Islander
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Posts posted by Islander
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Really, 1 more makes 5. The only way to beat that hand is with 6 or 7 of them. Of course, a Belle Klipsch would also make a great front centre unit. The BK even makes a slightly better TV stand than a Scala, because it's only 18" deep, unlike the 24" of the La Scalas.
Amusingly, Spell Check somehow came up with Skala. Yes, the La Scala plays Ska and Ska-Punk music quite well. On the AV side of ska-punk recordings, No Doubt's ROCK STEADY L*I*V*E DVD rocks really well on La Scalas. That was one of the first DVDs I watched and listened to after I had done the JubScala conversion to my first Scalas. And my socks? Knocked off!
Just a bit of enabling, both ways. You're all welcome!
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11 hours ago, delta88343 said:
Islander:
You wouldn't be placing sound absorbing material randomly, the most important place to put it is on the wall in which your speakers are pointing.
I just ordered 64 sq ft of hopefully real sound absorbing foam from TEMU for just $17. Far and away lower that what sonex costs. Hopefully it's real sonex like sound absorbing foam and just not foam which is near useless. If not, I'll return it and nothing is lost. If it real, it's a major steal and I'll buy more. This is 2" thick foam.
I'm a single guy so I don't have to worry about my wife bitching at me that it doesn't look nice. It looks just fine. I have a very nice looking AV room with a 16ft screen for watching movies from my LED DVD player in-between my K Horns. Concert videos are simply just LIVE. Regular movies, just as good or better than a movie theater.
16 ft? Wow! Yes, that must be amazing. I have a 65" Panasonic plasma TV, which has a great picture, but sitting abut 12 feet back from it is like sitting at the back row of a big-screen movie house room. I'm single, too, but no women visitors have grumbled about the JubScala IIs, which are the usual washing machine size, plus the big K402 tweeter horns on top don't always register as speakers. More than one visitor has thought that they're inactive TV monitors, and that I have a 3-screen array, since the 402s are almost exactly the same height and width as 40" flat screen TVs.
Anyway, the least expensive sound absorbers I've heard of were a DIY arrangement of folded thick towels, that are painted and then framed. You can paint them to match the wall or contrast with it, and of course the thicker the better. That might work better in smaller rooms, though.
As for dispersion pattern, the 402s are very directional, since they're a modified Tractrix design, so that from just outside the room, they're not loud, but when you get in front of them, they're much louder. This greatly reduces early side wall reflections, so that's good, but the back wall is still there, with some stuff in front, but a fair area of bare wall. In the New year, I'll be looking into something. Just what, I'm not sure yet.
Let us know what TEMU is like to deal with. I've seen some flame-fired teacups from them that look really good, but ordering from some online-only firms can be chancy.
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Klipsch made many network changes through the history of the original La Scala, A, AA, AL, and so on, and the name of the speaker never changed, Is that what you mean?
And by the way, Merry Christmas!
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Ah, so it's still the AL-5 in the US? The La Scala III name makes more sense to me, since the AL-5 "name" sounds like a factory designation for a prototype, while La Scala III sounds like a fully developed member of the Heritage family.
What do you think?
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Don't set a price and buy accordingly. Instead, decide which receiver you really want, and if you don't have enough money right now, just keep putting some into your Audio Buying Account every payday until it's all there. Then you'll have what you really want in the first place, and can sit back and enjoy your music without any pesky thoughts about the hassle of trading up model by model, losing money every time. Getting the unit you want in the first place means more time listening to better sound. Isn't that the best?
That might sound odd, but having a separate account (in your bank, in your sock, under the mattress) for your audio stuff is how you can have the cash to jump on bargains when you spot them, and gives you bargaining power, because cash is always king, unless your cards have a big limit and you can pay off the balance in a month or two.
Brand-wise, Onkyo have a name for running hot, which may shorten their life. I've always had good results with Yamaha gear, and I hear good things about Marantz.
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I happened to take a look at the Klipsch.com site, using the link at the top of the page, and happened to notice that the latest version of the La Scala is now called the La Scala III. To me, this makes sense, and gives it a feeling of continuity with the older La Scalas, as well as harmonizing with the other Heritage Series speakers that are named by their version number.
Since I'm in Canada, I was taken to the Klipsch.ca site, so that may be the price in Canadian dollars. At least there's free shipping to all provinces!
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On 10/10/2023 at 9:41 AM, JohnA said:
And, in case it hasn't been plain, the La Scala bass horn is NOT a subwoofer. Subwoofers operate from below 20 Hz to as high as 80 Hz. Some can respond a little higher. A La Scala bass horn will not go much below 60 Hz, even under the best of circumstances. It will reproduce bass tones cleaner and clearer than most any other speaker.
