minn_male42

thanks for the reply.... but the issue concerning power is not the overall volume but the peak demands that dynamic soundtracks/music place on the amplifier/receiver.... the funny thing about most of these transient peaks is that most people don't realize that they are clipping the signal and compressing the overall sound until they try a significantly powerful amplifier and suddenly they realize all the sound that they've been missing.... that is the main reason that many home theater people have started using pro amps in their home setups.... tons of power for not much money... there is a huge thread over on avs forum on this topic alone... (see "new amp is making me grin...." in the amp forum)

i think i would take the K2 over the tube system... esp for ML speakers

---------------- On 3/11/2005 2:48:42 PM DrWho wrote: how expensive are the digital tri-path amplifiers going for nowadays? If 30 watts per channel is enough, I think you can get the TEAC 3 channel digital amps for under $100 shipped. Two for $200 and you've got yourself 30x6. TBrennan from the forum has one and he says it sounds very good. The only downside to it is that the volume controls are small and in the back, but if you use a reciever for a preamp, then you won't have to worry about it. ---------------- no offense... but 30 watts per channel is going backwards from what he has right now (50 watts per channel).... and as for power needs - see my post above

---------------- On 3/11/2005 2:43:09 PM streyle wrote: I'd say I'm about 70/30 in favor of movies....I have a fairly small room, maybe 14x10....something along those lines.... I'm not too worried about needing a lot of power.....but I was trying to find something that would help improve my quality..... ---------------- quality does come into play with the power issue.... all of the amps i listed will definitely sound better than a 50 watt receiver... movies and some music can contain very sudden and high transient demands which can instantly require 10 to 30 times the power level of your average listening level.... with very efficient klipsch speakers - the average level might vary from 1 watt to 3 watts or so.... if at 3 watts - you get a 30 times the power demand from the soundtrack and you have a 50 watt per channel receiver, the signal will clip.... in many instances this clipped signal is so quick that you might not hear the distortion.... but if you listen to the same passage again with a 200 watt amplifier, you WILL hear the improvement because now you are getting the full musical waveform and hearing all of the sound...

what is your music/movie mix and how large is your room? if you like your movies loud and your room is medium to large size-wise then i would recommend getting an amp with at least 200 watts per channel... your best bang for the buck is a brand new crown XLS402 amp... under $400 brand new with a 5 year warranty - 260 watts per channel... in the used market there are many very good choices out there.... do some browsing on audiogon for rotel, nad, carver, bryston, aragon, b&k, etc... if you are in a smaller room and your mix might be more music focused, then perhaps some 60 watt tube amps would do the trick.... (i'm not that familiar with tube amp pricing so i hesitate to recommend any specific brand names)

i doubt that the outlaw will be much of an upgrade from your receiver.... a better suggestion might be to spend the $500 on a two channel amp to power your mains and let your receiver power the center and surrounds for now.... and then as funds allow - add additional amps to power the rest of your channels.... i am doing that right now... see my profile for details... you get a much better sounding and more powerful amp for your mains and your two channel listening is greatly improved... just a thought!

sometimes i wonder why i bother.... i post some very valid information and i am totally ignored by the original poster who takes the word of another newbie without asking the size of his room, how loud he listens to his music/movies, or what type of music he listens to.... what might be adequate power for one user of a 65 watt receiver might be totally inadequate to someone else with different tastes in music or a different size room... whatever.... buy what you want.... you can always sell it if it doesn't have enough power because you didn't ask enough questions.... you probably won't lose too much money on the deal..

how many channels do you plan to power with this used amp? for $500 you could get a decent two channel amp, but your won't get much in a 5 or 7 channel amp...

i agree that it is all good news!! the more partners klipsch has the stronger the company will be!

next klipsch will be buying general motors to install klipsch speakers in cars.... KLIPSCH = WORLD DOMINATION!!!!

another great affordable option would be the dvp-nc685 from sony... a five disc DVD/CD/SACD changer that sells for $149 at ultimate electronics... http://www.ultimateelectronics.com/shopping/product/detailmain.jsp?itemID=4401&itemType=PRODUCT&iMainCat=1531&iSubCat=1751&iProductID=4401 i have an older sony model that was the predessor to this model and it does an excellent job!

hey guys! if you are using speakers with horn drivers, you should be one or two steps ahead of everyone else in this "room treatment" game... the horns are much more directional than the dome tweeters that spread music in all directions check out the following high end home theater setup from jbl synthesis.... about $120,000 just for the speakers and electronics (projector not included) http://www.jblsynthesis.com/products/system_overview.aspx?prod=SYN-HERCULES&Language=ENG&Country=US&Region=USA jbl uses horns to control dispersion and to make room treatments less extensive.... one of my customers in my last job was a jbl synthesis installer and told me that necessary room treatments with horns were about half as extensive as compared to speaker with all cone drivers...

---------------- On 3/11/2005 6:30:07 AM bytor33 wrote: .....I would like the 630 but can't bring myself to spend a little over $100 more for a little more wattage as 65 per channel should be enough for a RB-25 system shouldn't it?...... ---------------- ah yes.... the ultimate power question.... are 65 watts per channel enough? depends on the size of your room - how loud you like to listen to your music - what type of music you listen to? average listening levels with klipsch speakers are usually in the 1 to 2 watt range in a small room... a large room can make the average possibly up to 3 or 4 watts... but the real need for more power comes in when you watch movies with high transient demands as well as music that is very dynamic... those transient demands can easily call for 10 to 30 times the average power level if your average level happens to be 3 watts and a sudden transient calls for 30 times the power output, your 65 watts will not be able to handle it and your amp will clip and distort the signal i run a pioneer elite vsx-55txi receiver ($1500 retail) that is rated at 100 watts per channel and i felt that with my listening style and my room size (26' x 16') that it was underpowered on my KLF-30's.... i added a 225 watt per channel outboard amplifier and there is a definite improvement in sound at all levels... the carver professional ZR amp is a digital amp and that does account for some of the differences but with movies and some of my classical music selections i have seen peaks of well into the 150 watt range (led meters on my amp)... bottom line - is 65 watts enough?..... maybe.... in your situation, i would recommend a receiver with good processing features, a low noise floor and preouts on the back..... use it for awhile and if you feel you need more power you can always pick up an outboard amp to increase your headroom for under $500... pro amps from crown do a great job or the many used amps out there on audiogon and ebay...

