HornEd

Well said ardent classic Klipsch aficionados! Sure, I respect anything with a PWK label... but my ears bring me back to the Klipsch classics when it's time to lay my money down. I think those of us who do help preserve the future Klipsch marketplace... folks who hear our rigs tend to remember them all the way to the local dealer... or search the 'net in the case of the 100 odd models that got lost in the marketing shuffle of the last half century. My hope is that any "New Coke" speaker concept won't leave us without a Hope "Classic" to hang our ears on. HornEd

Yes, JMON, I have many great memories from the DFW area... including businesses in Dallas, Irving, Richardson... and a 12,800 sq. ft. showroom in the Infomart with a 60 seat theater which included items bought from Hillcrest. I retired to the Klipschorn comfort of Fort Worth and returned to my native San Francisco when my father fell victim to a stroke five years ago. It was one of those things where they took care of me as a helpless kid... so now it's my turn. So I dropped everything and have been at it every day ever since. I'd like to think my personal contribution is better than what I could pay someone else to do. I am still fond of Texas (my favorite ex-wife lives in our old home atop a hill in N.W. San Antonio), retain some investments there and most likely will return when my work here is completed... or I run out of breath. I, too, have fallen in the multiple post crevice... in fact, my first Klipsch handle was "BargainEd" but something broke and the webmaster found it easiest to have me reborn as something else. Hmm, I think my favorite ex-wife said something like that as well. Anyhow, I couldn't resist taking a cheap shot at your doubly posted rabbit avatar. I have additionally maintained Klipsch enriched environments in Paris, Orleans, New York City and Atlanta... so I come by the HornEd label honestly. Frankly, I have yet to find a great place to buy Klipsch products with confidence built upon the store or sales personnel. Actually, most of my Klipsch purchases have been in spite of store personnel. That's why I enjoy and appreciate this Klipsch board... naive neophytes, persistent posters, unseen but counted lurkers, "Klipsch minions" plus actual and would be "No Lifers" that help us all out along the way. I do not know how much of our comments become meaningful within the Klipsch inner-sanctum... but at least most of us put our money where our posts are... and that should be a statistically viable aspect. Although we may need a "devil's advocate" since the ranking "poster/advocate" is a precise but hopeless Windy City Klipsch addict. Oh, and thanks for the Albuquerque dealer tip, JMON, I'll pass it on to some of my artist friends who frequent the area and, hopefully, stop by the next time the wheels are pointed that way. Good dealers deserve our support... but MSRP is not the way to get it without providing more than most dealers do. HornEd

Hey, JMON, I see that bunny avatar is still multiplying your posts... Sadly, like many things, apparently Hillcrest was a lot better years ago when I got good advice, good product and good deals from them. I don't mind paying a bit more if the advice I get saves me the hassle of a wrong decision. But, if I pay more to get a wrong decision... well... I am just glad this board is here, and that the posters, for the most part stick together, and the company (Klipsch and its dedicated minions) allow us the latitude to provide for each other for what the salesmen are already being paid. Hear us O Klipsch Minions... the hinterlands and heartlands care about finishing the balance of the first 100 years in better style. Tell us how we can help... 'cause we sure will tell you where the bodies are buried. HornEd

Go for it ColaBear! Personally, I have tried 6.1 and 7.1 and prefer 6.1 in my size HT. Using six identical speakers (particularly KLF 30's) brings rewards beyond expectations. Next, I expect to revamp the sub-woofers to better support the KLF 30 sixpack. Oh, well, it is something to do while waiting the debut of the next set of Klipsch "necessities of life." HornEd ------------------ "30 Something 6.1 Herd" KLF 30 Mains KLF 30 Mod Center KLF 30 Mod Surrounds KLF 30 Rear Effects SB-2 Front Effects Subs: KSW-15 + 3 KSW-12's Speaker Support Systems: Mitsubishi RPHD1080i 65" Yamaha RX-V3000 Receiver and more... ... UNDER CONSTRUCTION!

