new direct drive turntable appearing soon - the reader wanted to upgrade his Technics SP10 MkII. In response the mag's editor, David Price, names the developer (owner of a vinyl specialist shop in London), goes on to mention that he suggested to Pro - ject's top guy that they should have a direct drive model, and received a reaction that indicated there might be something happening along those lines. Then he went on to the interesting and relevant paragraph that I quote verbatim from page 101: "Back to the present, and yours truly has now shelled out on a Technics SL1200 of his very own. You might remember that Hi-Fi World's own Stewart Wennen produced a design for a Rega armboard mod for the Technics, some three years ago. This is now on sale through Origin Live for £39, and I have ordered one of these. Next, I am going to pull the deck apart, upgrade the mains cable, isolate all the electronics using Dynamat Sorbothane sheets, change the bearing oil to VDH TLF, rebuild it, with an Origin Live Silver tonearm and - cue fanfare - design an outer plinth for it, introducing an extra layer of isolation, which I am having fabricated in black acrylic. This project, I hope, will appear in the next vinyl special issue in April 2007, and then we will put it against some of our favourites, suc as Noel's 401 (if he'll let me)!" I'm not suggesting that it's necessary to do all these mods (there are plenty of reviews on the www that suggest the stock Technics arm is pretty good) - my intention is to point out that the guy who is Britiain's equivalent of Michael Fremer sees some virtue in the Technics table and is not ashamed to say so or put his money where his mouth is. Also his mods are aimed at improving isolation and he's fitting an audiophile arm whilst leaving the drive and speed control stock.

Hmm, I feel like I'm being misquoted here. What I actually wrote, in response to Mark saying that live concert sound can be garbage due to PA limitations was: "To clarify, when I talk about the feel of the live performance, I'm not intending to re-create the sound of a large auditorium in my own room! There is however something very appealing about the crispness and effortless attack of a good horn PA speaker system that I enjoy, provided the levels are below the pain barrier." I also mentioned that I usually listen at around 82dB, about 12 feet away from the speakers. That's a decent level that doesn't upset the rest of the family who would be watching tv, two rooms away. When we got the Jubilees set up, my whole family was in the room, and we celebrated their arrival by jumping around to Queen's "Another One Bites The Dust" at 105dB and we had a ball. Craig, I can assure you that there's no way my system is "tuned to 75-85 dB" - it's way better than that! The great thing about good, high efficiency speakers is that they sound fantastic at all levels. Tonight we had some friends round for dinner and the conversation turned to Elton John I dug out my wife's original copy of "Blue Moves" and we played it at a level where conversation was still possible and it was very enjoyable. Sure it was quieter than it would have been had I been listening alone, however it was just great to have three other people there sharing some classic music played through my system and discussing the memories triggered by the songs. And I don't constantly analyze what I'm hearing - I described how I have learnt to evaluate audio equipment when I am buying/selecting by tapping in to how I feel. If it doesn't feel right then I try to figure out why. I have a set of favorite tracks that I like to hear - they challenge different aspects of system performance - timbre, transient performance, resolution and imaging, etc. and my experience is that not many demonstrations can do a good job on all those tracks. However I have managed to build a system that works well and when I listen to music I hear the music and not the system. The analysis was about how I choose amps, DACs, CD players etc., not how I listen to music.

Absolutely gaspr, I have quite a few live recordings and they rarely live up to the promise - two exceptions Clapton's Unplugged and Joe Zawinul's Brown Street. I organized a few recording projects in the 90s and it's fascinating (tending towards boring) watching the care and attention that musicians and recording engineers pay to getting their instruments to sound "right" on the recording. When I play an LP or CD, I want to hear a voice or an instrument sound as close as possible to the real thing playing in my room. I think those priorities/tastes we have would probably be the same for most folks who choose to buy specialist audio, it's just that the self-serving audio magazines and retailers make it very difficult for us. [8-)]

Thanks Mark. It was fun attempting to work out what it is I look for. Ten years ago, it would have been that PRaT (pace, rhythm and timing) nonsense but I like to thing I've evolved since then! [] Given the choice of amps you put forward, I think I might go the same way too - preferring absence of grain and better resolution over gut-thumping bass (in fact that's what I did about 18 months ago). I should probably reject both and keep on looking though! To clarify, when I talk about the feel of the live performance, I'm not intending to re-create the sound of a large auditorium in my own room! There is however something very appealing about the crispness and effortless attack of a good horn PA speaker system that I enjoy, provided the levels are below the pain barrier. My reference for live music these days is choral concerts and jazz quartets in small venues without a full PA. It's the sound of unamplified live drums and acoustic bass that I strive to reproduce. I know when I have listened to recorded music on some systems, I have felt that sense of enjoyment, the hairs standing up on the back of my neck, that I have experienced at some of my most memorable concerts. So it's my reaction that is important - muddled and boomy certainly don't do it for me.

