lynnm

Let us know how it works out!! ------------------ It is meet to recall that the Great Green Heron rarely flies upside down in the moonlight - (Foo Ling ca. 1304 BCE)

That model has an inherent tendency to run under anything higher than an Austin Mini. Unless you are prepared to spend endless dollars per month replacing helmets and other people's exhaust systems Get rid of it!!! ------------------ It is meet to recall that the Great Green Heron rarely flies upside down in the moonlight - (Foo Ling ca. 1304 BCE)

Here is a link but there isn't much info beyond the "We ate them and here's where you probably will not find any parts variety" http://www.frazierspeakers.com/ No hostility implied. It appears that Frazier figured out that they could compete in the commercial market a hello of a lot easier than in the audiophile market and did well enough to get bought out as opposed to winding up in bankruptcy court. Probably a good choice. ------------------ It is meet to recall that the Great Green Heron rarely flies upside down in the moonlight - (Foo Ling ca. 1304 BCE) This message has been edited by lynnm on 11-30-2001 at 08:43 PM

That 10" speaker will sound bloody awful if it is not installed in a suitable enclosure. As for the car amp most of those things are designed to create as much racket as possible and sonic excellence be damned. The few that are designed with sound quality in mind will be designed for the acoustics of the average automobile and not the average living room or dormitory. Forget it - It wouldn't be worth the cost of the hookup wire. ------------------ It is meet to recall that the Great Green Heron rarely flies upside down in the moonlight - (Foo Ling ca. 1304 BCE)

STL Are you really so naive as buy that old "unionism is communism!" crap ? Learn to live according to observable reality instead of slavish obedience to silly slogans. The beauty of living by slogans is that it relieves one of the necessity of thinking. ------------------ It is meet to recall that the Great Green Heron rarely flies upside down in the moonlight - (Foo Ling ca. 1304 BCE)

Houston - We have a problem!! All kidding aside - We need to know the Amplifier maker and model number. We will also need to know how that power rating was derived and under what conditions? Give us that information and we will likely be able to provide some guidance. Is it possible for the same amplifier to be rated as being capable of putting out a maximum of 10 watts/channel by one seller and a maximum of 1000 watts/channel by another and for both sellers to be within the law ? Absolutely yes! That mi amigo isbecause it is a matter of definition! It comes down to how one defines something as basic as a watt and/or how one defines maximum output. Give us the name/model/specs and we will help you figure it out. As a general rule you can assume that the $/power output ratio is an inverse one. In other words while it is tempting to believe that one can buy a 100 watt/channel stereo amplifier for U$29.98 that will be the equal of a U$500.00 100watt/channel - the odds are that there will be a significant difference in the specifications/quality/actual power rating. None of the above is meant to imply that there are not bargains to be had out there but simply to point out that in the world of audio - "It ain't Necessarily So!" If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck - It still might be an Albatross! ------------------ It is meet to recall that the Great Green Heron rarely flies upside down in the moonlight - (Foo Ling ca. 1304 BCE)

Works for me - so long as it were a separate topic area and advertising were banned from the other topic areas. I would hate to see this site be inundated with "Have I got a deal for You" posts. That said I would likely spend a good deal of time browsing a for sale/wanted topic area. ------------------ It is meet to recall that the Great Green Heron rarely flies upside down in the moonlight - (Foo Ling ca. 1304 BCE)

mpgwagon There is no need to be reticent on this board: - If you appreciate the sound of the La Scala you do not need to mince around - Tell us how you really feel <GRIN> BTW <Ditto> ------------------ It is meet to recall that the Great Green Heron rarely flies upside down in the moonlight - (Foo Ling ca. 1304 BCE)

My HPM 200's are still with me and I should sell them because I no longer use them. I cannot deny my KLF's sound better,(otherwise why would I replace the HPM's)- but I guess my HPM's have sounded so good for long I am having trouble letting go. I guess it is like letting go of a great car even though you have purchased another that is not only newer but whose performance is undeniably better. ------------------ It is meet to recall that the Great Green Heron rarely flies upside down in the moonlight - (Foo Ling ca. 1304 BCE)

I had known about the Klipschorn for a lot of years before I ever actually heard them. I think my first taste would have been in '72 or '73. I was blown away by both the sound and the price. Even then they were about $3500 pair here in Canada. Over the years I have had various nice systems. My last system was a Hitachi SR2004 driving a pair of Pioneer HPM 200's which I used for about 20 years. In July of this year my wife and I drove the 35 miles to a dealer in Calgary to pick up a pair of Promedia 2.1's for our computer. While we were there I spotted a pair of KLF30's in mahogany and asked him to light them up for me. I had no real intention of buying them but... Doug was smart enough to put on Louis Armstrong singing "What a Wonderful World", instead of Metallica or some other chainsaw quintet. My wife looked at me and instead of saying we couldn't afford them raised the only objection she has ever made to them: How the Hell are we going to get them home? YESSSS!!! The KLF's are now matched up to an Antique Sound Lab AQ1003DT tube amp(30w./ch Class A - 12AU7's driving EL34's) - U$750.00 would you believe?? This combo is absolutely delicious and I find myself listening to it for hours on end. Back to the original question: Why Klipsch? Sound and value. I have heard systems costing several times as much as mine that do not sound nearly as good! ------------------ It is meet to recall that the Great Green Heron rarely flies upside down in the moonlight - (Foo Ling ca. 1304 BCE) This message has been edited by lynnm on 11-29-2001 at 01:51 PM

tblasing you are truly awful! ------------------ It is meet to recall that the Great Green Heron rarely flies upside down in the moonlight - (Foo Ling ca. 1304 BCE)