http://www.usingenglish.com/reference/idioms/snake-oil-salesperson.html

http://www.usingenglish.com/reference/idioms/snake-oil-salesperson.html

---------------- On 3/10/2005 1:25:39 AM bytor33 wrote: Hi, I'm in the process of building my first true home theater setup and am stuck on what entry based receiver to buy. I have 2 RB-25's as front left and right, an RC-25 for center, and 2 RS-25's for my surrounds. I'll be getting an SVS PB10-ISD sub also unless someone can recommend something better in that price range that hits the low frequencies that I want. I've read about the bright sound of Yamahas with Klipsch speakers but I'm not too concerned about that. Basically what will give me a better value in the $300 - $500 range? I've been looking at the Denon AVR1705 and Yamaha RX-V550 so far. Thanks for any suggestions! ---------------- a very highly recommended receiver in many different forums is the pioneer vsx-1014.... about $400 or so... this receiver has the auto eq/room correction feature which can really help your speakers sound their best in your room.... another very good choice would be a panasonic XR-50 or XR-70.... 6 channels of digital amplification produce a very clean accurate sound...

---------------- On 3/10/2005 12:20:12 PM markus111 wrote: These were featured in AudioXpress magazine several issues ago. As I remember, he had his grad students put most of the pieces together. I believe his critique was that the sound and imaging were very good, but there wasn't a whole lot of bass below 50 Hz. I wonder if there is a matching sub? Mark ---------------- click on the pdf link on the page after you get to the site.... scroll down... there is a pic of two very tall 24" sonotubes he uses for bass... http://passdiy.com/pdf/KleinHorn2.pdf on page 3 of 10

---------------- On 3/10/2005 4:42:17 PM DrWho wrote: What you're suggesting is exactly what I suggest to people even considering buying it all at once. In the long run you are saving yourself a lot of money by purchasing a very nice set of mains. A pair of RF-7's with the 3805 is indeed a very nice setup. Down the road, you'll probably want to purchase a center channel, then some surrounds, and then a subwoofer (well that's the order I would go anyway). Some like to get a subwoofer early on, but your RF-7's will be digging down to 30Hz with no problem. ---------------- buying the mains and then adding slowly is definitely the way to go.... although i personally would buy a sub after i get the mains.... the RF-7's are only rated down to 32 hz +/- 3db... so they are down at least 3db at 32 hz... running your mains with your receiver/processor set to phantom center will give you a very good front soundstage, but you will be missing a great deal of your LFE (low frequency effects) channel without a sub.... additionally, a sub can add that bottom octave to your music listening as well.... i run a sub with my KLF-30's even in two channel listening and it adds a nice low end....

---------------- On 3/9/2005 11:52:08 AM NOSValves wrote: This is the first time I have ever heard someone comment that Klipsch were hiding the flaws in bad recordings LOL !! ---------------- it's phrased that way.... but it also means that his high buck thiels are just really not that good... imagine when he hears some RF-7's....

*sigh* another thread in which the troll has no clue as to what he is talking about...

very low humidity is bad because it causes static problems but it also causes health problems.... a 40% to 50% humidity in your home greatly reduces static problems and is much better for your sinuses, lips, and skin.... in northern climates with forced air furnaces, humidity will drop as low as 10% and is not good.... i've used a humidifier for years and it is a much better solution than a can a "static guard"... conversely, i also use a dehumidifier in the summer to get the moisture level down to that 40% to 50% mark...

i don't think so... as soon as you touch that lead, you will get a shock.... i always kind of hit my metal rack.... that way i don't feel the shock

---------------- On 3/9/2005 9:06:02 AM Champagne taste beer budget wrote: That makes perfect sense to me. Still not sure though how touching one item first will prevent a shock when touching another item that has sufficient potential. I can see dissipating your charge into something else by touching it, but how does that effect the potential of the next item you touch? And wouldn't you still get a shock from touching the first item? ---------------- you will get a shock when you touch the first item..... but it dissapates the charge.... so now the potential differences are greatly diminished and now when you touch the amp/receiver there is no shock...

---------------- On 3/8/2005 7:22:02 PM Shadowtester wrote: I am looking at wall mounting a pair of RB-35's and need some recomendations for wall brackets to use. I would like to be able to tilt the speakers downward. I would also like some recomendations for wall mounting RS-35's also again I would like to tilt the speakers downward as well. Thanks Jeff ---------------- the best aftermarket mounts are from omnimount... http://www.omnimount.com/product.asp?p=53 you can get them in rear mount, bottom mount or top mount....

---------------- On 3/8/2005 4:05:17 PM SHUFF wrote: I guess the thought of venturing too far beyond the fundamental is terrifying for you. By the way, your "Googling" wasn't very thorough, at one time this text was available as a free download on-line, no need to spend a dime, just a little time. ---------------- you know nothing about me or what i read or don't read.... what my interests are or what i like beyond audio.... but you can make all the ASSumptions that you want to.... that's what trolls do.... i was just trying to get a straight answer from you..... but i guess that is beyond your limitations... "available at one time" does not mean that it is available now.... unless you care to list a link....