MaxG, the specificity of your description of your "Turkish Guitar & Bass Hole Test" CD may create an instant audiophile demand across the world! Whatever its ethnic derivation, it sounds a lot closer to Pink Floyd than Pink Noise... and that alone makes it worth adding to my diagnostic tool set. Seriously, how many CD's or DVD's have you experienced that reveal as much about bass dropouts as this one does? You have my curiosity way up. How about sharing the title and track info... you may start a whole new Turkish Music Appreciation section on this site. It would be interesting to hear reports on how the music sounds on different rigs... and it would likely be a whole lot cheaper than some other diagnostic tools that lay unused. At least I get a culture shot with this one... it's a good thing! HornEd ------------------ "30 Something 6.1 Herd" KLF 30 Mains KLF 30 Mod Center KLF 30 Mod Surrounds KLF 30 Rear Effects SB-2 Front Effects Subs: KSW-15 + 3 KSW-12's Speaker Support Systems: Mitsubishi RPHD1080i 65" Yamaha RX-V3000 Receiver and more... ... UNDER CONSTRUCTION!

Definitely LESS... My 65" Mitsu RPHD has a "horizontalized" KLF 30 on top a center and KLF 30's on each side without a trace of distortion. Only the crt guns could be affected... the projected image on striking the screen is not affected in any way. Usually, 12-18" distance of the actual crt from the speakers is enough to thwart any disturbance. Your 46" should be just fine. Enjoy. HornEd ------------------ "30 Something 6.1 Herd" KLF 30 Mains KLF 30 Mod Center KLF 30 Mod Surrounds KLF 30 Rear Effects SB-2 Front Effects Subs: KSW-15 + 3 KSW-12's Speaker Support Systems: Mitsubishi RPHD1080i 65" Yamaha RX-V3000 Receiver and more... ... UNDER CONSTRUCTION!

Yo Speedbump! Do I know what you mean! I bought a Mitsu RPHD1080i 65"... at not exactly a bargain basement price... to provide a better picture for my 93 year old mother's weakening eyes. Eventually, with better cables (I used high end Monster component, fiber optic, and S-video cables) and upgraded cable companies to RCN's fiber optic network. And, with some tweaking... I am getting all the picture I paid for... and then some. That is, except for video tapes. However, I did replace my primary SVHS unit with a Toshiba W808 six head unit that records and plays SVHS ET... so, as avman relates, you can record great results on non-SVHS tape... but make sure you use a high grade "regular" tape to capture the fidelity. The big gain you will notice is that the six-head unit provides a smoother source for your Mitsu... not DVD but a whole lot better than you have been experiencing. That Toshiba goes for about $312 not on sale. You are right, like the Klipsch speakers, the Mitsu you bought needs and deserves good input. Hope you get over your "videobump" soon. HornEd

Ah, Mace, it is the quality of three sets of the same speakers in the same 6.1 environment that is important... not the volume! The efficiency of the KLF 30's is so high that you should find no difficulty driving them with what you have with great musicality for the price you paid. Having KLF 30's in every position gives one the potential to have every like sound sound the same from every position... although the sound mixing in the first 20 mins. of "Saving Private Ryan" tends to test that premise. Building speakers depends heavily on the art of compromise... and that translates into the best speakers for your ears may not have what most people presume are the best numbers. While you will not likely hear the difference 2Hz make, you will surely hear the essential character of your new KLF 30's. It's the difference between the spice and the club! Happy KLF Day! HornEd

Hear! Here! Boa! Thanks for the above reference... it frames well this important aspect of bass management. I would go a step further and say that the LFE issue was designed as a cheap upgrade for sub-standard theater sound... and should be rethought along the lines of home consumer realities. The potential for better bass management is just not that far away given what the industry has access to. Maybe we can see some new directions from that innovative Klipsch company and its entry into the amp world??? HornEd

