MikeFord

Cost is always a factor, so I suspect a main reason is that nobody expected the wave of wacky wire. Most amps aren't waterproof either, but its not an issue in a normal setup. Nothing in audio is free. Protection circuits either add cost, or mess with the sound or both. Many audiophile type systems depend on pleasant artifacts, so advantages, disadvantages, you could make a list as long as desired. I remember a time when pretty much everybody in the audio community used system formulaes, this cartridge with this arm and table, needs such and such preamp, etc etc. I don't think that is still a common thought outside of people who like coloration.

Wilson kicked it off by including setup in the speaker system price, and it worked well, only downside was cost. Subjective experience is all that ultimately matters. How well does an entertainment system entertain you? The trick is, very very few people have any real ability to judge the subjective merit of a sound system. Everybody is certain about what they think they hear, but its only rarely true, and I have had it demonstrated to me time and time again (often via some new "thing" at a hifi show or store). Over in the Sony forum I was in a LONG thread with a guy sure that the most beneficial thing in his system is a thousand dollar AC cord. How does anyone make a serious attempt at improving the state of the art in audio when AC cords are selling for a thousand bucks?

Two years ago was my last CES in Las Vegas, and I looked at some of the high end audio, but its shifted away from what I enjoy. Oddly I don't think its really anything the high end audio people have done, its home theater. Home theater is much more profitable and MUCH higher WAF, so the dollar volume difference is huge, and with THX the average sound quality has been pushed higher and higher. OTOH it doesn't help that much of the high end is totally populated by subjectivists that have killed any "real" audio progress for the last few decades.

Conductors inside coax often suck for use with speakers, too small, solid wire not very flexible, and copper plated steel.

Took some digging, but in the 1980 Speakerlab catalog they finally got around to listing sensitivity for the different models and the 4 is listed as 91 db. Looks like a no go, or at least a highly unlikely go. They should have some nice bass performance, but not really the direction I have in mind vs efficiency. Thanks for running the numbers.

Just a list maker, no cognition involved. IMHO the most important factor in a sound system is the room, get the room "right", and you will have many options for creating amazing sound. Can you imagine what that huge stack of horns would sound like in a big marble walled hall? Yuck.

Hmmm, the other night I went to LoneStar and ate a great burger, but that was a missed steak, any chance this might be another? Seems odd it would be so far off from the original driver, yet made for a clone of the Heresy, and nobody else seeing an issue. Since I have them and the swap won't take too much time, I will have to give them a try to see how it goes, but hoping you missed a digit or the specs themselves were off.

Is that good or bad?

10 months later they are in my living room with the raw Speaklab driver sitting on the top of the cabinet, which is sitting on top of my Forte's I've been listening to for the first time this last week. I just "might" swap the woofers in the next couple days, as one woofer in the right side Forte has a scratchy voicecoil and replacement driver from Crites isn't due until Thursday. So "maybe" I will listen to the Heresy's tomorrow night. Spooked me a little looking at the drivers this morning, stamped 8 ohm, but earlier in the thread that didn't seem to be an issue.

Tinkering with audio has a big trap, we like something that sounds a bit different, and it doesn't have to be different good. I know people who have made expensive journies with incredible improvements at every step and ended up going in a circle. Almost everything in audio is some kind of compromise, money, size, quality, efficiency, neutrality, musicality, increasing any of those generally impacts a few others negatively. Live with the new sound for awhile, then consider what you might like to change. Listen to some other peoples systems. If you can, buy a second set to experiement on so you can try something new, then in a few weeks compare it to the old system. It spooks some people, but I won't pay for any audio changes that I can't verify with blind audio only abx testing.

One wire that comes to mind is IIRC Mogami, which actually used a pair of shields as the conductors and had more capacitance than some early amps were stable with. Nothing AFAIK is inherently bad about shielding the speaker wires, but to what end? The speaker signal has no power above 20k so its not going to "annoy" other circuits, and its fairly high level, volts not millvolts, so seems unlikely anything is going to annoy it. I use cheap 12 gauge clear zip cord, but no harm from twisted pairs, again though to what end its a low impedance high level signal.

I was wondering the other day how someone could move from Klipsch's and horns to something small. I've heard amazing sounding small speakers with a subwoofer, but its a very different experience. I was looking on the local (Orange county Cal) and a guy was selling "repackaged" in a smaller different shaped box essentially a Heresy, and was thinking those with a good sub might be very interesting.

Black Widow was a "hot" arm back in the day. I bought one, and never had a chance to listen to it, store burned while my table was in to have it installed. I don't think it was considered accurate, just one of those items that paired well with certain other items. When it comes to vintage stuff, the only turntable and arm that could still tempt me to use it is a Well Tempered. I don't think I have the patience, or the resources that used to exist to fine tune the setup of various combo's.

FedEx says my replacement woofers arrive on Thursday, so hopefully that night I will be listening to stuff again and give KT a try.