Some folks confuse woofer with subwoofer, and think the bass driver in any speaker is called a subwoofer, rather than a woofer.
Have we heard any more from the OP?
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Coytee, you should have put on that Tull LP, then followed it with Boston, at the same volume setting. That would have been a laugh.
BTW, did the Jethro Tull LP have more dynamic range than other records? Less compression, so to speak? And which Tull record was it? Stand Up? Or Aqualung?
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A bookcase is also a good thing to have on the back wall of your listening room, although it works as a diffuser as much as an absorber. Mine's 6' tall by 4' wide, which will have a definite effect.
Actually, since my system's evolved as far as I want to take it, the next step is room treatment, but rather than install sound absorbing panels at random locations, I'm considering bringing in a consultant. However, as you put the idea, it makes sense. It won't get done for a while, though, since the Must Get Done list is still too long.
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General Klipsch Info or 2-Channel Home Audio or maybe Architectural would be more suitable locations. Or maybe Home Theater...
Maybe I'm not the best person to ask...
Anyway, welcome to the Forum! Or as some others say, Welcome to the Madness!
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On 12/17/2023 at 12:39 PM, Azzaro said:
I enjoy the Moonriver 404 Reference very much.
The music sounds extremely authentic in my room.
A piano is a real piano in the room for instance. Just incredible.
The Moonriver and the Cornwall are truely a good marriage and in love with each other.It's good that you found an amp that seems to have good synergy with your speakers. That matters so much. My system was steadily upgraded over a 15-year period and I knew it had reached a high level of detail retrieval when I could hear a piano sound like a real instrument, a big wooden object about eight feet in front of me, with fine-sounding strings within the wooden body.
Then a friend pointed out that she could tell whether the piano player was facing us or not. If he was facing away, the bass notes came from the left of the soundstage and the treble notes came from the right, and if he was facing us, it would be the other way around. That was another eye/ear opener.
Welcome to the Forum, Azzaro!
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8 minutes ago, 83 LSIs said:
Happens on all forums.
I have Belden 9497 which is 16 gauge, but use it doubled up for @ 13 gauge.
In certain circles I don't mention the doubled up part so I don't have to hang my head in shame. 😁
In my home, you won't find any wires smaller than 12 gauge, including the living room and bedroom systems. When it comes to the bi-amped LS2s, the woofers get 8 gauge and the tweeters get 10 gauge, both in twisted pair configuration. The 8s were bought before I got La Scalas, when their size made more difference. However, they were still good, so I kept using them. The 10s were a step down and were for the tweeters (which are rated at 50 watts max), so that seemed right. The cables are 15 feet long, which may be a small factor. However, the bigger cables cause minimum loss to the amplifiers' damping factor, as well as minimizing resistance/impedance. And that's all I've got to say.
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17 minutes ago, billybob said:
That is why got confused about which LS. The original had a null or void caused by the AL crossover, which caused by measurement or ear, had people going to another network like the AA. Here we are talking an LS-5 being haunted by recordings creating resonance like sound at approximately the same frequency. Or, maybe this is just a twilight zone moment.
IIRC... thanks.
When it comes to that upper bass peak, it seems to be part of the horn's performance. I can only suspect that PWK reasoned that in the compromises that are part of engineering any device, that "loss" was outweighed by a gain somewhere else.
Also, since the newer horns (up to and including the LS-5) still sound like that, it looks like Klipsch gets very few complaints about it, other than from the persnickety members of the Forum, who wish that the Heritage speakers were all perfect, just different flavours of perfect, with the bigger ones having bigger performance envelopes.
BTW, there is a slight difference in the newer (LS2 on) bass horns. The new ones are about an inch longer, making the cabinets about an inch deeper. This is noticeable in that the point of the Vee of the bass horn is recessed about an inch farther back than the Vee point of the original Scala.
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8 minutes ago, 83 LSIs said:
You made a comment about it in a thread from 2010.
"Since that bass peak is caused by the dimensions of the La Scala bass horn"
Yes, some topics seem to come around and go around. Just don't say that you think that speaker cables bigger than 16 gauge might sound better, lol.
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On 12/22/2023 at 10:11 AM, mikebse2a3 said:
What is it about the shape that causes the 148Hz peak… ?
Looking at the Impedance Plots seem to indicate resonances of mechanical/acoustical nature.
Finite horn length and mouth size cause reflections in the horn due to impedance mismatching at the mouth/room interaction leading to what I understand to be standing waves and resonances in the horn.
