holtrp

That is why I love this board, these old threads pop up from time to time. So, we ended up not building. Land was too expensive and we didn't really find the perfect lot. We ended up buying a home that is about 10 years old. in order to get my dream HT room, I am going to need to completely remodel the basement, a project that isn't going to realistically get done for another 2 -3 years. So I am sort of in a holding pattern here. Currently though, the room isn't all that bad, it is somewhat mishappen and non-uniform, but I have a nice recess that loads my subs up very well, I don't think they have ever sounded better. Plus, it is nice to have an entire room for all my gear, opposed to doubling it as a living space that has to look nice for company. Speaking of the living room and changing the subject completely around, I recently picked up some Heresy I's, cleaning up my Marantz 2235 and came across a Thorens TD 126 MK III turntable, so that has taken center stage in the hobby department. Cheers all.

You know you have a good sub when it makes your vision blurry and you feel like you can't breath. I have never heard a sub in a home that can get as loud as a massive amp and ported box in a car.

Napster might be dead, but like the Hydra, cut one head off and two more grow back in it's place. I never did steal CD's from the store. I was always afraid of getting caught. Is downloading an MP3 really stealing? Is it really on the same exact level of sneaking a CD down your pants and walking out the front door of a store without paying? I don't think so. I always envisioned 'File Sharing' as more of a virtual swap meet where people could simply choose to give copies of there belongings away to each other. Someone paid for that song, and now that person chose to take his own personal property and give copies of it away to strangers over the internet. What is the big deal? And to be fair, music is played for free through FM radio 24/7 in this country and there is no law against recording the music off the radio and using it. I do disagree with pirating, I don't think people should be able to take copyrighted material, make copies and then turn around and sell it for personal gain, that seems a bit disingenuous. But sharing your music with other people, why can't I do that? I paid for it and I should be able to share it with whomever I like. And if I buy a CD that gets scratched, why should I have to go buy another CD? What is wrong with using my personal computer to store a copy of the CD so I can simply burn another copy if / when mine gets scratched or simply download another CD off the net if mine gets stolen or lost? The artist and the recording company got my money, why should the consumer have to pay up twice? So these doped out wipe out ex-rockstars can continue to collect royalty checks every month and keep them in blow and hookers for another 20 years? These rap moguls and rockstars, 10 years after Napster was shut down, are still making millions of dollars every year and file sharing is alive and well, so I don't think it is hurting anyone. The internet, streaming media and solid state technology is eventually going to bury brick and mortar CD stores just like it has the phone book and encyclopedias.

Excellent thread and lots of good discussion / information. I really didn't get into SACD and hi-res audio until about 5 years ago when I built my first house and made a sizable investment in audio equipment that I could actually crank up outside an apartment. When I was growing up, I had cassette tapes. I switched all the way over to CD's in 1992 because of the sound quality and the ease of changing from track to track, by that point and probably a bit earlier, the writing was on the wall. Pearl Jam Ten and Ministry Psalm 69 were my very first CD's. My interest in CD buying lasted for about 10 years. You had to replace a CD every now and then that got scrached, but there was a healthy secondary market where you could get pretty much anything you wanted for $5. I had a couple big books full of CD's I carried around in my vehicle where I could blast MB Quartz speakers, MMATS amplifiers and Image Dynamics subs Then Napster and the internet hit and suddenly, I could have any song / album / artist I could possibly think of completely free of charge without leaving my house. Not only that, Napster and the internet had stuff that you couldn't buy at any store. Dave Matthews concert bootlegs, B-side singles that didn't get wide distribution, mash-ups, club-mixes, etc. Why go hunt for a used CD, one that you already purchased new, just because one song is scratched up when you could just download the song off the internet. Sure, they might not be as clean as the CD, but for $0.00, how could you possibly beat that? Everything could be had for nothing off Napster! Plus, for the first time you could rip your entire library to your computer for a back up and make your own CDs. In fact, I still have a huge amount of MP3 music I downloaded from Napster days that I never even listened to. I was completely hooked and actually still am in a way. I love MP3's for what they are. There is a level of convenience there that is every bit as impressive as a remastered SACD 5.1 mix.

LOL! I thought perhaps I missed something and Monster Cable re-invented / renamed 'speaker wire' Sick cables man. Do you have a website or just on request? Pumped Up Kicks Dubstep = Win.

