USparc

---------------- On 8/15/2003 10:37:53 AM lancestorm wrote: I guess I was just worried about lower frequencies (below 80 Hz) going to the speaks. I listen to music and movies very loud and was worried about the speaks keeping up. ---------------- You should be more worried about Harman Kardon AVR525 then the RF-3's. Can it deliver the lower frequencies. By setting all 5 speakers to larg the HK has to do more work. A sub and setting all speaks to small (but indeed what is the point of having floorstanders in the first place) may result in better sound as the receiver is relieved. Besides the horn tweeter is more vurnable then the woofer certainly when driving the HK into clipping.

I just remember that I somehow did a fix for this some time ago. Sometimes the humm was indeed annoying. I discoverd that the humm was comming from the transfo inside the sub. It is vibration on the cooling heatsink. I just tighten the screws which it holds. It never annoyed me since then. Now it humms just a little if you put your ears next to it. Not noticeable from 1 meter away. It will however be better to place the sub further away. Don't place it next to you. It will be more annoying. Place it somewhere in a corner.

---------------- On 8/15/2003 11:04:41 AM STL wrote: So did you stay with the same component values (and just upgrade to higher quality parts)? Also, how did you get those braces inside the factory enclosure? ---------------- No I didn't stay exactly with the same values. Klipsch uses none standard values that are not available in high quality components. I wasn't planning to combining components to get the exact values to keep the crossover simple as possible. So I picked the next lower value for each component. This will increase the crossover point a bit (from 1975 to 21xx) which is in fact desirable to reduce the stress on the horn. (See RF5 an RF-7 crossover points) About the braces. Well, the woofer holls are just as wide as the internal wideness of the cabinet. The brace panels can be inserted and glued easily in the cabinet. To get a complete structure it is quiet a job to get things in position but it is possible.

Indeed what is up with the new design of the new ref series. I don't like the new design. But why are they cheaper?? I think it has to do with the design of the motorboard. The horn is constructed in this motorboard which gives me the feeling that the motorboard is not MDF but a polymer(kind of plastic). Can someone confirm this!!!! This is probably easier to assemble ... . Soundwise it would be a bad thing I guess. I would recommend the RB-5 (even RF-3) certainly with RF-3's.

I have also a KSW12 and it doesn't humm. Ok, just a little but not noticeble from a few meters. How is it connected?? Cable type?? Cable can pick up signals. Also the connections need to be proper connected. To what is it connected ???? Receiver can put noice on the line.

Use only a sub when the information is comming from a discreet channel. It is difficult to blend a sub with other speakers for stereo playback. They have to be matched so no abnormal behaviour occures at the crossover point. This is however very difficult. So for DD5.1/sacd multi a subwoofer will make a difference. The question small or large depends. 1) All speakers to large + subw results in no signal processing by the receiver. 2) All speakers to small + subw results in a relieve of the amps in the receiver, but there will be signal processing to cut of the sound at the crossover point and rerouting to the sub. So if your receiver is capable to drive your speakers I would opt for the first one. That is also my setting at this time.

I checked the new RC range. The only real center speaker left is the RC-7. The other ones (RC-25, RC-35) have strange design. The drivers are fixed to the motorboard which is fixed with screws. Is this easier to assamble or to fix if one of the drivers fails. Anyway it doesn't look right. Also the openings on the sides (bass-reflex???)have a strange form. I think those are to be blamed of the hollow sound. It seems that klipsch opted for looks above soundquality. This new design is present in all reference speakers except for the R?-7's and RF-5's. I should first check them out (when they are at my local dealer) but I have some serious questions about this design.

Ok, here is LF filter. It is huge due to the CFAC. Thanks Dean to recommend this one. It did put a SMILE on my face. This brings me to the result. It is just a night and day difference. The sound is clean not stressy. Every note is produced more accurate. Now I have to play all my favourite records again .... Rear RF-3 and RC-3 are still waiting for their new crossover, but soon ... . I will order the components next week.

Yep I finished already 2 of my RF-3's with new crossovers!! Here is a picture of the HF filter in the horn compartment. I will continue in the next post (need to add another picture)

Pioneer to harsh ??? Denon and Yammies are harsh. But it is something subjective. Still my dealer hardly sells a denon or yammie with klipsch speakers!!!

Don't go with denon. Certainly not with klipsch speakers. Onkyo is fine, but pioneer is even better. Otherwise go with separates. If you want really quality and don't want to do any upgrades by yourself check the b&w nautilus (802 or 803) range.(You need a very powerfull and good amp) I still can not recommend the heritage line of klipsch since I never listened to them. I only have seen the klipschorn. Huge speaker (doesn't look like one) that needs a room build around them and not the other way around. The klipsch reference line can use some upgrades: bracing and crossover. About subwoofers: don't. Unless it is a discrete channel like dolby digital or sacd mulitchannel.

The Philips DVD-963SA is a very good player hardware but lacks in the software. That's why it is software upgradable. Fixing bugs and adding new ones to keep you playing with software versions.

---------------- On 7/31/2003 4:33:42 AM marksdad wrote: unleash, he he he he ha ha ha ha, this caption still makes me giggle ---------------- I think it is very obvious now that it makes you giggle. But is that all you have to say???

