fabulousfrankie

I remember seeing a review of some computer speakers on a site that was in another language. It had the PM2.1's in their test. I just deleted it out of my favorites a few days ago, I found it with a google search while looking for the same thing.

What ever you do I recommend putting a small part of that budget towards an eq like the $120 BFD. No matter how good your sub is, your room can turn it into a one not boom machine. What about having something built for you from a place like www.acoustic-visions.com. Something like dual Stryke AV12's, having the enclosure built, PR or vents, and amplifier should come within budget and it can be finished to your likings. You can see their choice of standard laminates: http://acoustic-visions.com/~acoustic/products/subwoofers/enclosures/painting.shtml

---------------- On 1/18/2004 7:57:22 PM psypathic wrote: check the audiobahn immortals. i think they would work good but then again i know nothing about specks on speakers. ---------------- The Immortals are pricey at $465 for the 15" and $419 for the 12"...almost the price of a the Adire Tumult. Actually after shipping I wouldn't be surprised if it meets or exceeds $500 for the 15", which is the shipped price of the Tumult from www.acoustic-visions.com. The Immortals are beefy drivers but they are definitely not suited for home use...the Fs is way to high which means it will next to impossible to get clean bass at high SPL's in a home environment. If you want the single best DIY driver out there I think the Tumult is it. It will be able to move more air(with enough power) and do it will lower distortion than the Immortals. For a lower cost alternative you could do dual Stryke AV15's around $400 and displace even more air than a single Tumult. I'm running dual vented AV-15's with 750W to each in a 1500ft^3 room and I can max out the RS SPL meter around 7 ft away.

I say get one of the 25-31's, which one you get depends upon your listening habits. If you're doing mostly music then I think a 25-31PCi should be plenty. One other thing you can also do with the PCi/CS lines is have them retune the 25-31PCi from 25Hz to 22Hz for no additional cost. Just make sure you let them know you want it before you order.

---------------- On 1/18/2004 1:57:00 AM sesquim wrote: how about audiobahn subwoofers? i think they could be good for home sound... and all car subwoofers.. look good! i wish they make home subwoofer speakers look as good and as powerful... ---------------- Audiobahn's Alum series baskets are a joke...they have tons of problems with shipping them. During shipping the baskets keep cracking even though they have a wooden shipping container. If this is an indication of the quailty of the rest of the Audiobahn's lines, I think I'll pass.

---------------- On 1/15/2004 3:47:27 PM dougdrake wrote: I've heard Joanne's sells black speaker cloth. Another source is www.partsexpress.com. ---------------- I went to my local Joann's to get some as the "sock" for my sonosubs.

---------------- ...that would get you 3db, but in the grand scheme of things, 3db still ain't much. $100 /decibel! ---------------- Well think about it this way...say you get a 25-31PCi for $550, later on down the road you decide you want more and you buy another 25-31PCi. Now two big cylinders don't fit too well in the same corner so you place the second in another corner or where ever it's convenient for you and your SO. The increase you'll get by doing this is 3dB but this time you just paid another $550 to do it. This all assumes the two subs aren't located together. Your room isn't too big assuming normal ceiling heights so a 25-31PCi would probalby be plenty.

Which car drivers are you looking at? What's your budget for driver(s)? Are you planning on doing sealed? Vented? PR? Something else?

Hey JT, 3rd Cav here...since you did you're accolade I'll do mine: "Brave Rifles...Aieeyah" Anyway's, my name is Frank Carter but my family and friends have called me Frankie since I was small. When I was in the Army I had a ring that was a gift from my parents that had an "F" on it. When I was helping a new soldier in-process he asked what the "F" stood for and I jokingly said fabulous. I was busy doing something else and forgot to actually tell him my name. From then on he kept calling me fabulous, a few of my friends heard him and starting calling me Fabulous Frankie. When I was joining the BB the name came to mind so I thought why not.