I like your comment about bad loudspeakers have gotten better. I really do think that overall garden variety small loudspeakers Have gotten better sounding. No so called executive mini system comes even close to providing the kind of sound that is reproduced by a decent audiophile setup but that said - I have been hearing some suprisingly decent sound coming out of complete systems that take up less space than a small "bookshelf" speaker from the 70's and 80's. In my case it was hearing a very small system,(in Pizza Joe's in Puerto Vallarta - now converted into an Art Gallery <sigh> I appreciate Art but his Pizzas were masterpieces in their own right ),which rekindled my interest in audio and set the stage for me to fall head over heels for my KLF-30's once I heard them. That small system was just good enough to remind me of what I had been missing. The other edge of that sword is that many who might learn to love a good audiophile grade system will never explore that turf because unless they happen to hear a great system they will never be tempted. ------------------ It is meet to recall that the Great Green Heron rarely flies upside down in the moonlight - (Foo Ling ca. 1304 BCE) This message has been edited by lynnm on 11-29-2001 at 08:40 AM

Nope last week -- That's my master's beetle! ------------------ It is meet to recall that the Great Green Heron rarely flies upside down in the moonlight - (Foo Ling ca. 1304 BCE)

TBrennan Thanks for the info on the Iconic. I was able to do some sniffing around the net and learned a good deal about early commercial loudspeakers. ------------------ It is meet to recall that the Great Green Heron rarely flies upside down in the moonlight - (Foo Ling ca. 1304 BCE)

I hadn't heard of the Iconic and I'm curious about the bass bin. Was it a tuned port type of design ? ------------------ It is meet to recall that the Great Green Heron rarely flies upside down in the moonlight - (Foo Ling ca. 1304 BCE)

Update: The AQ1003DT is back from Kitchener,Ontario not Montreal,(I was thinking of the PAKi11 which is distributed by Rotac which is based in La Belle Province). The Rega Brio is one heck of a nice SS amp but the AQ1003DT blows it out of the water. Apparently one of the EL34's had developed an internal short and a resistor got caught in the crossfire. Divergent replaced all 4 EL34's and threw in a audiophile quality power cord to boot. In sum that amp and the KLF30's are a damned fine combination........now if I can persuade the cat to come back down from the attic. ------------------ It is meet to recall that the Great Green Heron rarely flies upside down in the moonlight - (Foo Ling ca. 1304 BCE)

MADASHELLESTES I do not recommend mixing drivers from other speaker models even within the same manufacturer's product line unless you really know what you are doing. The cabinets are specifically optimized for the drivers that are contained within them. Enlarging openings and/or introducing larger drivers into the cabinet is bound to change the physics of the situation and will likely be detrimental to the bass response in particular and the overall tonal balance in general. If you ever took a good look at the mathematics involved in calculating the cabinet volume and the most appropriate dimensions to arrive at that volume for a given driver I think it would give you reason to reconsider what is very likely to be a disappointing project. Edit: I failed to answer your question regarding efficiency ratings. The Khorns and La Scala's etc. are much more efficient than the vast majority of speakers because they are Horn loaded. Back in the early '40's Paul W. Klipsch observed that the large scale theatre horns used at the time could put out a tremendous volume of clean sound with extremely low powered amplifiers. Some of those things were huge and utterly impractical for home use. ("I know they are a bit big dear but don't they sound great?" A BIT BIG! YOU IDIOT THOSE DAMNED THINGS ARE EACH THE SIZE OF A STANDARD OIL GARAGE! GET RID OF THEM AND WHEN THE DOCTOR SAYS YOU'RE WELL AGAIN I WILL CONSIDER COMING BACK TO YOU!" Fortunately Paul W. was a trained engineer and an inveterate tinkerer with a creative mind and he correctly surmised that if a theatre horn could be folded in such a way as to cause the sound waves from the driver to travel the same distance and at the same velocity as produced in a straight horn and if the wave front could be made to have the proper coupling to the air mass in the room - then one could have theatre quality sound in the home. The basic premise is simple enough,(although it took a brilliant mind to recognise it),but the implementation was a whole other story. I have seen an article that Paul W. published about the math involved - OY! The Klipschorn is unarguably the first Hi-Fidelity speaker ever commercially produced for home use. Many other makers and speaker technologies have come to the fore in succeeding years but it is fair to say that no one has more experience in designing High Fidelity speakers than the folks at Klipsch -Another good reason to NOT fiddle with their designs unless you really know what you are about. BTW Paul W. Klipsch is well into his 90's and still resides in Hope Arkansas. I read a post in which a forum member who lives in Hope said that as recently as a year ago Paul W. could be seen around the research lab working on the design for a new speaker that rumour has it will set the audio world back on its heels. ------------------ It is meet to recall that the Great Green Heron rarely flies upside down in the moonlight - (Foo Ling ca. 1304 BCE) This message has been edited by lynnm on 11-27-2001 at 05:59 PM