The consumer demand isn't there. They aren't selling millions of copies of SACD's every month, unlike Apple iTunes, which sells hundreds of millions worth of MP3 music every quarter. Which all comes back to another point I made earlier: How many people can actually hear the difference (or care to, for that matter) between an MP3 recording and a lossless version of the same track? 1 in 25? 1 in 50? Maybe. I seriously doubt 1 in 50 would even be able to explain, in extremely rudimentary terms the difference between lossless and MP3. And if the average consumer doesn't know about the difference between MP3 and lossless, you can bet your bottom dollar they surely don't know (or care) about the difference between full lossless and multi-channel SACD. It should change at some point though. Stereo has been around for decades and it is only a matter of time before it gets replaced with something like full multi-channel or 'HD Stereo'.

I have never heard a Parasound with my 83's. However I have owned the XPA-2, XPA-3 and XPA-5 and have been very pleased with each amp. I bought an XPA-3 first, sold the XPA-3, upgraded to an XPA-5, then upgraded again adding the XPA-2 and two new surrounds for 7.1. I never got to do any side by side testing with the XPA-3 and XPA-2, however there is little if any difference in terms of main channel sound quality between the XPA-5 and XPA-2, they are pretty much dead even in terms of what I can hear with my ears. I imagine the results would be the same between all three amps. The spec sheets and reviews you'll read will prove this out as well. The multi-channel XPA amps are all very comparable in terms of ratings and performance. Customer service at Emo is great. I have never heard of any horror stories, except with the XPA-1, which is a different amp all together than the multi-channel XPA series. Dollar for dollar Emotiva multi-channel amps are the best value on the market, I refuse to buy anything else. Sure a Bryston, Parasound, Outlaw, McIntosh all might sound, look and be better products, but are they really hundreds or thousands of dollars better? I don't think so. If you can wait a bit, I think they run a XPA special sometime around this time of year that will save you a couple hundred. Also look at http://emotivalounge.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=emporium&action=display&thread=22458 The Emotiva version of the Klipsch Garage sale for good used.

If I were in your shoes, I would look for an older (5 - 10 years) 5.1 capable receiver that has been taken care of off the internet. Many of these things come up for sale all the time as people upgrade to the latest and greatest inputs, outputs and audio decoding, even though the receiver itself is in excellent working condition. Why buy new entry or mid tier equipment and pay for HDMI, video up scaling, DTS Master Audio decoding and elaborate inputs and outputs that will never get used when I would venture to guess you could easily find a top tier 5.1 capable receiver used for a fraction of the cost of a new one. At least look on Audiogon, Ebay, Craigslist, pawn shops, thrift stores just to check. If on the internet, find somebody that has kept all the original packaging and manuals, that will be a good indication they have taken good care of the equipment.

Indeed you did. What is wrong with "speaker wire"? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speaker_wire If Wikipedia is wrong, I don't wanna be right.

Apparently, there is a never ending thirst for 'drek' as you call it in the HiFi world of audio enthusiasts. I absolutely love the SACD 5.1 mix of DSOTM and listen to it quite frequently, along with some Diana Krall offerings and even some Bob Dylan. On the other hand, check out Alice in Chains SACD 5.1 mix, which I consider the ultimate SACD trainwreck. But hey, you win some and you lose some. Again, the point being, I like having the choice. I can choose to get cheap-as-dirt MP3's or I can shell out for the 6 disc, ultra-special-double-triple-quad-stereo-SACD-wing-ding-collectors mix. I just don't know what Neil Young is complaining about. If it is all the recording engineers fault, then there had to have been plenty of piss-poor recordings in his day too, because people don't change.

Fair enough. But every mix, remaster, quad, SACD, etc are certainly modern in comparison to the orignal release. And once you've heard it, the 5.1 SACD version blows the original stereo version away. In '73, you were limited. The vinyl LP, the FM radio or perhaps the concert. Now I have multiple selections and many artists are headed in this direction. Pearl Jam just released a Brenden O'Brien remixed / mastered version of Ten. Dave Matthews and Tim Reynolds have their RCMH concert on Blu-Ray in full DTS-Master Audio. Modest Mouse The Moon and Antarctica 10 year anniversary release on CD and vinyl that was mixed / mastered by the artist themselves with new material. White Zombie also put out a different mix of most of their songs with each single they released. Point being, Neil Young might have some strange yearning for simpler times and a recording / distribution menu consisting strictly of LP or FM radio, but me and the rest of the 21st century are overjoyed with the selection and diversity out there.

Please go to Monoprice.com and buy your wire and cables. Monster Cable is a total rip-off in my opinion. Copper wire is copper wire. You are paying an insane amount of money for the little tiny letters that say 'Monster Cable' on the plastic shielding on the wire / cable. Do some cost comparison. I bet you could afford four or more mono-price wires / cables to the cost of just one Monster Cable and for any honest side by side comparison, there is no way you could tell which cable is which once they are hooked up. If you really really really want Monster Cable, at least buy it used and don't pay full MSRP for it. I had an old Yamaha for my first AV receiver, it was a great product that worked great. I think you will be pleased with Yamaha. It probably isn't necessary, but I would stick with 12 ga wire.