Thanks, JMON, for the "right on" posts... and for proving that rabbits multiply on Tiptoes. HornEd

I think cool Boa is on the right track... and I have owned both speakers... and am a Legend devotee. But, in this case, I would suggest the RF-3 for their versatility in smaller areas and their potential to function as ancillary speakers to a future expanded system. Live long and discover "R_7's"! HornEd (Reliving the stuff of Legends everyday!) ------------------ "30 Something 6.1 Herd" KLF 30 Mains KLF 30 Mod Center KLF 30 Mod Surrounds KLF 30 Rear Effects SB-2 Front Effects Subs: KSW-15 + 3 KSW-12's Speaker Support Systems: Mitsubishi RPHD1080i 65" Yamaha RX-V3000 Receiver and more... ... UNDER CONSTRUCTION!

Boa, I should probably wait to let one of the more engineering-types respond, but here goes. Like most things in life, designing speakers is a study in compromises. Achieving lower Hz numbers often comes at the expense of other, more preferable, speaker characteristics. As you know, I have KLF 10's & 30's, but even without subwoofer help, I much prefer the dynamic range and sensitivity of the 30's to that of the 10's... and the relatively small difference in the low range is virtually indistinguishable in everyday listening. I think some clues toward answering your question are buried in some of the threads that discuss why the "7" series are designed to be better than our discontinued "Legends"... enlightened compromises that bring full and accurate response over broader sonic ranges. Wow, I am beginning to feel that point where I gladly defer to the "G&H's" (Bob & Jim + Phil) and all the "non-paid but Klipsch-biased" critical thinkers out there. HornEd

Gil, it is always a pleasure to read your engineer's crisp and accurate replies. Obviously, maximizing the sound illusion between ones ears is always a challenge of infinite variables... but this "ambiance" vs. "discrete" aspect can be particularly trying. The answer to your above question is a resounding yes in the case of a Yamaha RX-V3000. 6.1 material is played as 6.1... but 5.1 is played as matrixed 6.1 creating exactly the blended rear sound wall that you surmise. Frankly, Gil, I am hard pressed to change receivers or go to multiple separates for HT at this juncture because this particular Yamaha slides between converting stereo to 5.0, 5.1 to matrixed 6.1, and 6.1 as 6.1 without intervention... and having six KLF 30's strategically placed (plus subwoofers at low xovers... but that is another issue) creates a particularly enjoyable HT experience... without annoying tone and timbre shifts on back-to-front pans, etc. I should be noted that in rooms that are sufficiently wide, a side mounted KLF 30 does an even better job as a "surround" since the exponential horn covers a wider area. In their present location and given the room size, I am toying with building a separate box containing two matching KLF 30 horns covering a 180° arc to better enjoy older program material. Having a comprehensive rear sound wall that matches the mains seems to create an improved sound environment not only for me, but has increased HT enjoyment for my dementia afflicted 93 year old mother... for whom this system was designed. On that note, I should add that the front sound wall is also enhanced by mounting a KLF 30 horizontally above the RPHD 65" Mitsu (after replacing the board with the horns mounted horizontally between the woofers) to replace the KLF C-7 (a great center speaker!) to reduce the effect of tone and timbre shifts in left-to-right pans, etc. One last benefit from this particular Yamaha stems from its separate amplification of front effects speakers... which, in effect, creates a high and wide front sound stage (I use Klipsch SB-2's on 6' high sand weighted columns placed 3' outside of the mains and angled toward the primary listening area). This allows the mains to be close by the RPHD1080i monitor for better dialogue orientation. It is interesting to watch the same passage with and without the front effects turned on. In almost every case, the effect is richer with the effects on. A word of caution, however, good front effects need to be carefully set using an SPL meter to achieve their best value. In essence, they create a muted, ethereal sonic background and allow the mains command of the center stage. I have used this system to illustrate converting a less than ideal 14' x 24' space into a worthwhile HT environment during a period of shifting sound mixing technologies. The KLF 30's were selected for the character they bring to an HT set up... and I suspect that the new "7" series might be even better set up this way. All-in-all, it is a continuing search to engineer HT with focused intensity and psychologically comforting sound walls. For two channel music, I prefer other Klipsch and amp/preamp configs... but that, too, is another story. Thanks again, Gil, for all your informative and well meaning posts. I admire your economy of words and your continued attempts to encompass broader ranges of variables than many others use in their opinions. You have earned a "Gil fan" base in the best possible way and give credence to this board above and beyond its Klipsch commercial orientation. Thanks. HornEd ------------------ "30 Something 6.1 Herd" KLF 30 Mains KLF 30 Mod Center KLF 30 Mod Surrounds KLF 30 Rear Effects SB-2 Front Effects Subs: KSW-15 + 3 KSW-12's Speaker Support Systems: Mitsubishi RPHD1080i 65" Yamaha RX-V3000 Receiver and more... ... UNDER CONSTRUCTION! This message has been edited by HornEd on 05-29-2001 at 07:29 AM

