hwatkins

Patrick Moraz - self titled album - was the Keyboard player for the one YES album hiatus that Rick Wakeman took. St. Louis or Philadelphia Philharmonics - both have excellent recordings that are generally artfully mastered.

Well Moon - you need a little more support so here goes -- I tend to agree on the Belle LF (we must share the same ears from different parents). My old Khorns fit the bill much better. I never could get quite the same sound from Belles or LS - especially in a smaller room. If I augment with a sub, I tend to the Heresy. Go with your ears and thanks for being so inquisitive. Having said this - My near perfect setup for the front HT/music would be a couple of Khorns and a Belle center (since my HT would include a sub). If I had to chose between Belles and heresy for Two channel (subless) - I would go with the Belles. I want to make it clear how confused I am....

Bracing is one of those 'no lose' ideas. Even if you can get the results you want unbraced, bracing will not damage the sound. If your box is on the edge of needing bracing, as yours is, you will definitely not have to worry about whether you should have done it. There is a strong chance that bracing will improve the sound, or at least keep your box sounding good over time. Also, since this is interior stuff it doesn't fall into that meticulous carpentry category that the exterior requires. Plain old ugly scraps can usually do the trick. As always this is IMHO...

One last thing - The Klipschorns sound lousy on the highway - no good corners. The Porsche doesn't match the color scheme in my listening room. Therefore, each has their place...

Hey Bruinsrme - Is that a picture of the Stanley Cup that will be spending the summer in St. Louis?

Got to defend my 'lowly' old 1997 BMW Z3. I have driven it since its 12th mile. A Dinan trilogy (cold air intake, exhaust, software mods), 17 inch borbet wheels, wider rubber, tower brace, butt strut and boby brace make this a fabulous roadster. I and a buddy trade off drives (his is a 1999 Boxter S) and the BMW is right there and then some with a Boxster S (comparing ewquivalent years). We both agree that the BMW is a significant winner on speed out of corners but the Boxster is more agile (I prefer the Boxster's shorter shift throw as well). My total dollars in the car is about 9K less than the Boxster. Decent deal. As to 911 - yep, it is in the real sports car category. Even the non-turbo versions will make your butt stick hard to the seat. The new Carrera's on the Boxster platform are also oustanding. I am looking at recent year 911 to park next to my BMW - and yes, the Z3 will really be the 'lowly' one of the two cars then...

Just for fun - I just finished a non horn (how dare I?) pair of Pi speakers to home my woodworking before going to a horn build. This is finished in oak with an art deco grille that matches our old victrola in the same room. These will go to college with daughter when she moves out of dorm...

Your issue with the woofers should still be more baffle related than Xover. I imagine that the near 4 ohm final config should be fine. I falter when trying to analyze the effect at your chosen Xover to the mid range - but a 4 ohm load should keep that pass reasonable and will not cause your amp to do any mean spirited things. Further, if you are moving the LF to a sub you have less of an issue in trying to tune to a real low freq and can work with a sealed box - this produces consistent results to models compared to ported boxes. I think it will work in a very pleasing way. It will have some color and some freq sweep anomalies that are probably only blatantly obvious in measured environments. I imagine you will end up with a clear dialog device, excellent music center and a matching blend that will keep you smiling. You will get some great off-axis fill that makes HT relevant to those not in the sweet spot. Just keep those fingers clear of the saw blade!!!

Us Eastern Arkansas folks have to agree. I grew up in Hamburg. We would go 7 miles east to Overflow Hill (It is the southern edge of Crowley's Ridge) where the great Mississippi River flood of 1927 was stopped from moving farther west and we could see directly into Mississippi - right at the edge of vision allowed by the curve of the planet. To my right I could see into Louisiana. Bayous, small gators, heat, humidity, rice, soybeans, cotton, mosquitoes, River Lakes, Cypress stump lakes (marshes?), catfish, crappie, gar, frog gigging, pine tree farms, paper mills, no liquor sales and high school football stadiums that hold more folks than there are in the town. Now if that don't make Norman Rockwell rise from the grave, nothing will...

Having a conversation with the seller and getting a good feeling is the best method. I have used MO/Cashier check before and as yet have a problem. As well as the cash situation, PayPal adds a fee that many sellers object to (I think the gaurantee is worth it). I still use MO/Cashier Check with my Canadian friends. All works well, just adds about a week to delivery.

You may be just fine if your corners are not too far apart. I have my side speakers about 5 feet in from the back wall and the two rear speakers are very nice. Sound in a good 6 channel DVD will quite literally flow from back to front and vice versa. I could not imagine wanting to go back to a 5.1 in my room.

I like what you are trying to do - it looks like you are putting together a little bit of the best of both world's. I attempted some modeling similar to what you are doing, but kept getting too much past my confidence point. I had this nagging thought that if I took the time to delve into the Xovers and gain knowledge that your idea would be the better way to go. I will be watching for your results...