Just to play 'devils advocate' here. How many people can actually hear the difference (or care to, for that matter) between an MP3 recording and a lossless version of the same track? 1 in 25? 1 in 50? Maybe. I seriously doubt 1 in 50 would even be able to explain, in extremely rudimentary terms the difference between lossless and MP3. Now consider this. Just because the recording is an MP3, does that make the actual content less enjoyable? Given the popularity of iPod, I would say the answer is absolutely not. And even if (and that is a big IF in my opinion) the quality of recordings has diminished, just look at what we have gained. I would trade 1970's style 'quality recordings' in vinyl only for todays miracles of cheap, fully digital solid state, ease of use, accessibility and portability any day of the week and twice on Sunday when it comes to my music. And as my closing argument, I went into Barnes and Noble the other day and happened to stumble across this. http://www.amazon.com/Dark-Side-Moon-Immersion-Box/dp/B004ZNARH4 A box set that contains just about every single mix-match recording, re-master, SACD, 5.1, quadiphonic, Stereo, Live, DVD-A, Blu-Ray audio / visual, making of documentary, forwards and backwards playback anyone could possibly imagine for Pink Floyd's The Dark Side of the Moon. To the contrary of modern recordings being of 'poor quality' I would say there more quality versions available of many recordings today than there ever has been in the history of recordings. The quality of modern recordings have improved by leaps and bounds, except now consumers have more selection available to them. I don't have to buy the vinyl or buy the cd or buy the cassette. I can get a 96kb MP3 version in minutes for free from the internet, or I can shell out $30 for the SACD 5.1 / Stereo re-master version. God bless Neil Young, but I think when it comes to his quality recording opinion, that guy shot up too much horse.

What is your budget? That is probably the biggest deciding factor. You can spend $200 or you can spend $2000 or you can spend $20k. Plenty of decent brands out there to choose from: Denon, Marantz, Sony, Yamaha, Pioneer. I would recommend planning ahead as best you can. For example: If you are thinking about getting a second TV or projector next year or even in a couple years, you would have to get a receiver with two HDMI outputs or if you really want to be able to watch 3D movies, make sure you get a receiver with HDMI 1.4 and not 1.3. In any case, don't just cruise the internet for a couple hours then go plop down a wad of money on the first thing that catches your eye. In the long run, there is a good chance you will regret it. I would recommend taking your time and really doing some homework. Go to a few AV shops, check out some models first hand and talk to people. See what you like and think about what you might need not just today, but in a year or two. Planning and being an informed customer is the key to building a satisfing system on any budget. I try to narrow what I want to purchase down to a few different models, then I start looking for the best deal on the equipment I want. That way, you can watch the market and know when a good deal / value is presented.

Strictly for used Klipsch gear: Klipsch Forum Garage Sale section, Audiogon, Craigslist / Ebay in that order will give you the best value. I bought all my RF speakers locally from a Klipsch dealer and would recommend you do the same if you are going to buy new. Why? My dealer delivers gear to demo in my home whenever I want for nothing more than a modest deposit / free delivery AND he has always matched the best 'internet deal' I have brought him. You don't have to pay shipping fees and you know exactly what you are getting. If something goes terribly wrong with the equipment, you have a receipt in hand and authorized dealer around to make it right. If you can find a good dealer that knows what the score is, it beats going over the internet any day of the week when it comes to new equipment. Find the best deal on the net for the RF-52 system and straight up tell the dealer to either match the price or you'll go somewhere else. And make sure you deal with the manager, not a salesman. You will also find that the best deals come when the equipment is either discontinued or at the very least a couple years old. The absolute worst time to buy a piece of equipment is right after it hits the shelves.

I would think as the center channel handles more information there would be a noticeable difference, however I didn't do as through of a demo on the center channels. Given my experience with the surrounds though, I would be skeptical of the difference between the 5" / 6" drivers until I heard it. There was a noticeable difference between the RF-83 and RF-63 towers to my ear when I bought.

I would probably pass, save your money and invest in something else, like another SW-15. Just looking at the PRD-10 specs, unless you have a tiny, tiny room, I don't think your are going to be impressed.

I have two dissimilar subs and as far as I am concerned, they work fine together. I will eventually get another f113 to replace my velodyne as it will probably sound better with two of the same kind of sub. In your case, given that they both have passive radiators, that might make them easier to tune. That is probably the biggest complaint I have, you will likely spend hours upon hours upon hours moving, tuning and playing with your subs until you get it just right. I got so sick of it, I just stuck one in each corner at our new house and called it good because I haven't wanted to open that particular can of worms until the dead of winter. It gets to be very time consuming setting up two subs. Also, don't discount putting the sub at your listening position and crawling around the floor listening for the best bass and then just co-locate your subs in that spot. Probably the best 'easy' set up technique out there.

