Good2BHome

I currently have the above on a short loan from a fellow forum member. I like it and it would fill a "want" (not a need) in my system. Besides sounding good, the real value to me is that it is a 3 channel amp. The big downside to me are the binding posts they suck (no other way to say it). Since this unit is on loan I can not in good faith open it up. How difficult would it be to replace the present binding post with your average 5 way binding posts? I am very handy with a soldering iron and very mechanical. Thanks

jerohm, You definitely march to the beat of a different drummer: A) I ask you a question about the meaning of "(fourth entry from the bottom)" from your opening post. It remains unanswered. I will not agree to call the Vertical Cornwall anything other than a Vertical since this is what Klipsch called it in their material and is the common term used on this forum. C) Your reading of the 1960 document is IMHO flat wrong. In addition, that document is about as good as "hearing from Klipsch" as I think we're going to get! D) You have the right to ASSERT anything you want to, but that doesn't make it so. And you have presented nothing but opinions and your interpretations. I'm sorry I don't mean to be harsh but, IMHO I just think you hate to loose an argument. For the rest here is a picture of the "original" Cornwall from the Klipsch Museum. Note the LEGS (I repeat LEGS) on the bottom which hold it in the Vertical position. I do not know the Serial number of that Cornwall, but Khorn58 posted pictures a while back of his 1960 Serial #118 Vertical Cornwall and they still had the LEGS and the picture of the interior showed vertical horns. All the evidence I have says Cornwalls started as Verticals and were THE production model (with the option of positioning them horizontally) until some time in 1974 when the model with Horizontal horn placement replaced them as the production model. I have seen a 1974 Horizontal so the change over occurred some time in 1974. Those that remember, HDBR told us, from time to time they would receive a special order for a Vertical after the regular production ended. I too own a 1974 pair of CWL Vertical Cornwalls Mike

---------------- On 7/31/2005 5:36:07 PM jerohm wrote: Doesn't this kind of imply that there never was any intention to "design" a vertical Cornwall ... just one that was suppose to sit on its side? (fourth entry from the bottom). ---------------- jerohm, I don't understand your reference "(fourth entry from the bottom)". What is this a referring to?? A couple other comments: I know of no ads or mag reviews where the Cornwall appears in the Horizontal position (other than the Price List) And finally another 1000 words (or so). I dug a little deeper and... This document should make it obvious (to most anyway) that the Vertical position was PWK's intend and preferred position for the Cornwall. The Horizontal position was just an option offered. The most important paragraph to this thread is the last paragraph. Note the date of the document at the bottom. I had to trim the margins to get it to upload. Mike

Here's another 1000 words. This is to show the two position arrow label If you look close you will see the serial number is 6C03, so in 1964 the "bi-position" arrow label was being applied to the Cornwall. As a side note, I listened to this particular Cornwall this evening. Mike

A picture is worth a 1000 words. Here is a July, 1973 Price List that shows three! (3) different riser choices: 1 for Vertical position and 2 for Horizontal position. Note the statement next to the Vertical Cornwall picture, "Preferred vertical position with optional 2" riser". Mike

Painful, Thanks for the picture. It is better that the one I had. Hopefully Allen Songer will come up with his soon. It intrigues me.

---------------- On 7/18/2005 4:04:10 PM zaven wrote: I am trying to acquire very vintage vertical horn Cornwalls. Could someone give me the manufacturing history of these? Are the drivers different from the horizontally mounted Cornwall I models or just their orientation? ---------------- I don't see were we really answered zaven's original question. This is not a complete answer, but unless you are talking about buying pre 1966 verticals, the drivers are essentially the same (only the manufacturer of a driver might be different) from 1966 to 1979 for both verticals and horizontals. The crossover during this same period was the "B", but it was built 3 different ways. All electrically the same just different sets of components.