Please see the opening post in this thread for additional pertinent detail! - a major edit! ------------------ It is meet to recall that the Great Green Heron rarely flies upside down in the moonlight - (Foo Ling ca. 1304 BCE)

I have purchased a quad set of Ruby EL34's via EBay. Has anyone any info/opinions re these tubes? At worst they will be a backup to the EL34's in my Antique Sound Labs AQ1003DT. I got them for U$ 21.50 so I they will make a damned good backup set at a fairly low cost. ------------------ It is meet to recall that the Great Green Heron rarely flies upside down in the moonlight - (Foo Ling ca. 1304 BCE)

It hardly seems worthwhile for J. Gordon Holt to risk giving himself a hernia wrestling a pair of Khorns about when he clearly has made up his mind about what his "review" is going to say. ------------------ It is meet to recall that the Great Green Heron rarely flies upside down in the moonlight - (Foo Ling ca. 1304 BCE)

I own and love a pair of KLF 30's. I drive them with an Antique Sound Lab AQ1003DT which is a 30w/ch,(class A) tube amplifier see: http:\\www.divertech.com/ see also: http:\\www.tubehifi.com This amplifier is amazing! I won't bother you with a list of superlatives - You need to listen to it to understand my joy. My AQ unfortunately tanked and my dealer gave me a decent SS amp,(Rega Brio), to use until my Aq came home from the Horse Pistol. That Rega was a joy to listen to and my wife began to question the extra cost of the AQ1003,(It had arrived and 911'd in her abscence while visiting family back east). About 45 seconds after I fired my newly returned AQ up she said "My God that is the first time I've ever heard our speakers!" She went on to comment on the powerful bottom end,the sense of air around the instruments and the overall"You are there" sound of the music. All of the above said: There are many excellent Solid State amps out there and probably a few crappy tube amps - but I definitely prefer my tube amp to any others I have heard. ------------------ It is meet to recall that the Great Green Heron rarely flies upside down in the moonlight - (Foo Ling ca. 1304 BCE)

They're worth about U$12.56 Send me an OK. and I'll send you a money order. I'll pay packing and shipping -of course! ------------------ It is meet to recall that the Great Green Heron rarely flies upside down in the moonlight - (Foo Ling ca. 1304 BCE)

RAY - LOL "If you look in the dictionary under "can of worms" you'll no doubt find references to "bi-wiring speakers..." The next thing you'll be saying is that not everybody agrees about tube vs. Solid State when we all know that all good quality amplifiers sound the same regardles of the underlying technology. It must be true because Stereo Review said it is!! (Sound of Lynn barricading door to bomb shelter) For those of you needing a transplant I just be Funning! ------------------ It is meet to recall that the Great Green Heron rarely flies upside down in the moonlight - (Foo Ling ca. 1304 BCE)

Happy Thanksgiving to my American friends. May the year to follow be a happier one! ------------------ It is meet to recall that the Great Green Heron rarely flies upside down in the moonlight - (Foo Ling ca. 1304 BCE)

My room dimensions are similar to yours,(yours 16'x24' mine to 15' x 25'). Given that you have placed your KLF's very close to the wall (8"+/-) and very close to the corners in a room,(which like mine - that has a rather unfortunate width to length ratio - I suggest that the poor sonic experience you describe is inevitable. This is especially true with the rather severe toe in you describe - remember horns tend to be highly directional in the mid and upper end. You are fighting standing wave phenomena and mid/hi beaming. I moved my KLF 30's to the long wall.I then drew an equilateral triangle between my speakers and the centre of the point where I wished my sweet spot to be. I then experimented with varying degrees of toe-in and distance between the back of my 30's and the wall as I wished to avoid that effect you describe in which the sweet spot was so tight that I could not move my head a little without experiencing a major change in sonic character. In any event as it stands at the moment my positioning is approximately: Left about 3' in from the corner and 2 1/2' out from the 25' long wall Right about 10 1/2 feet from the left speaker. Toe-in minimal - I have no way of measuring and lack the mathematical savvy to do so but an eye-ball estimate would be somewhere between 5-10 degrees and more likely at the low end of that range. Sweet spot centred about 10 1/2 feet from the speakers. Result: More experimentation will be needed but at present I have a very forgiving sweet spot and the sound stage on certain pieces sounds as if it were 20' wide. - Works for me!! ------------------ It is meet to recall that the Great Green Heron rarely flies upside down in the moonlight - (Foo Ling ca. 1304 BCE)