A 25-31PC Plus will give you around 3-4dB more clean output over a 25-31PCi. If you're more concerned with extension then get the 16-46PCi or PC Plus, if you want more output and punch then get the 25-31PCi or PC Plus, if you want a mix of both then get the 20-39PCi or PC Plus. Tuning a 25-31PC Plus to 16Hz will diminish it's punch and severely limit it's output down low. It will only leave one three inch port for the dB-12 driver which is equivalent to you running a mile and breathing through a straw the whole way. Like I said, buy the appropriate sub for your needs instead of plugging the ports.

---------------- On 1/16/2004 11:34:01 PM companion wrote: I am not married so it doesnt matter what is look's like i want good performance i was actually thinking of spending a little more money and getting the pci 16-46 model for better home theater i wont use it much but when i got all the guy's over watching a movie i want to have excellent low's and i think it actually look's pretty cool i would prefer that over a box even though they are bigger than my RF-35's 40 inches tall and 9 wide 14 deep the sub is 46 inches tall that is a big *** sub though would that have as much or more punch for music? ---------------- The lower you tune a sub the less midbass punch you'll get. If punchy bass for music is what you're looking for, I'd recommend the 25-31PCi or the PB2-ISD.

The Adire Rava is an excellent choice. You can also check out the Hsu STF-2 which is suppossed to have similar performance to the VTF-2 when in it's maximum extension mode. At Comp USA you can check if it's in stock at a store near you(not sold online). http://www.compusa.com/products/product_info.asp?sid=3FCD278050B8E17F&product_code=305934&pfp=BROWSE I just want to point out that Hsu had a run of STF-2 subs that had a bad seal around the driver(wrong thickness) and it would leak air. Hsu said only a few drivers had this and it's been taken care of. If you get a bad one you can try to exchange for another at Comp USA, have Hsu replace it under warranty, or just put weather stripping or rope caulk yourself.

Just browsing HomeTheaterHifi.com's site and saw that Dr. John E. Johnson's made an appearance on TechTV and did a little bit on connecting a home theater, well the sub he brought to connect was an SVS 25-31PCi. It's kind of funny to see the guy's reaction on tv when it starts playing. I just thought some people would be interested in seeing it in a video instead of just pictures. tech-tv-12-2003.wmv(5.19MB)

---------------- On 1/15/2004 11:48:50 AM JBP wrote: I am looking at two different SVS subs and was hoping to get some opinions on their performance. They are the PB2-ISD and PB2-PLUS. I was just wondering how much of a difference the extra 300 watts and better drivers would make? My intial thought was that the extra $350 would be well spent but I just wanted to get some other thoughts. I assume these are the best performers in this price range, or are there other brands I should consider? Thanks. ---------------- They are pretty similar, with the PB2-Plus you can expect about 3dB more clean ouput. Only if the PB2-ISD is pushed to it's limit you'll start to notice a difference in terms of sound quality between the two. Whether or not you need the extra output depends on your listening habits/room size/room layout. If your room is large and has openings to other room then you might want to consider spending the extra money. Keep in mind that something like SVS' PB2-ISD should be capable of quite a bit of clean output. I think it's safe to say that it would be able to top the Nousaine list if sent for testing and that's impressive performance considering it's price. Click below to see the subs that are at the top fo the list: http://members.cox.net/frankcarter/Tom%20Nousaine%20Sub%20Data.htm

---------------- On 1/15/2004 9:59:53 AM Taylor189 wrote: I only have about 400-500 to spend on a new sub, so I might have to get used, I'm not sure yet. I have a set of 5.1 Ultras, but I don't want to get a SWS because they can't hit low enough. I don't want just more volume, I want something that can dig deeper. ---------------- In that price range, I think the Hsu VTF-2 would be the best sub. It will easily out class the KSW-12 and E250. The VTF-2 competes very well with sub that cost much more. If you can spend a tiny bit more, the SVS 25-31PCi is a very good subwoofer as well.