---------------- On 7/20/2005 2:15:16 PM Allan Songer wrote: Just so you know, my '64 Cornwalls do not have the rubber-stamped "II" on them. ---------------- Allen, Then is it correct to say that you then have the Labels with the "II" printed in black? What are the serial numbers, because serial number 6C03 has the red rubber stamp "II" on it. A picture(s) would be nice. Frzninvt, The only "Chris Robinson" I have is of 1968 CWO's that he sold (I think) earlier this year to "Painful Reality". (I do try to keep up) If you still have / can find the pictures post'em I.B. "This is just nuts. My '73 verts "cornwall" had catalogs on the backs. They show horz!" I feel your pain, but I'am not sure I understand it. If the pain is caused because you have 1973 "Verticals" and they just don't have the "II" designation on them, then you have LOTS of company (i.e. all owners after the change in 1972 up to late 1974 to early 1975) because as I said earlier, sometime in 1972 Klipsch changed the label and dropped the "II" designation. They didn't change the speaker just the label. The 1974 Vertical pair I bought from a "knowledgeable collector" told me, to my face, he wished they were "Cornwalls IIs" because he would be asking alot more for them. Who was I to blow against the wind and inform him they were the same damn speakers as any Vertical with a "B" crossover in it.... and I.B. yours are no different!! If I still don't understand your pain, post a picture. The reference to "catalogs" is confusing. And lastly. CaptnBob's concise description is my understanding and it fits with all the evidence I have collected. The only thing I would add is the original Cornwal was a desendent of Rebel V. This post is one of the reasons I don't post much. It's hard work.

Frzninvt, Here's a picture of one of your brothers Serial number labels #284. To my eye there is no evidence of a red "II", but it could be totally faded, I guess, but I doubt it. Thanks for the lead on Triceratops 3A28 & 3A29. I'll contact him and see if he is willing to share pictures of them. I have at least one picture of a Serial Number Label from every year except 1965 and 1970. If anyone out there has pictures from those two years 1965 and 1970, I would be happy to add them to the collection. It's kind of interesting. In the period of 1982 to 1984 they sometimes include the designation of the crossover contained in the speaker.

---------------- On 7/19/2005 9:09:33 PM Budman wrote: ---------------- On 7/19/2005 8:50:11 PM Good2BHome wrote: I.B., The explanation requires two parts: Part 1 ALL Cornwalls built up to 1973 were "Verticals". At some point in late 1974 or early 1975, production was converted to the "Horizontal" version. The only "Verticals" made after this conversion were by special order and were usually only singles to match or pair up with a single "Vertical" which a customer already owned. i have a set of verticals with these numbers 4M383 & 4M384 which would make them 1974 ---------------- Budman, Your serial numbers (4M383 and 4M384) are in my database already as Verticals. I have a pair of 1974 CWL's verticals with serial numbers 4M080 and 4M081, ours are almost "cousins". I just don't know when in 1974 or early 1975 the conversion to horizontals was made. st. patrick, "Good2B, it helps . . .. but how about telling us the rest of the story regarding the next time they used the II designation? who, what, why, when, etc. Who ? I don't know. What ? I don't know. Why: "Opinion" Cut costs with Cheaper production methods, MDF and maybe cheaper components. When The accepted date is 1985, I believe. The period from 1981 to 1984 was very hully gully, with all kinds of components especially crossovers. I personally lose interest after 1981. I owned, for a short time, a 1990 pair and they just were not close to a 1980 pair I had, at least to my ears. colterphoto1 You have about five threads worth of questions there. In time. "Whats your take on rebuilding the CW crossovers and the various physical mods" I claim no special knowledge of the current crop of mods that BEC, ALK, DeanG and others are currently doing. I see the same rave reviews from happy customers everyone else does.

I.B., The explanation requires two parts: Part 1 ALL Cornwalls built up to 1973 were "Verticals". At some point in late 1974 or early 1975, production was converted to the "Horizontal" version. The only "Verticals" made after this conversion were by special order and were usually only singles to match or pair up with a single "Vertical" which a customer already owned. Part 2 The very early Cornwalls were called just that "Cornwall". With the introduction of the lettering system to designate production year (in 1962) it seems (I have no direct facts, only an opinion for this) PWK decided to add the "II" designation as a marketing move (like the documented use of starting the Klipschorn serial numbers with number 101 instead of #1, I believe). But, being thrifty PWK used a rubber stamp with a red ink pad on the labels he already had printed. This information comes from three photos of this era. One of the photos I have (and took) comes from the actual examination of the label of a local friend's Cornwall and it is not a felt tip pen "II". This practice continued until some time in 1964-65. At that point the "II" was printed (in black) on the labels. Sometime in 1972 (based on photos I have) the label was significantly redesigned and the "II" designation was dropped. Why? Marketing would be my only guess. It is my understanding and thought, that all Verticals are IIs including the special orders. I would think that requests for the special order Verticals diminished as time went on. I hope this helps.