A perception machine? Maybe so. It's already been acknowledged in this thread that people prioritize differently when buying audio. I'm always amused when I visit an audio show to stumble on a room, usually selling single driver speakers, where there's a bunch of men (and it is always just men) leaning forward in their seats, straining to hear a solo violin or classical voice at whisper quiet levels. I know that SET amps and single driver speakers do some things very well, but for me, the compromises are unacceptable. Having waded through the twists and turns of this topic, here's my attempt to answer the question. My first criterion when listening to an audio system is "Do I feel like I'm listening to a performance here?" I'm not concerned about the level - I'm happy to listen at about 82dB in my listening seat. I want the voices and instruments to sound realistic, the drums and cymbals to remind me of being at a live gig, and I want to hear good separation of the bass guitar and kick drum and sense that I'm hearing with my body, not just my ears. Experience is teaching me that a pair of very good speakers is more significant in eliciting this feeling of a performance than the amp in use. I suspect that the interaction of the amp and speakers' crossovers has a large bearing on presentation. I am turned off by bass that rolls off too high and anomalies in the mid range. So we have accuracy (I guess relative rather than absolute) of tone and timbre as my priority, then there's the sense of dynamics - hearing the initial strike of plectrum on strings or drumstick on snare - is that believable for me? And closely related, is the decay of notes credible? And on complex passages, when it all gets busy, can I still follow a rhythm guitar line or the keyboard fills? There's a Supertramp track with sax and lead guitar playing in unison that less adequate systems blend into one. Closely related to the dynamics, is something I struggle to put into words, it's a perception of passion, the musicians performing at the peak of their powers, sensitive to what each other is playing. This is something I notice most when listening to jazz, the way the band pick up on the soloist's tempo and phrasing. Some amps I have heard (or more accurately amp/speaker combinations) tend to mask or lose that sense of immediacy, others portray it really well. This could be what reviewers call "timing" but I'm not certain that's what they mean, but I remember hearing some very expensive SET amps through Avant Garde Trios that made some great recorded performances sound pedestrian. If we're still doing okay, next, how long can I listen for before I've had enough? Tube amps score well on this for me - is that the absence of grain that Mark refers to near the beginning of this thread? About 10 years ago I had a Naim pre/power combination. I found that within a few months I was listening for shorter sessions and then less frequently, I believe a subconscious reaction to fatigue. I think it's important to have an extended trial of any new amp. SET amps do have a purity and intimacy about their presentation and I have had some great results with my 300bs driving Tannoy speakers, however they wouldn't be my recommendation for listening to rock music. Whilst 300bs have reasonable power output (8 watts) the bass is softish and (in my experience to date) 2a3s and 45s lack the outright power to do a proper job on transients, even on high efficiency speakers (in my experience). Maybe KT88s triode-strapped really is the best compromise? I don't know. I spent about 45 minutes in the Boulder room at RMAF. They were using Wilson Maxx speakers (that's an ugly brute IMO) and whilst the system was quite convincing on orchestral pieces, there was something not quite right about the presentation - it was almost too pristine and synthetic, so I guess that's me reacting to the tone of the system. So there's something about the overall listening experience - akin to the sum being greater than the individual parts. One additional observation. I have kept most of the amps I've owned in the spare bedroom (well you never know when they might be useful!) I'm gradually clearing them out on ebay. When I put a Pioneer A400 into my system to check it stil worked, I was initially quite surprised at how good it sounded. It handled a few of my test tracks quite convincingly and the buyer was happy when he collected it. However, going back to my regular amp, there was a noticable improvement in clarity, like removing a gray metallic sheen. So no real conclusions, and I'm clearly not swayed by the same things as a Stereophile reviewer (I believe that reviewers listen out for a characteristic "hi fi" sound that bears little relationship to how real music sounds). But the perception I experience has to tap into the kind of feelings I experience when I'm hearing music played live.

I can't remember the definitive source, however it's in the FAQ at www.galibierdesign.com and it was discussed at great length in the original "High end tables from Home Despot" thread in Audiogon's analog forum, in the context of idler drive tables having better bass and transients due to higher torque motors specified in the days of 78s when tracking force was much higher. My hunch is that there are so many forces acting on a belt drive turntable (belt to pulley and platter interface; bearing friction, AC motor cogging, belt tension, etc.) that it would be tough to get some meaningful numbers. As an alternative, I would suggest an experiment - just for fun, try making a belt made from unwaxed dental floss and check out how it sounds (dental floss is designed not to stretch) or make up a belt from a length of magnetic tape and try that (if you can get the length/tension spot on). It's not my intention to hijack the OP's thread by evangelizing for suspensionless turntables (I don't believe the topology is superior per se, it's just at the pricepoint the OP is considering the Technics is a better implementation than a Rega P2, IMO. The reasons have already been discussed - complex design, amortized capital costs, etc). I would say though that for anyone who is into vinyl and has never auditioned a solid table should do so at some point, and ideally a design that doesn't have a rubber belt - mylar is best IMO.