---------------- On 1/14/2004 9:35:58 PM companion wrote: so you think i will be most happy with one of the svs sub's like 25-31pci sub's would that have alot of impact and excell in home theater 10% and music 90% i want somthing with good low's will get loud and have alot of punch throughout the whole listening area ---------------- I think so...it has good extension and verified high output with low distortion. The only reason it wouldn't sound it is because of improper setup. I've heard a DIY sub using the original SVS CS driver(in addition to the 20-39CS Plus and CS Ultra) and all are great with music and home theater. The only thing that could ruin it would be room acoustics but experimentation with placement can take care of that. It should still come under $600 after shipping, my CS Ultra cost a surprising $28 to ship to VA and that's with a bigger enclosure and a driver that probably weighs twice as much as the ISD. cjgeraci, Thanks for the compliment on the posting, I do know that Hsu has some new versions coming out with an upgraded driver with piano gloss enclosures and cool blue Hsu signs...they come at a higher price though. You can see pics below: http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_11_1/show-report-ces2004-page-3.html

---------------- On 1/13/2004 4:18:45 PM Jabez Scratch wrote: I've read some early reports and talked w/ some people at a/v stores (even those that don't sell Paradigm) and apparently the new Paradigm Seismic 12 subwoofer is groundbreaking and astonishing. Anyone heard anything about this one? ---------------- Groundbreaking...not really, but it's very good for it's size. Anybody know what the street price on the sub is...I know the MSRP?

---------------- On 1/14/2004 12:41:53 AM companion wrote: Hello i am looking for a fairly cheap sub under 600$ that would be pretty desent for my RF-35 i use it motly for music dont care as much about home theater my room is about 10x20 and i want a nice big sound to compliment my rf-35's so please help and if possible leave me a link so i can get to the site where i can find the sub thank's ---------------- Wait and save? There are less expensive subs that will best a RSW10 in clean output and extension as long as you can handle a larger enclosure. The SVS 25-31PCi at $550 is the highest performing sub under $600 IMO and the PB1-ISD is essentially the box version of it but it's tuned 3Hz lower and it costs $50 more because of higher material costs(also shipping will be more because it's heavier than it's cylinder couterpart). If either of those don't fit the bill, then I would suggest the Hsu VTF-2, it's another great performer at a lower price and in a smaller package. Instead of just taking people's word on what's best, I like to see some sort of objective data. Dr. John Johnson took some distortion measurements on a 25-31PCi, he also had a sub that he didn't reveal the name of called "subwoofer x" for comparison. I've later learned that "subwoofer x" = Velodyne HGS-10, you can see some distortion measurements taken under the same condition of the same subs below: There are other review's with similar info taken from Dr. JJ at www.hometheaterhifi.com. Besides this, you can also guestimate on how a 25-31PCi will perform based on how it's cousin the 20-39CS performed in Tom Nousaine's tests. The old SVS 20-39CS driven by a 300W amp managed to hit get 109.5dB in Nousaine's large 7500ft^3 room by taken the 10% distortion limit at 1/3 octave spacing(25,31,40,50, 62Hz) and averaging the numbers together. Now this SVS was an original design using a slightly less capable driver and standard sonotube enclosure with 1" MDF endcaps(I think).Now the 25-31 is tuned higher which mean's it will be able more clean output than the 20-39 from 25Hz and above at the expense of output below 25Hz. You can see from the graph below how the 16-46CS(purple), 20-39CS(red), and 25-31CS(light blue) compare to each other in terms of their frequency response. So going from the original SVS 20-39CS to a current 25-31PCi which has more robust driver, 50% thicker tubing, upgraded 1" baltic birch endcaps, and it's tuned for higher output above 25Hz, I think it's a conservative estimate add 2dB's to the Nousiane number of the 20-39CS which means it would score a 111.5dB over the 25-63Hz range. You can reference this list of all subwoofers that have been tested under the same conditions by Tom Nousaine in order of the 25-63Hz average with 10% distortion limits. The Hsu VTF-2 I mentioned above is also on the TN list below, since it was tested I think the driver has been upgraded but I'm not too sure about that. Click here for TN list.