This is an old, old subject. Back in about 1969-71 either "Stereo Review", "Audio" or one of the other major audio magazines of that era had a 2 or 3 page article on the subject. There was even a piece of the article provided to have your significant other read, so they would know what they were getting themselves into. My future wife (now X) read and accepted that "deal". It ended on other "issues". If any of you have old issues of these magazines, of that period, look it up and post it. It was a pretty funny article. Mike

The Texas contingent grows. There is significant "traffic" on the the DFW Horn website on this subject. A tour of the factory would be really a PLUS! The sooner there is a date , for me, the more likely I will be able to visit Hope again. The last time was Spring of 1973. Good2BHome

I have purchased a McIntosh MX-130. It's in great electrical condition, however 7 of the 8 bulbs that light the faceplate are out. I've replaced the bulbs in earlier Mc's, but this is much more complicated! My question is can they ALL be replaced by the user. After taking the top off and the top rail that holds the faceplate the next step is not apparent. It does not appear that the bottom rail can be removed without the "complete" disassembly of the entire unit! I have pulled 1 bulb out (from the back) by the leads and it appears, that "maybe" I can to get to 7 of 8 using this method. But there is 1 bulb I just will not be able to reach. AND this may not be the right, safe or best way to do it anyway. Does anyone know how to correctly replace ALL the bulbs in a MX-130? Thanks, Mike

---------------- On 6/18/2005 6:00:24 AM Frzninvt wrote: ... Reason for sale I just bought some dual phase plug K-55V's and I need another network without the P-trap for them. I will go back to my originals until I can get a pair made up. Thanks for your interest. ---------------- This may save you both some money and time: I'm not a expert on the electrical / electronic theory of speakers, but if by "dual phase plug K-55V's" you mean the "solder" terminal K-55's Klipsch began using April 3, 1980 (per "Dope From Hope" Vol 19 #1), leaving the P-Trap in the circuit will not cause a problem. It will only be the waste of a P-Trap. I had the opportunity to spend an evening with the inventor of the P-Trap about 9 months ago. I had a "long term borrow" of some P-Traps made by our host for the evening and a long time friend of the inventor. This specific subject came up and the inventor said, that leaving the P-Trap in the circuit would not help or harm the sound.

---------------- On 6/16/2005 11:13:39 PM EDC3 wrote: Rick attached the one SN plate ... here's the other. BTW, what's the consensus on what these are worth? Again ... only minor blemishes, all original, never opened, and autographed by the man himself! ---------------- The price can depend on your patience. The more you have the more you will get. Fact: Since 4/18/04 at least five (5) pairs of Cornwalls have sold between $1400.55 and $1906.00 on eBay . Only one (1) pair were the more treasured Verticals. Three (3) pairs were CWO (as your are) and one (1) was a CBR and one (1) was a CDR (both less desireable). None were signed twice (or even once) by Paul Klipsch!! Only one (1) of these pairs was purchased by a member of this Forum that I am aware of. The $1906.00 price is the record (at least in the last 4+ years I've tracked) on eBay. If I had them, they were very good to great condition and knew what I know, I would not part with them for less than $2000.00. With patience, GOOD pictures and good copy in an eBay ad you can get 1500++ and maybe set a new record. Patience is the key. It would be nice to see pictures of the other signatures and the speakers themselves (good enough to determine condition).