Congratulations, Porsche, on your new "ear-tasty" fare and the impending "box launch" of your microtheater appetizer. Enjoy... and welcome to the never ending upward spiral of "joy & circumstance" in one's HT races against what's in one's garage. Don't forget to write. HornEd

As a multiple Legend owner, rgdawsonco, what you say makes a lot of sense to me. If it didn't I wouldn't be pushing the envelope with KLF 30's. You have a point in the "you can't beat displacement" issue but the end value is the illusion that occurs between a given set of ears. Obviously, that crucial test is at least a month or so away for most of us. Sadly, it seems that some manufacturing quality control issues arose in producing the Legend line... and Klipsch research had pushed on to where they believe they can deliver a more precise set of mains for a reasonable price... if larger retailers market them aggressively. About 120 Klipsch home audio designs have fallen by the wayside in the last half century or so... creating a fascinating after-market for every Klipsch owner. Klipsch horns deliver something akin to "truth-in-audio"... so the more households that embrace the "Klipsch Sound"... the more encouragement there is to have better quality audio that we will likely see from every audio facet. Like many others, I would, and have, bought more expensive Klipsch offerings... but I agree with your notion that great Klipsch speakers at more popular price points tend to make the world a better place... probably for all concerned. In view of what they have done for us in the past, as consumers, let us give them a chance to put their sound where our money is... with our venerable Legends setting our personal standard of multi-channel excellence at an attractive price point. HornEd ------------------ "30 Something 6.1 Herd" KLF 30 Mains KLF 30 Mod Center KLF 30 Mod Surrounds KLF 30 Rear Effects SB-2 Front Effects Subs: KSW-15 + 3 KSW-12's Speaker Support Systems: Mitsubishi RPHD1080i 65" Yamaha RX-V3000 Receiver and more... ... UNDER CONSTRUCTION!

It seems that high volume buyers of DVD's (like Blockbuster) may be exerting pressure to get DVD versions that don't include dts as a way of cutting the creators royalty burden... and, perhaps, to increase the amount of extra "stuff" that customers aren't likely to hear on pay TV channels. I always seem to get an extra measure when I listen to the dts version... and I let the DVD rental staff know when I buy a title somewhere else to get the dts version. The more of us that do that, the more likely we are to have dts (or something better) between our ears. HornEd This message has been edited by HornEd on 05-28-2001 at 01:57 AM

