geoff.
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Posts posted by geoff.
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3 hours ago, chuckears said:
Did it. Have some skill if you wish to attempt it all on your onesie... I took my time and had the usual frustrations with little silly things. The autoformer loves to be in the way every time you turn the board over - I didn't really wish to de-solder either it or the hook-up to the terminal cup.
I've only performed it on one speaker thus far, and can't claim to hear a difference - not nearly as much as when I Crites-ed my Fortes several years ago. I chose to go factory with this re-cap, since I wasn't familiar with the Chorus II "sound" (that, and the $500-plus cost of the Crites boards is currently a little off-putting).
A before-and-after comparison of frequency sweeps using ARC Genesis doesn't show much change either... my guess is that the original caps were still within spec. I at least have the satisfaction of knowing it's doable, and that these caps should be good for quite a while. Not sure it was worth taking up most of a morning of a day off, but now I know.
@chuckears, my experience with recapping a pair of Chorus 2 crossovers was pretty much inline with yours.
I could not tell a noticeable difference one way or the other either. Mine was a few years back using retarded cheap (at the time… everything is doubled or tripled now) Erse and Bennic polyester caps before the JEM phenomenon was what all the new kids were into.
Had the same “meh” moment with a pair of B-3 crossovers similarly recapped.
In both cases I chocked it up to the stock capacitors likely still operating in spec.
A pair of AAs with the “cans” however, was another story all-together, DAY AND NIGHT. Up until that point I could not understand why anyone liked the AA crossovers. Tried them in La Scalas with the AL and AL-3 stock and each time was let down. It was as if the tweeters were missing until the recap.
Already had a pair of Chorus 2s but got the crossovers cheap off eBay as an experimental pair, likely from someone who went the Crites route as I didn't get a terminal cup, and just like you I remember dreading dealing with that delicate autoformer. To make sure I didn’t dig myself deeper into a hole I “breadboarded” them.
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The schematics for the crossovers in question would answer that.
Just about every Klipsch tweeter circuit for the above mentioned models looks the same though, a constant K using either 1.5 or 2 uF capacitors with a .16mH coil in between them.
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In case you want to ponder this “Klipsch approved upgrade”.
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If you leave the iron on the capacitor leads too long you will fry the capacitors. Leave the leads as long as they come.
I am not even sure a 25 Watt iron is up to the task. The wires will suck up a lot of the heat before they “tin”.
Many people, myself included use aligator clips clamped across the capacitor leads as a heat sink. I have even put a tiny bit of moistened sponge inside the clips when the leads are really short (salvaged from another project) in addition to a clamp or as many as I can fit.
There are really cheap “automatic wire strippers” that may come in handy.I would be inclined to leave the original caps right where they are on the board and leave a couple inches of wire still soldered to each cap. There is a lot of real estate for the new caps beside them on those boards. Or, if you are worried about the “cans” eventually leaking you could pull them off, but leave a couple inches of wire on them, just in case…
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Andy, any bass bin will sound awful without ALL of the other drivers playing nicely with each other. It’s remarkably lame on it’s own. As are each of the other drivers.
The Kappa 15C woofer is an excellent bass bin choice for a La Scala sized box, the Peavey FH-1 bins in the picture below have them, and I have tried them in La Scalas. The K-43 is stock in the bass bins for the LSI tops in the picture below and it is very comparable to the Kappa 15C. I prefer either the K-43 or the Kappa 15C over the K-33 in THESE bins, without a doubt. They both have more to give on the hand off to the squawker. A Klipschorn would favour the K-33, without a doubt, as BOTH it’s low frequency, and high frequency cutoff is significantly lower.
Having said that, you could try crossing at 425 or 450hz to the squawkers, maybe a 12db slope?
As an aside, at the moment I am playing with different crossovers in/on the top tophats. The bottom tophats are my reference with polyester re-capped AA crossovers. They have become the crossover all others are compared too. The tweeters look different but both have the same DE-120 drivers behind the lenses.
*** The suggestion to go full passive is sound, no pun intended. You will know right away if something is amiss with your active settings.
There are some caveats regarding the Kappa 15Cs though, MINE (two pairs over five years, still have both pairs) took about 50 hours to break in. AND the gaskets are made with a pool noodle type foam that makes it difficult to compress the woofer tightly to the doghouse. Many have replaced that gasket with a paper gasket.