---------------- On 6/13/2005 11:23:34 PM Amy Unger wrote: Usually, it is only people who are just here to cause trouble that are banned. And they are banned permanently. We've never said Allan's ban is permanent. The following is in our policy: You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this BB to post any material which is knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise violative of any law. We do offer warnings first, especially to our more valued members. But repeated abuse in any form listed above cannot be tolerated. Then what's the point of having a policy? And I'm still laughing at Trey=Barney Fife. ---------------- I've been a member for some time. The number of my posts are not very high because I only participate ACTIVELY when I have something positive to contribute or ask a question to increase my knowledge, but I troll everyday. I avoid the conflicts, but this is just TOO much!! To my memory, I've never participated in a thread involving either individual and I know neither. In my opinion Parrot was not just baiting Allen Songer, NO he was stalking him for the purpose of bailing him!!!! But the statement: "We do offer warnings first, especially to our more valued members." IS an open admission of favoritism! I'm sure I've never ever been on your radar until now. But until Parrot is given the same punishment as Allen Songer I am BANNING myself. If one (1) word of this post is edited I will NEVER come back. Some (all?) may not care. I will not reply to any posts about this post. GOOD2BHome (maybe)

From the beginning the original Cornwall II and the Cornwall through 1983 were 100% plywood excluding glue blocks, as previously described, with one exception. On the early models 3/4" pine was used as the connection (I can't think of the right term at the moment) between the sides and what the back screws into and I'd bet also for the same connection to the motorboard. It dries out and shrinks. At some point 1973-74?? they began to use the scrape plywood in its place and it doesn't shrink as much. Either at the beginning or early in the life of the Cornwall II (1980's version) MDF was used. See the Klipsch link below and look toward the bottom. http://www.klipsch.com/product/product.aspx?cid=115&s=specs Now before someone also looks at Klipsch's site at the "Cornwall" and sees it also says MDF, It's WRONG and the picture is WRONG too. Others have owned more and older Cornwalls, but I have owned 5 pair. The oldest a 1974 and the youngest 1990. I've seen over a hundred and what I've said above "IS FACT JACK"! I have never seen 1" of either material used, nor heard it referred to by any credible source.

Russ, Great pictures!! As you know I've been waiting to see them for some time. I have several questions, but time does not permit now. I will post here later this weekend. Again Great work!! "Cousin" Mike

---------------- On 5/3/2005 5:52:19 PM DRBILL wrote: I literally have stacks of old Klipsch documents. I would love to post them to the forum, but my computer skills aren't too hot. This copy was WAY too big to fit a screen. And help will be appreciated. My scanner is a HP 5470c if that helps. Windows XP. DR BILL ---------------- Your skills and selection of a scanner are all excellent IMO (I've never been accused of being humble). Start posting if you have the time. The larger files take more time to download, but the quality is so much better and IMO worth it. Mike

You are correct they are CWL, my mistake. I agree I've owned rougher ones, but rough is rough.

You guys are just way too lazy. I ask the day they were posted. The answer was 36Y978 and 36Y979 (1983). Michael, you need to get out more. A number of sellers of higher dollar items either make that request or refuse to accept bids from low positive feedback bidders. But, I too am suspicious. The pictures are VERY poor. After coping and adjusting them, the Cornwalls look like them may be pretty ruff CWO's with risers.

I tried twice to get the serial numbers from the seller to no avail. Said all he could find was a "B", so the backs may be "a litle ruff" too???

---------------- On 4/16/2005 10:56:27 AM TBrennan wrote: The fella that came up with the P-Trap never claimed all Atlas drivers had the peak or that all should have a P-Trap. SOME of the drivers he tested had the peak, SOME. The fella thinks that those who have a particularly fierce speaker should try the trap. If you think your speaker sounds fine then leave it alone. ---------------- To compliment the above: I had an extended conversation with the P-Trap inventor (over wine and cheese), within the last year. He said about 20-25% of the "push-terminal" Atlas K-55 drivers exhibited the problem. The problem is not present in the "solder-lug" K-55s. These began shipping after March 24, 1980 per "Dope from Hope" # 19-1. Mike

Ya, I ask him what the serial numbers were and told him where to look, since the labels are missing. His answer was "I couldn't find any numbers on the back plywood.". I guess they just peeled off too.