---------------- On 1/13/2004 1:44:23 PM ironwoods wrote: Hey Frankie, so they use the same drivers in both models? That just seems wierd, as the outdoor ones would have(?)to be more resistant to heat & humidity extremes, I'd imagine. Maybe they just put some kind of spray coating on the midbass, that isn't noticeable? Come summer time, maybe I'll open 'em up and give a coat inside. Yeah, $2.50, what the heck. The JBL N26's may be cheap and do not compare to a 70's studio monitor type of speaker , but one way or another, they got 'em to sound pretty good, at least to my ears. That's $109 for 2 in late 2002! ---------------- Well it very well could have some sort of coating to help protect the woofer, but nothing was visible from the exterior and it had no audible effect that I could tell. I just finished hooking up my parent's home theater today and it sounds damn good for the $300 spent on the JBL speakers. I still have tiny bit left in the can...I already sprayed the horns in my KLF-20's and KLF-C7 I might do my Promedia 2.1's just to use up the rest.

The RSW-12 much more expensive than JBL's sub, so they really shouldn't be compared.

---------------- Frankie, Look at my last comment in the smilin mia thread and then tell me if you would ever trade in a wife like mine Ya man do it and than help build DREAMS, so what if I gottaa learn for a while Smilin BTW, B4 still not right, and wood corner starting to get gaps!!!! help!! ---------------- I read the post...go ahead and keep her. My fiancee is extremely tolerant of my hobby but we'll see how that goes when we start living together. What exactly is it you can't get right with the B4?

---------------- On 1/12/2004 3:07:34 PM larrymaher wrote: I see this mentioned? What is it? and When? I tried the PB2 PLus but too large in size for my room. Does SVS plan on making a smaller box sub this year? thanks ---------------- Are you talking about the old posts that talked about the super sub? If so, then that's just what we all called the B4 Plus before we knew SVS released it's name.

---------------- On 1/12/2004 10:30:07 PM Taylor189 wrote: Between the RSW-12 and the JBL 12" Northridge, which sub is better? ---------------- You mean the PB12 or the new E250? Doesn't really matter, the RSW12 would be a nuch better choice than both.

---------------- On 1/12/2004 3:49:33 PM ironwoods wrote: I'm running some JBL N26AW's out on the patio and they sound great. $109 two years back. The outdoor Klipsch($300)just didn't do it it for me. Now maybe a Heresy IIAW(all weather)would. I wonder how the indoor and outdoor JBL N26's differ in sound? Well written and documented procedure from your link, thanks ---------------- I've had the JBL outdoor speakers right next to the indoor ones before I modded them, there was no difference I could hear. I didn't take the outdoor ones apart but the only thing I could see that was different from the outside was there was a screen on the port, probably so nothing crawls inside. I highly recommend you try it, I think you'll find it's worth the small investment. Even if you don't feel it's worth it you're only out $2.50 and only mintues of your time.

---------------- On 1/12/2004 10:54:44 AM Brentis wrote: I've been looking for a subwoofer for an new subwoofer for quite some time. I currently have a Monitor Audio ASW210 (2 10" drivers) and purchased it for its musical capabilities. I made the mistake of thinking I would be happy with it in a large room vs. the one that it in when I auditioned it... I've found the Velo HGS-12 to be pretty impressive, however, it is pricey and now hard to find. My question is how does the RSW15 compare? The limited information I've found says it is a bit punchy up around 60 hz which I think could make my system a bit off balanced. I really want this subwoofer for HT explosions and such and don't want it bottoming out every couple of minutes like my asw210. From a ranking perspective would you rank these subs in this order? 1) HGS-18 2) RSW-15 3) HGS-15 4) HGS-12 ?? As long as the RSW-15 hits harder (with little distortion) than the hgs-12 I think I would be in good shape. Thanks! ---------------- That's how I would rank them. TheEAR will probably respond, I would put a lot of weight in what he says since he's knowledgalbe and owns both the HGS18 and RSW15.