pzannucci

Here are two other good ones. www.mcmelectronics.com www.zalytron.com Peter Z.

Ken, Usually speakers will sound better over time. As far as you asking about the K-horns, I believe the model refers to the trim levels. You used to be able to buy utility versions along with the other B, C, etc. My original K-horns were utility but I later purchased a set of B level, I believe. A little different matching of the top portion of the horn to the bass horn. Someone else might be able to tell you the exact differences though. Peter Z.

There are problems with each crossover design as Klewless points out. Each different design introduces a phase shift along with its attenuation of the frequencies. The phase shift usually depends on the slope of the crossover. The 6db per octave is supposed to be the best for phase continuity. Phase shift is not a good thing but is a side effect that designers have to put up with and work around so that their speaker designs don't sound muddy and introduce odd distortions and holes/peaks in response due to the driver overlap. The several last things that weren't noted (of course this is not all encompassing) but depending on the drivers and their crossover slopes, many times a 12db and an 18db crossover can actually yeild an acoustic equivalent of a 24db per octave slope. So you really can't just look at the components. The components yield the electronic slope. Lastly, you can even have your crossover at the perfect point at where the driver naturally starts to rolloff at 6db or 12db per octave and you will have to factor in the actual driver acoustic rolloff along with the electronic rolloff to come up with the real db per octave acoustic output drop. Bottom line though is no crossover is the best crossover. That is why Klipsch is fighting so hard to build two way systems. This minimizes the crossover interaction (badness) but puts much higher stress on the quality and frequency response extremes of each driver. Hope this helps (or adds to the confusion)... Peter Z.

There are a couple of lines that used to be carried at CC and some still are, that are FAR FROM the bottom of the line. Its nice to see that companies like that will sell higher end products so it give us consumers a chance to buy from a company that deals on price unlike so many other retailers. Peter Z.

If you are looking at SETs, why didn't the Antique Sound Labs KI-22 come to mind? 22 Watts will go a lot farther. The MG seems a bit under powered for dynamics. If I was to go SET, this is probably where I would start. If anyone has one of these KI-22Fox's, I'd like to know how it compares to my Rogue Audio 88 in Triode mode. Peter Z.

Colin, http://www.jeffssoundvalues.com $599 - I also believe the list from what I have seen is $599. Peter Z.

cls72, You might want to find out where it would be best to put the foam. There is a concept called LEDE (live end dead end). Depending on what you are doing and listening in to in the room, might help make the room more appropriately damped. Peter Z.

When the woofer is doing long excursions, you don't want it to hit the board. Give it only as much room as needed. Peter Z.

Larry, If you don't have anything to cover the range that is typically created from the blend of the woofers and tweeter, sounds like you are going to have problems based on the separation of the two. Unless you can bring the horn cutoff way down into the mid/bass, it will probably sound disconnected. Of course that is my opinion. Peter Z.

Keep us informed... Peter Z.

BLOOMIS914, The main change that I noticed when I used rope caulk on my KLFs is less of a plastic sound, especially on the attacks. The horn seems to resonate slightly at times. No, the horns will not sound like conventional drivers then, just better than they used to. I believe what swede did was to put the dampening material in the horn. Depending on the material, this will totally change the way the horn sounds. Peter Z.

If you are going to make something smaller than a La Scala bass section, it can also be shorter in length due to the higher frequency. Also your growth rate will be even faster. I once rebuilt my old Frazier 12" woofer from a Mark 5a into what was called a Dixielander (by Frazier) bass enclosure. It only contained one fold and was about 20" by 20". Fairly easy to build. If you can find some info on that type of build, it might also suit you since you did not have any large panels to resonate due to the fully supported bass section, unlike the La Scala design. Peter Z.

Anything that keeps the horn more in a continuous curve would be good but the effect will likely only be at higher frequencies (as suggested) of the bass driver. Don't know how this would affect response of the system as a whole since it was not designed in the crossovers to handle that change in response. You might like it. Peter Z.