+1000. Listened to the 62's and 52's side by side both in the store and at home before I bought. 62's didn't bring ANYTHING extra to the table as far as I could tell and they were significantly more expensive.

Mentioned this the other day, I have never once heard a speaker that didn't greatly benefit from external amplification, regardless of 'sensitivity' and 'efficiency'. Like many others have stated, you won't turn your volume up as high once you get a amp. I used to clip my Denon listening at +0 db volume level with some material. Now I very rarely turn the volume up past -15 db and actually set it up on the receiver so the volume will not go above -0 db for this very reason. I will have to get my SPL meter out since we moved, but at -15 db at my old house, I don't quite remember if it was 'reference level' however it was uncomfortably loud. As for Marantz vs Emo - I have only heard the Emo but dollar for dollar, I would put my Emo amps up against anything on the market. One of the best upgrades out there in my opinion.

I love my Apple TV for renting movies and streaming audio. The stock DVR from the cable company is good enough for me. We didn't really need the TIvo as we already have the Apple TV for the web accessories.

Youthman, you ever consider upgrading your RS-52? I demo'ed the 62's along with the 52's and honestly couldn't tell the difference so saved some money. I was thinking about eventually picking up RF-63 for surrounds as I think towers would be quite impressive, but then you read about how THX recommends dipoles and I really wonder if it would make all that much of a difference. Probably better places to spend my money. I might have to demo a pair at some point. Also, given the choice between if you were to upgrade your surround, would you go with back speakers or a B set of side surrounds and would you use the RF-52's again?

Hey Dave, I am here in AK also. I can't recommend separates enough. I noticed a vast improvement by adding an Emo XPA amp to my Reference system. I would argue having an amp driven 5.1 system is heads and shoulders above running a 7.1 system off a receiver only. My Denon just didn't have enough horse power for my liking. Sales people and others always like to tell you "Klipsch are just sooooo efficient, they really don't need an amp..." Blah Blah Blah. Bottom line, I have never heard a speaker that did not benefit from better amplification, and it just so happened that Emo fit my budget. -25db volume on my Denon sounds like -10db used to sound with the system being driven by the receiver alone in terms of sheer loudness. Now you strip out the distortion and let the receiver process and let the amp amplify. To my ear, there is way more depth and clarity to every source once you hook up an external amplifier. Mid bass sounds much more rich. No clipping, massive headroom and excellent clarity. Stay away from Sony. Don't even bother looking at 'watts per channel' on the receiver. Just focus on finding something in your budget that will fit all your input / processing needs and leave the amplification to a separate. Check out Audiogon, the Klipsch Garage Sale, Ebay and Emo Emporioum online for good deals.

We had a gas fireplace and crawl space which made running HDMI easy to hide. You'll have to get into the walls or perhaps just run it along the ceiling / wall. No shame in having wires exposed last time I checked.

Alright. I did it. Picked up a set of Heresy I for $410 with only very minor cosmetic blemishes. Being in Alaska, I couldn't let these suckers go somewhere else as shipping from an Ebay / Audiogon / Forum pair, you may as well tack on another $150. The speakers are on the floor and will be staying there. I don't think my wife knew how pretty these speakers were and after seeing how modest and attractive they are, she does not want them mounted up high now that she saw them sitting on our hardwood. Almost like they are just another perfect accessory to her living room. We'll have to keep the kids away from them, but that shouldn't be too much of a problem. I have been playing them for about 5 hours now through my old Marantz 2235 while the 2226b is getting rebuilt. All I can say is WOW! I wish I would have stepped into Klipsch Heritage speakers about 15 years ago. If anyone reading this is ever considering Heresy vs something comparable, dollar for dollar, I would put these 27 year old, $400 Hersey up against just about anything. At some point, I would like to set them up with my RF-83's and do some good back and forth switching (although that might not be a wise choice as I will likely decide to get a full 7 channel heritage system going). Many people complain about the bass performance from these speakers, but I just don't hear it. These speakers sound much better on the low end than just about any other store monitors I have heard. Perhaps compared to LaScalia or Cornwalls, they may not stand up, but on their own they sound great. The bass guitar on Diane Krall sounds amazing, the piano sounds like it is actually in the room being played. I mean, they don't stop your breathing when playing the opening to Welcome to the Machine or anything, but they are still a very capable full range speaker. These Heresy bring a new level of realism to stereo. Thanks again Klipsch!!!