@Chief bonehead maybe you can clarify what causes the 100Hz - 200Hz region of frequency/phase anomalies of the La Scala models.
miketn
What causes it? Mike, that's beyond what I understand about horns. I just know that the 148 Hz peak seems to be a characteristic of the La Scala bass horn, and is not due to resonance.
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10 hours ago, Dave1291 said:
Ok, anyone else see that big deer in @JohnJ's pic? Bwa ha ha ha! 😂
Some nice shots there @Islander I did about 80% of my shooting in B&W back in the day. Sooo much easier to work with in the lab than C-41.
Lost a SI cover shot the year of the Ohio State - Indiana 2OT hoops win in Cbus because it wasn't in color. Every big gun on the planet was there including SI and they ALL missed the winner. Was truly a hoot cause I was the only one to nail it and they couldn't figure out HOW I knew the ball was going where it did. They ALL thought Jim Jackson was gonna take the final shot. I just told 'em ya have to listen and stand by what He tells you to do. That's exactly what I did that day. Did make 1k from a magazine on it though.
Those aren't my pictures. I think the ones you're referring to were shot by Invidiosulus, but aI could be wrong. I was just quoting him in regards to his shot of the Blue Ridge Parkway.
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On 9/29/2023 at 6:40 AM, Invidiosulus said:
Some B&W pics at the old neighborhood.
Nice. The B&W gives the feeling that we're looking at your memories, not the present day.
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On 12/8/2023 at 12:36 PM, Invidiosulus said:
Sunset off the Blue Ridge Parkway.
Twice I tried to ride the Blue Ridge Parkway (1986 and 1992), with a buddy who had ridden it numerous times, and twice he crashed before we got there, causing us to abort the trip each time. The first time, he injured one leg and foot after sliding on some gravel he failed to notice. After he was seen to at a rural hospital, I had to rent a cube van to transport him and our bikes back to Toronto from upstate New York. Was he unlucky, or do I bring him bad luck? Who knows? So I don't have any pictures from the Blue Ridge Parkway.
Here's something I wrote about bike trips, while I was still riding. At least I don't have to explain to you guys which Parkway I'm referring to.
MISS YOU ON THE HIGHWAY
I saw beautiful sights,
And spent chilly nights,
Camping by the Parkway.
Though I miss you each time
Into the saddle I climb,
Sometimes I must just get away.
Just me and the bike
On that lonely turnpike,
It really does do my soul good.
To let my mind roam,I must ride far from home;
I don't leave you behind to be rude.
I need solitude,
Like my body needs food.
Sometimes I must just get away!
On a twisty mountain ride
I've got to see the other side,
Though we know that getting there is half the fun!
There is nothing like the feeling,
I'm on holidays, I'm wheeling!
It sure feels good to be back on a run!
When I set up my camp,
Park the bike, go for a tramp,
The wilderness is where I want to be!
Though I miss you every day,
In my own peculiar way,
For one more week the highway man is free!
Then I'll come back to stay,
Though it's far, I know the way.
You're my lover and I've always known it's true.
When the highway run is done,
Finished trav'lin, had my fun,
You're the one, the only one, I come home to...
Pat
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When looking at the price of a pair of used Heritage Series speakers, some will ask, "What else can you get in this performance/quality level at around this price?" At that point, they may look like a bargain. When I was thinking over the purchase of my first La Scalas, I consulted with an audiophile buddy whose opinion I respected, and that's what he asked me. I bought them the day after I spotted them, a month later I discovered this forum, and then the madness began, lol.
In a competitive market, if speaker prices in general are rising, Heritage speaker prices will rise with them (a rising tide floats all boats).
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7 hours ago, Last Lemming said:
I just purchased the Technics SU-G700. It replaced a vintage Audio Research Tube amp. I agree with the above. It just has a big full smooth sound that seems limitless in power and clarity. Soundstage is there too though the Tube amp probably has an edge in it there, but only slightly. But where the technics trumps the AR is in the dead silent backgrounds. Zero hiss or noise unless the music has it. Music is soooo clear and nuanced without etch. You’d never know it was a digital amp.
I’ve also used a Decware integrated amp and it just doesn’t have the big authoritative sound the Technic commands.
Is your amp actually digital or just Class D? The two get conflated at times. Class D amps are analogue devices.
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On 12/21/2023 at 7:19 AM, Tom05 said:
I hate the word resonance in this context , seems like such a derogatory word to describe the Klipsch Lascala . Many will get the wrong idea of what this supposed deficiency even means, they may think of a rattle ,like in a cars dashboard or the buzz of dishes resonating in a cabinet . What could be observed ,( if anything ) in this case , is a narrow peak in frequency response . Peaks are caused by many things not always related to resonance, resonance is not a good way to describe the performance of Lascala . I love the voice of Lascala, and Klipschorn , resonance/annoying peak —. I don’t hear it . But I can’t speak for everyone .