Brian, A rear loaded horn such as this one is typically built to allow the horn to augment the bass response of the woofer. Usually a rear load is used so that a full range driver can be used where it couldn't in a front folded horn configuration. Peter Z.

Hopefully a Klipsch Rep will answer your question. Many times the mids are wired out of phase to correct the response peaks and valleys in the crossover region. Peter Z.

oosting, I believe that you will get slightly lower response but the response becomes erratic. I would think this is why mid horns usually cut off lower than their crossover (we would notice frequency anomolies in the mids easier) but in the bass sections it is likely that we will not be as atune to the output variations. Peter Z.

John, I would be concerned about what oosting is talking about. The throat needs to be a good match to the woofer for the horn to be effective. You probably should use a taper out from the woofer to establish the connection to the larger 24in. passages (smooth from the woofer out). Secondly, the box will have to be fairly deep to get to the 2'x2' opening for the mouth if you just use one mouth. You might want to look at dividing into two and using two openings for the mouth. It will give you a larger effective size, lower resonances due to the smaller large areas without bracing and should also keep the box more managable similar to the Klipsch MC series) . Just some other opinions. Peter Z.

I believe for an exponential design (I lost my book that had all the expansion rates for exponential bass horns) and I believe that the expansion was in the 40%-50% per foot range to an effective cut off of around 45-50hz. There are games that can be played such as the size of the horn is the full size of the horn mouths including an area for the enclosure in the middle of the mouth. So you can build something like a Belle and the mouth size also contains the enclosure in the middle as part of the mouth size. Just that the smaller the openings and shorter the horn, the worse the response is. Peter Z.

As long as you're not going below 50hz or so, the size and length will be containable. The problem you will have is with impedance and how to get reasonably smooth response from a small short horn. The smaller they are, the harder they are to smooth out let alone folding to not have bad response. I have built several in the past and the cuts and assembly can be trying. Hope you have a good cabinet maker and can apply liberal bracing to avoid resonances. Peter Z.

John, The link that Ray posted is one of the links I was going to send you. If you're not a programmer, I have built the full screen version of the open source software on that page, if needed. Peter Z.

John, I will send you, via e-mail if you like, what I have found. I just need to scrounge around. Other than a couple of Java applets I have come accross, I do have a couple of executables that can be used. I have the source code and that is the only way I could figure out what parameters it wanted to come up with its tables. If you just come across source code for an application and you are not a programmer, let me know the link also since I too am interested in something for my future projects. Peter Z.

John, If you do some searching online, you can come across some calculators or programs you can download. They will do the calculations based on various parameters and the type of expansion, be it tractrix, exponential, or others. The only problem with these programs are that they are not real explanatory but it's a start. If it is a bass horn, you'll have to figure out how to fold it. Peter Z.

Tom, They are in my pile of speakers that are not being used anymore. I am attempting to sell them but shipping is a nightmare. I had an Adcom 555II running them but I bought a Jolida SJ801A tube integrated in late December (much better staging with the Jolida). This caused me to shift back and forth between them and my KLF-30s as the mood changes. Right now I am building a set trying to get a mix of the sound of ribbons with the punch of my KLFs (within reason). My ears are telling me that when I have a set of speakers that are capable of unbridled output(KLF-30s), I will listen too loud. I will have to see if I can get close with the home builts so I can move my KLFs to my H/T to replace my Altecs. Peter Z.

It would be interesting to find out how the driver/passive radiator react to stuffing. If you do it, stuff it fairly loosely. It might soften the bass and possibly add extention or neither, just kill the bottom end. Peter Z.

Tom, It will definitely change the intended design but anything you do will change the intended design. I have had two vented boxes, Paradigm Studios(early Studio 100s) and the subs to my Apogee Stages, that have been stuffed. Both were only several cubic feet but capable of going into the lower 20's. If they only had such a small space in the first place, then stuffed it, there had to be almost no volume so the f3 on the box would be very high but they had the capability of going very low. So I guess it really is based on the intended implementation of the stuffing and the box. Peter Z.