StephenM

That's a big, heavy baby!

Heh, I'm having a hard time explaining why I want rear speakers now. "But you already have rear speakers, and they work fine....."

For what its worth: http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=system&id=47&mset=45 Not horrible measurements considering its price bracket, and decent output from 32Hz on up. It actually holds its own pretty well in terms of output against the much more expensive Emotiva Xref-12 (not entirely surprising given the design of each). I'd wager Sub's Emo Ultra 12 would rate pretty close to the Xref-12. I'd also expect it would sound a bit cleaner than the BIC. http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=system&id=63&mset=66 I'd also consider the Hsu STF-1 and STF-2 for a bit more cash, mostly based on reputation.

Good point. I haven't seen a hello from this so called "Alex" yet, if that's even his real name.

What in the specs gives you that impression? The RF-83 is 1dB more sensitive and is rated to handle 250 watts vs 175 of the RF-63. That equates to a grand total of 2.6dB difference. If you want "a lot" more volume, you need a much larger speaker. Like Jubilee sized... Out of curiosity, what are you using for a subwoofer?

I would stick with the RC-62II. It's not a terribly difficult load for your receiver and it is designed to match your RF-82IIs sonically, whereas the 64II is not.

Two more for good measure: http://www.soundstagemagazine.com/measurements/ascend_cbm170/impedance.gif http://www.soundstagemagazine.com/measurements/energy_veritas_v24i/impedance.gif

Not exactly. This is what an impedance curve looks like: http://www.stereophile.com/images/archivesart/K15FIG1.jpg The subject in question is the RB-15. This curve will not change with relation to amplitude unless thermal compression becomes an issue. While you can tell a few characteristics about a speaker by looking at its impedance curve (ported vs sealed, tuning point of port, etc), I would hesitate to say there is any special correlation between the frequency and impedance.

A crossover at 80Hz only helps if the impedance dip is below 80Hz. There is no guarantee of this, and in fact, from what I've seen of Klipsch speakers, I'd bet against it. http://www.hometheater.com/content/klipsch-reference-rf-83-speaker-system-ht-labs-measures http://www.hometheater.com/content/klipsch-reference-rb-75-ht-labs-measures http://www.hometheater.com/content/klipsch-rb-81-speaker-system-ht-labs-measures http://www.hometheater.com/content/klipsch-reference-rb-61-ii-speaker-system-ht-labs-measures In every one of those speakers measured, (12 in total, 4 mains, 4 centers, 4 surrounds), none of their impedance minimums were below 80Hz, instead being between 100 and 300Hz for the most part. As for how much of an impedance dip I'd expect or whether I'd expect to see one at all, your best bet is to ask Klipsch about your specific model and work from there. Anything else is just a guess.

If you're satisfied with the performance of your system, you wouldn't. However, lets throw one monkey wrench into your calculations: an impedance dip down to 2.8 ohms (comparable to the RF-7). At 50 watts into 8 ohms, you're talking 20 volts and 2.5 amperes. Entering the 2.8 ohm dip, voltage remains 20V since voltage sensitivity hasn't changed, but amperage climbs to 7.14 and the power jumps to ~143 watts. That's a lot for most receivers, especially if you are conservative and expect mutliple channels to peak at once.

It's not really a matter of distortion, but one of noise. I also wouldn't necessarily say that receivers perform especially poorly in this regard either as compared with separates. A little comparison: look to the 100 milliwatt figures: Pretty good, as one should expect from Bryston http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/images/stories/2010/september-2010/bryston-3b-sst2-amplifier/bryston-3b-sst2-power-amplifier-thd-plus-n-vs-power-8-ohms.gif http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/images/stories/2010/september-2010/bryston-3b-sst2-amplifier/bryston-3b-sst2-power-amplifier-thd-plus-n-vs-power-4-ohms.gif The Emotiva XPA-2 for comparison http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/images/stories/2008/december-2008/emotiva-xpa-2-amplifier-thd+n-vs-power-8-ohms-large.gif http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/images/stories/2008/december-2008/emotiva-xpa-2-amplifier-thd+n-vs-power-4-ohms-large.gif A $1900 Integra receiver. Dare I say it bests the Bryston at 100mW??? http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/images/stories/2009/june-2009/integra-dtr89/integra-dtr-8.9-receiver-thd-plus-n-vs-power-8-ohms-large.gif http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/images/stories/2009/june-2009/integra-dtr89/integra-dtr-8.9-receiver-thd-plus-n-vs-power-4-ohms-large.gif A $900 Onkyo receiver. Doesn't give Bryston owners any need to worry, but it looks rather good compared to the XPA-2 http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/images/stories/2009/march-2009/onkyo-tx-sr706-receiver-thd-n-vs-power-8-ohms-large.gif http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/images/stories/2009/march-2009/onkyo-tx-sr706-receiver-thd-n-vs-power-4-ohms-large.gif An entry level Onk. Guess they showed mercy on it... http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/images/stories/2008/november-2008/onkyo-tx-sr-576-receiver-thd+n-vs-power-8-ohms-large.gif http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/images/stories/2008/november-2008/onkyo-tx-sr-576-receiver-thd+n-vs-power-4-ohms-large.gif

Seems reasonable enough to me.