Many people confuse resonance peaks with inherent peaks. The shape of the La Scala and La Scala II (and presumably the AL-5) bass horn is the cause of the notorious 148 Hz peak. It is not due to any kind of resonance. Naturally, it's more audible at higher volumes, but it measures the same on both the 3/4" plywood OG La Scala bass horn and the 1" MDF horn of the LS2.
As most of you are aware, I enjoy my modded bi-amped 2-way La Scala IIs. Their crossovers are disconnected, and the EQing is done with an Electro-Voice Dx-38 processor, which also provides time alignment between the woofers and tweeters. The point is that Roy supplied the settings for both generations of La Scalas, and the settings he provided are the same for old LSes and for LS2s. The settings provide for a 7 dB cut at 148 Hz, which gives a flat bass response. If there's a resonance from the less than absolutely rigid sidewalls, I've never heard it. Maybe I don't play my system loud enough, or maybe I'm half deaf. I never heard it when the original LSes were 3-way and used their original AA crossovers.
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On 12/19/2023 at 10:00 AM, JohnA said:
I have 1980 LA Scala's. It appears to me that the bass horn has 2 minor issues. The similar Peavey FH-1s I owned and tested had a similar response rise between 100 and 200-ish Hz. In addition, my La Scala's sidewalls will vibrate, but I didn't notice (and feel it) it until I played "I Don't Need No Doctor" at concert levels. I'm sure I was peaking over 100 watts. Later that session I lost 4 subwoofer drivers to heat! At more sane levels, 100 dB and under, I don't hear or feel anything. The AL-5 La Scalas can only be better, less resonant at high volumes.
I got to spend 30+ minutes with them alone in a room at the KHMA at Subfest. Even at quite loud levels, they were polished and refined and threw a stereo image that make mine envious. Though instantly familiar, I did not notice the "resonance" at peaks easily approaching 100 dB.
Bottom line, everything flexes, bends and resonates, but this is an overstated issue when the speakers are used at home and the resonance can be enjoyable on some music.
See my quote above.
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You could always look into a used McIntosh or Bryston. New Bryston gear comes backed with a 20-year warranty (non-transferable, unfortunately), so you know they have confidence in their products.
As for power, La Scalas seem to run fine with anywhere between 10 and 500 watts per channel. Of course, how much power you need will depend on the size of your listening room, your preferred listening levels, and your choice of music.
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On 12/6/2023 at 12:10 PM, babadono said:
room width 5.6 meters and speaker separation 2.6 meters? So each speaker is out from side wall 1.5 meters? But sounds like you have an equilateral triangle with your MLP also at 2.6 meters. All a little closer than I like to be but.....you have to work with what you've got. Do you have any room treatments to handle the first reflection points? That was a vast improvement in my set up to improve imaging. In fact I probably somewhat over did my room treatments but I am NOT against adding reverb back into the system. Some folks say no way to that being purists and all, not me. After all you are only hearing what some recording "engineer" decided to let you hear.
I think there may be a mixup between the centre-to-centre distance and the outside-edge-to-outside edge distance. There may be somewhat less than 1 metre between the speaker cabinets and the side walls.
That said, why not try moving the speakers right against the side walls? It should enhance the bass, and may have an effect on the treble as well. Of course, it's easy for us to suggest that the OP go shifting those heavy speakers in search of optimum sound.
Lascala cabinet resonance
in 2-Channel Home Audio
Posted
You might be able to correct that 'thickening' sensation with some judiciously applied EQ, assuming you can get an equalizer with very clean sound that won't throw a veil over the whole listening range like my 1980s equalizer did. The Electro-Voice Dx38 24-bit audio processor that was used in the development of the UG Jubilee and the JubScala does not have this issue.
In the list of settings for that electronic audio processor, that replaces the crossovers in the JubScalas, Roy included a 7 dB cut at 148 Hz. That might be worth looking into for your system. As I've mentioned in other posts, that 148 Hz peak is not due to any kind of resonance, because the setting is the same for both the La Scala II as well as the original La Scala, which has the less stiff 3/4" plywood cabinet material. It's a characteristic of that horn.
As to why PWK would continue to build speakers with bass horns that have this characteristic, I surmised that in the compromises that are necessary in the building and voicing of any speaker, he must have decided that this perceived negative characteristic ('perceived' negative, because some owners may like a bit of upper bass boost) was outweighed by a positive somewhere else.
Or, PWK may have decided that, as I've seen this expression from him occasionally, "It doesn't make a dime's worth of difference."