KD has an expressive voice, and a raw vocal seems to be one of the best sounding things with these. Charlie Louvin murder ballads is also really good. I started noticing some distortion the other day, increasing coloration in the lower midrange. Made me think the midrange diaphragm was maybe bad in my right speaker. I called Bob Crites this morning, and he didn't think it sounded like a midrange failure and suggested I swap left and right midranges, but once I had the grilles off I could tell it was the woofer (dragging voice coil). I ordered two of the replacements and pair of titanium tweeter diaphragms, not sure how well I will be holding up waiting on fixing them. What led me to the KD Lange is strange path. I was listening to New Riders of the Purple Sage, Lonesome LA Cowboy, and my wife, who has an uncanny ear for notes, says that is the same music as another song. She couldn't remember the name, but described the lyrics a little and I recognized it as After the Gold Rush by Neil Young. This made me dig out Neil's version, followed by looking at all the versions of After the Gold Rush I could find, and the one by KD Lange was very good. Another great version is by Lais, a Belgian acappella group.

I got the bug last year, bought set of Hersey's with damaged cones, hunted around for replacement drivers, then found a set of Forte's in nice shape and grabbed those. Catch is due to stuff going on in our house, they had to sit in storage for many many months, until Tuesday night at about 9:45 pm. Time for about two songs before it was too late for too loud with windows open. I had forgotten just how much fun a new and very different set of speakers can be. Subjectly they seem wonderful, hearing all sorts of new bits in the mix, very often things I never noticed before as songs faded in or out. I am experiencing a little fatigue, but that could be my son and the new Linkin Park album. It has some kind of distortion effect I don't think horns like, a compressed and fuzzed snare I think. I am surprised at what has been the most pleasing, acapella and unplugged material. KD Lange 49th parallel has some amazing sounding stuff.

A problem is something that prevents you from doing what you want. You don't have a problem.

I like to tune to flat with band limited noise, try some different locations for the sub if some frequencies seem too hot, then live with it a week or two before adjusting to taste. Its your system so ultimately you need to be pleased not some meter. One big caution with setup is that a single setting "wrong" may make a lot of other settings goofy, so I generally turn everything I don't understand off. If you can localize the subwoofer, something is wrong, typically distortion in the subwoofer as the fundamental frequencies are low enough the human ear doesn't localize them. The harmonics created by distortion are what you localize with.

I don't think all subs sound good with all speakers, the bass and mid bass need to blend well otherwise it is distracting. OTOH I have no idea what the VF series mid bass is like.

I wish they would use plywood, the crap they use today is one step up from cardboard. Plywood gets used when the speaker is going to see a lot of rough handling, but MDF is a better material sonically to build a speaker out of.

Buy wire, what a clever sales idea, but I'm not sure why anybody does it. Maybe it makes a difference, but I suspect improvement is unlikely. The crossover is one of the most critical elements in the voicing of a speaker, and when you bi wire you stick two unknown length and characteristic sections of wire between woofer and midrange/tweeter crossover components. Except for the obvious profit potential its a really bad idea.

Scala used to be one of my most frequently used search terms on Craigslist, and I tracked prices for maybe year back from now. In Orange County Cal and a few surrounding areas I found about half a dozen offered in that period, and sales seemed around $600 to $800 a pair. The trouble with using Craigslist though is that people pull the ads fairly quickly when lower priced items sell and they keep getting calls, so many great deals you will never see unless you happen to search at the right time. Prices varies a lot by location, and much of what I see for sale in my area are people moving to a smaller house or apartment that doesn't have space for a large speaker. Sqft in a house in expensive here, in areas where houses are larger and cheaper in general I suspect big speakers sell for more.

2 Ch audio is pretty easy, but not much of a step beyond you have to start looking at all the details carefully. I wanted a full media server, minimum of 2.1 Ch and supporting 5.1 or better for most things with at least 24/96, and I wanted all my connections to be digital. So far one year into the adventure, first system worked pretty well, then I added BluRay when I updated the motherboard after the first one lost video and bleh all sorts of issues. BTW I don't think BluRay "really" works on a Linux system at all. I'm also not sure how much support there is for firewire, aka ilink, except in the newest and most expensive Pioneer recievers. OTOH when my system is beat back into submission again I will have support for all media.

I think any of the optical inputs on the back will work, and in the setup for the receiver you select the one you are using. Link to your owners manual. http://usa.denon.com/DocumentMaster/US/AVR-3312CIE3_ENG_CD-ROM_v00.pdf

Why not ask, Why ketchup, or in my son's case teriyaki sauce? Below some level of quality everything tastes "better" when drenched in some sauce. Above some level of quality the ingredients speak best alone. ********** Steam cleaning records, seriously? No thanks, distilled water, disinfectant grade isopropel alcohol, and drop of a good surfactant like dish soap. Soft fine bristles to get down in the grooves, rinse with distilled water, and vacuum as close to 100% of the remains allow little to evaporate. Clean the needle with goop designed for it as well. Check both with a decent microscope from time to time to make sure your methods are working. Control static. ********** Don't get to anxious about surface noise or pops and ticks. With a good system my own experience is that pop and ticks will be outside the normal sound stage, and you can learn to ignore them. They don't especially bother me, and I sometimes find them preferable to artifical removal, although some modern methods do a very clean job of removing noise.