Certainly no harm in testing it out and seeing what you prefer. I have heard neither the 64 nor the 64ii, so you can take my comments with a grain of salt. I'd expect that since the original 64 was designed specifically to match your 83s, it probably wouldn't be worthwhile to go for the 64ii which was designed to match the RF-7ii and has a different tweeter than your mains.

FWIW, the -3dB at 73Hz is a quasi-anechoic figure. In an actual room, -3dB at 60Hz would be a fairly reasonable expectation (and Klipsch rates it for -3dB at 62Hz). However, I'd agree that I personally wouldn't run it any lower than 80Hz for the simple fact that you don't really gain anything, assuming your sub is up to snuff with the rest of your system.

Yes, but if you go back to Peter's post, it is unlikely to help in this case; since the OP is using his subwoofer for music, the receiver will convert the analog signal it receives from the outboard DAC back to digital to apply bass management and then convert it back to analog with its DACs. Personally, I'd rather have the benefits of a subwoofer with music than a fancy DAC vs the DAC in the HK 3600, but YMMV.

80Hz is always a good starting point. The 64 doesn't dig especially deep (-3dB @ 73Hz, -6dB @ 59Hz quasi anechoic), so I wouldn't go less than 60Hz. http://www.hometheater.com/content/klipsch-reference-rf-83-speaker-system-ht-labs-measures

Indeed; at 20Hz, the newer, costlier, and more powerful Emo XRef12 only manages 81dB of output with 18% THD+N at 2 meters ground plane, RMS per CEA 2010 protocol. The PB13U managed 110.6dB with 5% THD+N under the same circumstances. The PB12+ is estimated to put out 107dB. To bridge that 26dB gap with the PB12+, you would need a stack of 20(!!!!) XRef12s. http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/subwoofers/x-ref-12/LXREF12CEA2010CHART.PNG/image_view_fullscreen http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/subwoofers/svs-pb13/SVSPB1320HZCEA2010PASSCHART.PNG/image_view_fullscreen

I expect you've read the Audioholics review on the FV15HP. It performed very well in the shootout with the Hsu VTF-15H and the prior version of the SVS PB12-Plus. For $1200, it seems like a pretty solid value. Also Rythmik seems to get a lot of buzz about their sound quality, which is always a bonus. Unfortunately, I don't know of any good 3rd party measurements on the A5-350 to give much insight there.

You would, since you're a scientist and obviously biased [A]

Congrats! Enjoy it in good health!!!

Ultimately, it comes down to what you think gives you the best performance for your purposes. I would expect that you can get an audition of a Velo 15+, and I would also expect given your location, that if you put feelers out there, you can get an audition of the PB13+ as well. Get a little personal time with both, and go from there.

Musicality is unfortunately an entirely personal and subjective aspect of performance. However, in my experience, many issues with musicality can be traced back to errors in setup or room issues. Based on raw measurements, the PB13U gives up very little quality-wise. It doesn't have PEQ, but it does have a parametric EQ. Probably forgoes the expense since most receivers and processors include Audyssey and similar auto-setup systems,

Can't claim to know anything about that, but the same rules apply in the end.

Hey Sub, Not in the market just yet (got to let the wallet cool down after the X-mas season), and I'd actually be looking for bookshelves (just my personal preference). Thanks though! The Insignias actually do pretty well though, all things considered.

Well, the system is now complete*. On the front stage, my trusty RF-5s are paired with an RC-3II, and the trio is driven by my Onkyo 707. On the rear are the cheapo Insignias, driven by my HK 3380. I ended up picking the rears to drive with the HK simply because they demand the most power. When hooked up to the Onkyo, they needed a full 10dB more gain than my RF-5s or the RC-3II, in spite of the fact that they are a couple feet closer to me. Just more evidence to show the efficiency of Klipsch I guess. Fun times ahead. *At least until the upgrade bug strikes and I need better surrounds[]