Amen, JoshT! Unfortunately, most higher volume outlets cannot afford to have their sales staff taking the time that high end stores used to do. Any salesman taking the time to get the knowledge and impart it to the customer would likely be replaced. Klipsch does have a sales training "dog & pony show" that makes the rounds... and that helps some. But, frankly, the problem seems to be that closing techniques are what managers want to hear... and moving boxes is what they want to see. Be happy if you can wangle an honest estimation of what's really available (after all, their first priority is to move old stock) and, maybe, a little extra discount for being a good customer (i.e., closing yourself). Hopefully, there are still a few good stores out and about... Obviously, Klipsch had the 20/20 foresight to build a better quality web site and free ups some heady Klipsch staffers to come to our rescue... plus all the willing to help consumers who lurk looking for some posted question to tickle their multi-starred fancy replies as they weave our threads into a "No Life" to call their own. And there is something very special about 1-800-Klipsch with the laid back answer man Trey who routinely makes sense of seeming chaos. Yessiree BobG, has the answer for you and me... Most often, it even fits! And with a dependable bias and acerbic turns of phrase... he's a journalistic cut above most company speaker tweakers. I don't know about you, but I try to steer salesperson abused potential Klipsch customers to this web site. I figure the more new customers we send... the longer the folks in Hope will be cranking out fun stuff for generations to follow. I do that because, in the main, Klipsch has attempted to provide more real customer value than most other speaker manufactures of similar background. Around the name brand genius of Paul and Fred have gathered folks who give a damn... take in a trade show and you too can discover another Klipsch difference. O.K., so in a half century they have abandoned over a hundred speakers in the quest to bring us what we want at a price we can afford... and they can afford and stay in business. Thanks to the Internet and both sides (e.g., consumer & company) of the Klipsch customer attitude, we have a place to engage in dialogue with the company and with each other. In the process, more knowledgeable and dedicated Klipsch customers are nurtured... and that bodes well. As in any business, only things that work merit more time and money devoted to them. So, it is in everyone's interest to invite more people to this BB. rah! Hmmm... now to sneak off to some other post and feather out a Boa tale. HornEd

Norman, after reading the above encapsulated review of your LaScala situation... I think you have resolved your personal road to "everything." Enjoy! We need a positive DVD reviewer with a healthy Klipsch outlook. HornEd ------------------ "30 Something 6.1 Herd" KLF 30 Mains KLF 30 Modified Center KLF 30 Surrounds KLF 30 Rear Effects SB-2 Front Effects Subs: KSW-15 + 3 KSW-12's Speaker Support Systems: Mitsubishi RPHD1080i 65" Yamaha RX-V3000 Receiver ... UNDER CONSTRUCTION!

Ye gods and little fishes, mace! Sure the RF-7's sound wonderful... that's why Klipsch is building them instead of the Legend series. Klipsch has designed and build over a hundred different home speakers they no longer manufacture... and KLF 30's remain as some of the most revered in homes across this planet... let alone in West Lafayette! Besides, you bought them at a bargain that you are not likely to get on the RF-7's for many years to come. You have stepped across the abyss and ordered one of the best "crank-it-up" speaks known to man or beast (yes, it can crank so loud it has been known to do that to some wives ). Think good thoughts... and be ready to enjoy every day that which you have only had an earful from time-to-time. Then... only then... should you sell your car, the cat and your wife's rings to buy the Klipsch of your heart's desire... and take on a night job to get a custom built room to put it in! Then again, you can continue worrying. If so, please pass this note to your wife so I can have a shot of buying the KLF 30's after the funeral. HornEd