You are right on the DCR value of the LF inductor. I just measured it. 0.3 ohms. The CFAC on intertechnik has 0.2 ohms. But would the 0.3 ohms add any difference in the first place?? The DCR of the 2 woofers in parallel is 3 ohms. Ok, I dont want to change the values klipsch uses, but those values are not the common values. So to not end up combining components I just take the value below the original values. Why below. I think it is better to raise the crossover a bit then lower it. Ill probably order the components this week.

---------------- On 7/27/2003 8:46:05 PM DeanG wrote: I didn't really mean I didn't care what you thought, I apologize for that. I've been tired and pretty run down lately. ---------------- Dean, apologize accepted. No big deal. ---------------- On 7/27/2003 8:46:05 PM DeanG wrote: Did you measure the DC resistance with a multimeter of your HF inductor? ---------------- No I didn't yet. But I think it would be not that much ( in the range of 0.2-0.6 Ohms) as it is a (iron,ferite) core inductor. The windings are less, so also the resistance. The thing is that the core adds distortion!! Maybe I'm wrong here and is it different. (I have to measure) Did you do some compensations in the HF to balans the efficiency? I mean the first resistor in the HF. ---------------- On 7/27/2003 8:46:05 PM DeanG wrote: The improvement of putting a CFAC on the woofer is going to really put a smile on your face. Bring on the SLAM. ---------------- Really!! Ok, then I have to add $15 for each speaker. They are pricy!! But a smile on my face is worth a lot more ;-)

justin_tx_16, You did some nice detective work!! LOL

Dean, I will repeat it. The loss in volume is minimal. Besides how far are you going with alignment and Q parameters if your enclosure is not rigid enough? It is not only audible at lower frequencies but also a good deal in the midrange. I heard it especially with voices. They dont seem to come from the speakers anymore and are placed in the room. This was obvious when I finished my first RF-3 and compared it to the other one. The sound produced by the original RF-3 was still at the enclosure while the sound from the braced RF-3 was decoupled from the cabinet. You would be surprised what a rigid enclosure can do. But Ok, You dont care what I say. (Almost forgotten) Back to crossovers. I do think that my RF-3 can benefit from a better crossover. So I did some research, talked to people about crossover components. For now I ended up with components of http://www.intertechnik.de For HF filter: A MOX resistor for the efficiency adaption. AUDYN CAPS MKP Air coils 1mm. For LF filter: Air coil 1,4 mm AUDYN CAP MKP This would cost me about $30 for the components of one speaker. Let the fun begin ... . Dean, was there a big improvement from going from an air coil inductor to a copper foil inductor in the LF?? As far as setup goes, my pioneer is a decent receiver with very good amplification. No need for more. With the pioneer the RF-3 s are far from shouty. With Denons I notice it. They do tend to sound the RF-3 like ice. So cold and bright.

Aha, vibrapods. Check out http://www.vibrapod.com/

---------------- On 7/22/2003 3:09:21 AM arena wrote: I have a pair of Klipsch RP3s and while I'm completely satisfied with how they sound I was wondering if I could get any significant improvements by modifying the internal wiring or replacing certain parts of the crossover (I've seen a few posts about this recently). I'm on a relatively moderate budget and don't have much experience with a soldering iron. Thanks for any suggestions. ---------------- Internal BRACING.

For capacitor type overview: http://netcity1.web.hinet.net/UserData/shiawei/new_page_1.htm Indeed the RF-3 doesn't need a notch filter (I think). Like DeanG said, if the RF-3 needed one their would be one. But you never know until you actualy take the horn to a frequency generator the take the frequency response. Maybe klipsch left it out to spare some components. We however could discover this by checking the RF-5. Does the RF-5 have a notch filter on the horn filter?? Another thing is the crossover frequency itself. I see that klipsch raised the crossover frequency. If you check the RF-5 which has the same woofers as the RF-3's but different horn(think driver is the same). RF-5 xover 2500Hz. RF-3 xover 1975Hz. So the woofers have to do more in the RF5 then in the RF-3???? Even in the RF-7 (xover at 2200) which have even larger woofers the crossover frequency is raised vs the RF-3. There is some margine here for the woofers. Why do the new horns need to do less?? There could be an improvement to raise the crossover of the RF-3 to reduce the stress on the horn. In time I will figure it out.

Yes, build separate boards for them. (B&W does this in there nautilus 801) I see you are not into the biwiring and separating filters for the drivers. But the statement It's not until you start working on this stuff that you realize how stupid concepts like birwiring are. is a very strong one. So enlighten us with your experience in this to clear out the biwire /not to biwire issue. Oeps, here we go again? Maybe it is better to go to the thread < Bi-wiring -- difference worth the trouble?> on the technical forum. Tell me your thoughts on my reply that explains what biwiring does.

dubbel post

Aha, you mean Manneken Pis. Not that impressive. Dit you see the atomium. That is impressive if you see it the first time. http://www.atomium.be

Maybe I'll do the same. First shopping arround for the finest components to calculate the total cost for this upgrade. What is your opinion on separation the xover for highs and lows??

Nice looking speakers, but isnt horn loaded. Strange tweeter by the way. Just looked at the specs. 88dB that would be more close to dynaudios. (oeps) Go shopping for a good amp with some muscles to be able to drive them over 105 dbs, if they even can handle it?? Not to mention what happens with peaks of over 110db. As for size. They are even bigger than RF-3s. So whats up with placing issues?? If RF-7s dont fit in the room you can go with RF-3s or RF-5s. I would however certainly be tempted to go listen to them and inspect them when there is an opportunity. They seem (like on there website) to have a very nice build quality external as internal!!