*** If the woofer is not solidly coupled to the doghouse you will lose everything that is magic about a folded horn. Improper padding inside the doghouse will have a similar effect. The original La Scalas had ZERO padding, the new ones have one sheet laid on the woofer from what I could discern in a Klipsch production video. If the passive route shows no improvement you may want to open the doghouse and see what’s shakin’ inside.
Try the full AA passive with some decent solid state and let us know how it went, please.
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I’ve said this before, but there was a pair of B&W speakers locally years ago that were stupid cheap, but were totally encased in marble. Four longitudinal slots let the music escape.
The seller actually mentioned in his eBay ad that was the only way his wife would let him put the speakers in the living room.
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1 hour ago, SWL said:
Anyone else having issues with the quote function?
Yes, other functions are moody too since the update.
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Given their similar ESR would it be a safe assumption to say Klipsch is using mylar for the woofer bypass because of their longevity over electrolytics?
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If the risers are anything like the ones on the models I’ve had there would be a screw on the inside of each corner accessible when the speaker is turned over.
Maybe, go slow, and tip one over and have a look? Snap a picture and let us see what you find.
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Those values would have been electrolytics.
I see Klipsch is now using mylars on the large values in new models. They would be larger than a comparable electrolytic too.
What I can’t find is a thread on here from a decade ago where one of the esteemed members backed up his assertion that replacing electrolytics with a different dielectric has a similar effect as replacing a mylar with a polypropylene. Reactances are different so the resultant sound is altered.
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Sweet!
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…2020
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7 minutes ago, KT88 said:
This is the joke of history. We talk about the cheapest caps and in a few years no one builds them anymore. In the 1960s and 70s in Germany in every kitchen radio and TV set were Telefunken ECC83 tubes (12AX7 for you). At that time price in today's money maybe 2 USD. Today 500 USD NOS.
…we have them in our basements here in Canada, lol
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Regarding polyester capacitors and the link I provided previously to the Canadian company that still has them.
If anyone chooses to go this route you will want to confirm the ones you order are in fact still polyester.
Apparently ERSE is not supplying them anymore so some values have been replaced with Dayton polypropylenes as they run out.
This thread got me thinking and I want to do an apples to apples comparison with a polyester A crossover soon to be built.
My order just arrived. Hence the caveat.
Cheers!
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I’m up in Canada.
SOMETIMES, IF an eBay vendor uses global shipping you can catch a break and you don’t pay more for shipping than the object costs.
The sad thing is couriers are now cheaper than the respective post offices. And faster, by a large margin.
Gas is pricey here too, damned if you do, damned if you don’t.
After a couple hours one way shipping starts to make sense, unless you’re going that way. Sometimes fate smiles upon us.
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@KT88, I just paid $150 shipping from the states for a K-48 woofer. They rarely come up for sale and the shipping was more than the actual winning bid. But my KP-301s aren’t gonna cut it without one.
I live only 2 hours from the U.S. border, but what a difference that border makes to everyone outside of it.
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Too anyone who has made it this far.
If you haven’t tried polyester caps you may be in for an ear-opener, depending on what was in there to begin with, and what replaced them.
The first time I used them years ago was on a pair of B-3 networks, and because I heard ZERO difference I thought they were a waste of money.
The second time I used them more recently was on a pair of Chorus 2 networks, same story, ZERO difference, thought them a waste of money and a little more time (trickier work).
The reality is the capacitors probably did not need replacing…
Not too long before this thread started I recapped a pair of AA networks with inexpensive polypropylene capacitors AND built a second pair of AA networks (using the same T2A and 2.5mH coils from a repurposed pair of E boards) using CHEAP polyester caps. The difference was not subtle.
I liked the polyester AAs so much they are my reference. I swap out other boards on the top tophat for comparisons. Polyester AAs permanently sealed up in the bottom set, there is an identical stack outside of the picture to the right. The switch from tophats takes seconds. I also removed the grab handles on the top set and screwed a barrier strip on the opening for quicker board changes.
The tweeters have been changed (same drivers in each, apples to apples), but they won’t be named to protect the innocent. IYKYK… nuff said.
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20 AWG is 0.8mm (0.812mm)
https://www.hificollective.co.uk/index.php/catalog/inductors/jantzen-air-core-wire-coil-20awg.html
This is the first vendor I could find.
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Parts Express does not stock polyester caps to the best of my search abilities, unless you pull them off one of their pre made boards.
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It looks like two 6uF capacitors twisted and soldered together?
The schematic calls for one?
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…what the heck is going on with those 6uF caps?
Klipsch Shorthorn crossover
in Ask the Historian
Posted
…may find information on a shorthorn a tall order?