Congratulations on putting your toe in the waters of Klipsch ownership! Now, quit pounding the "woulda, coulda, shoulda" and RELAX mace... and save the shipping containers! At the very worst, if you got a good price, you can sell those harder to find KLF 30's to someone who cares! You have had the benefit of hearing higher rated and lower rated Klipsch speakers... and personally, I would have not bought three pairs of KLF 30's if they did not do the job for home theater... and music. The centers, subwoofers, surrounds, front and rear effects speakers are more for pulling home theater entertainment from DVD's, cable and the like. You can enjoy a lot of music for the money and the footprint with KLF 30's... and it is great "Klipsch breaking" technique for the wife. With care and feeding... and sending her out for a higher paying job... there is no telling what wonderful Klipsch speakers may come into your life! Yes, put the spikes on to reach through the Berber to the bedrock of your floor and rock on. It's a spurious vibration dampening kind of thing. No, the 30's are not shielded but that is usually not a problem when they are properly located to give you the proper stereo image. If they do prove to be a problem, post the problem and there will be lots of BB folks that will be glad to give you specifics. You will quickly lose your concerns over the 2Hz difference in the bottom end when you hear how sweet the rest of the KLF 30's sound in handling your music. If you liked the KLF 20 on music, have no fear, the KLF 30's are definitely a step up. As for the xovers... xover that bridge when you come to it... and post again if it really is a problem. Yes, they are really 8 ohms enough for you to not mess with the switch. Other threads on this BB tell you why. Remember, you bought KLF 30's on a bargain... not 50th Anniversary K-Horns at a collector's premium price. The buyer of one should not expect all the benefits of the other to be included in the deal! All things considered, you could have done far worse in price and performance than bringing KLF 30's into your aural life and wedded bliss. Enjoy! HornEd ------------------ "30 Something 6.1 Herd" KLF 30 Mains KLF 30 Modified Center KLF 30 Surrounds KLF 30 Rear Effects SB-2 Front Effects Subs: KSW-15 + 3 KSW-12's Speaker Support Systems: Mitsubishi RPHD1080i 65" Yamaha RX-V3000 Receiver ... UNDER CONSTRUCTION! This message has been edited by HornEd on 05-29-2001 at 01:13 PM

Gee, Mikekid, the avatar just doesn't do your ears justice. You need to appeal to a higher authority like BobG's tinsmith & avatar maker. HornEd

Thanks, Mike. The problem with being a retired CEO is you do not have the dedicated staff that once made all the really fine things possible. I knew they must be there but I just did not find them. So much for self esteem this Memorial Day weekend. Somehow I don't feel as old as I must have become... but I do know the feeling of gratitude toward the folks that help one another on this board. Thanks again for being one of the ones who makes it so. HornEd This message has been edited by HornEd on 05-27-2001 at 07:44 AM

Sounds like a plan, ColaBear. You might want to take a listen to the new K-sub that will be out in a month or so. I like the KSW-15 for the money and for the floor firing aspect. The new one has the added benefit of a passive radiator and side mounted controls... and a considerably higher MSRP. I already have a KSW-15 but will look at the new Klipsch plus the new higher end units by SVS. I like the candor and work ethic that "sub-human" Tom Vodhanel puts into his products. As you may have picked up from other posts, I am doing a study on bass augmentation of cognitive awareness, and therefore have about a dozen different subs to play with. Just out of curiosity, how big is the area in which your HT "room" is located and how high are the ceilings? I am thinking along the line of cubic feet and standing waves... which are always worth reflecting upon... particularly when you are adding a sub or two. It's strange that no one else has joined this thread... even for a derisive comment! May be there are more people out honoring Memorial Day than I thought. Be well... or at least keep your ears up. HornEd

Glad to be of service, ColaBear... here's a few more thoughts before I take mother to brunch. On the second sub, I would recommend that you put it right behind the couch (if there is room given the scale factor). That would give you some wall for it to work with. I would run the rear set of KLF 30's off the rear sub. Sound above about 80dB tend to have directionality... and anomalies in most subs give additional directional clues... and so, a rear sub, helps the HT illusion you are enhancing. Sorry, I was not clear enough. Yes, I would angle the rear effects KLF 30's acutely toward the center. Aim your horns like a shotgun at a wild turkey with the turkey sitting in the prime listening area. That, and distance, is why your side surround 30's work so well IMHO. The overlapping effect of the rear horns should help fill in the center... as will a second sub in the middle. Sorry, my gourmet bent suddenly outweighs my Klipsch comments! HornEd

Since the web site was updated, I have not been able to find specs on the Legend series... particularly the KLF 30. Will they be available anytime soon? HornEd