I am right there with you except on George Bush and Republicans: I think George W. really is full of integrity, just not backed by a strong intellect. Sometimes that is helpful, it reduces the internal turmoil caused by forecasting the cascade effect of actions. I have the unfortunate situation where my two closest friends are Republicans - We are all way too much alike to be labeling groups of people as different and to be disliked. Sounds like things are rough right now. I feel your pain on some levels - Friends and family dying slowly (I guess we all are), close friend's sudden death and two weeks ago had to put my dog friend of 15 years to a peaceful sleep. All I can say is that there has been in all cases (so far) in my life a silver lining in those dark clouds. If you can see through the murk with some optimism you may get some welcomed surprises and wisdom. Keep your chin up...

I think they will be just fine if you are using a reciever (or multiple amps) that allows you to independently adjust the level of each speaker as is the case on most mid-fi on up HT processors. Over time you will probably notice more and more that there is not a seamless HF match, but I am not sure what that will mean to your ears. Let us know how it sounds to you...

Macolm Thanks for keeping me near the facts. I wasn't sure of the K77M.

With two ten inchers you may run into a problem without some baffle work like Trey mentioned. You can get by with a flat baffle with 6.5 inchers without causing major problems with the width box you are making (more specifically you get limited 'colorations' that may not be noticable since you are getting greater separation - I believe the baffle modeling software - don't quote me here- suggest the speakers be as far apart as half the wavelength of the tuned frequency). With smaller woofers you generally give up the low end. If you wire in parallel expect 3 db gain in efficiency (assuming 8 ohms) with the E crossover. Your biggest concern with this is the high pass - the E is set up for 700hz and it will really be noticable if there is too much from the woofer moving into the K-55's territory. With limited crossover modification you would be more interested in matching the T/S of the K-22 which the E was made to match with your two woofers. There has been discussion of changes needed for the K77M as well. The E crossover was for the K77 tweeter. In other words, I think STL is on the right path - you will need crossover work as well as baffle to get this perfect. However - perfect is very hard to achieve. Try it, I can't see any real issue unless there is too much juice allowed to the tweeter (but something tells me that is very slight) that would cause damage. Let us know. BTW- I have a made a center - 37"x9"x15" (golden rule sized box) with K77, K55 w/700 lens, type E Xover and two fostex woofers. I used the K-22 specs to get my woofer match. I use the SVS for anything below 80hz, so deep lowend wasn't an issue, just a good roll off in the 80hz range. The purist would (and has) scream, but it measures darn well. Besides, the room is WAF purty so I get enough reflections to make the coloration unnoticable. And yes, I do love that speaker and its match to the heresys scattered around the room. Cheers

kjohnsonhp has it right. Same speakers all around is the best of both worlds. Music is tight and HT is vivid. I fiddled until I ended up with a bunch of heresys and can't imagine changing.

Geez - I don't know how I missed this thread earlier. Sure is fun reading through here. Since Colin did say you are to be ashamed by this, here goes - With the B&O 1700 Beogram TT, HK430 and Heresy I downstairs in my office - whenever I put on The Monkees Greatest Hits (yep, really does have music on both sides) and get to 'Daydream Believer' I stop all, close my eyes and drift into the song (this is really what happens). There, I am now out of the closet...

I have yet to find no noise from a SS amp. Denon (I have the 3802) is a specific culprit with all high efficiency speakers. However, this noise is as you say only truly detectable in very near field (less than 12 inches). It is not an issue with reproducing the sounds at any reasonable listening position or volume. While many will tell you this does not occur with some of the finest tubes I have found that to be wrong in my limited experience - just a lot less noticable due to the very low power used (in other words, you may have to put your ear right next to the speaker). None of this should be a problem in your listening. Caveat - if this is noticable and bothersome you should take a look at the reciever as a culprit. If no flaws there or in your source, then you may be one of the few that finds this too annoying and you should look at units that handle this better - tubes, Rotel, Bryston, etc. For me the difference is not significant. Let your ears be your guide...

Colin Nicely said and thoughtful. cheers

---------------- On 3/31/2003 7:56:17 AM bruinsrme wrote: supporting the missiles and driving a 560 foot black tube with 24 nukes thru the water without hitting any uncharted sea mountains anf other ships and so on. ---------------- An excellent perspective on reality - you guys are making me smile twice in one thread....

---------------- On 3/31/2003 2:40:40 AM TBrennan wrote: Did you share make-up and cross-dressing tips with J. Edgar Hoover? ---------------- Finally - a laugh out loud portion of this thread. Still snickering....

I can't come up with a good reason to remove the insulation. At the worst you listen with and without to see what you like best. I was smiling and had tongue firmly in cheek about the Academys. I am in a speaker building kick for now. A set of horns with cone woofer after this pair, then on to a three way horn set up - maybe all wood horns. I hate myself when I get this way....

Kain - Saw your powerpoint - Be careful of evangelistic logic. There will always be those that profit from the war and the after-war. Unfortunately though, war is generally begun by the sensitive, passionate or fanatical - the profiteers are simply opportunistic. As things progress, it will become easy to develop a conspiracy theory, but a closer look at all the facts would mean that those folks would have to be much smarter than they have shown themselves to be in the past. I appreciate your passion, but I also encourage you to dig into those facts and see if the trail is as obvious as the last thoughts try to make them. To all - I will repeat a strong opinion - A suicide murderer is in most cases a coward. It absolves the purpetrator from responsibility. At its worst leaders will use them as weapons and will go so far as to limit their gas and chain them to the wheel (Kamikaze) or threaten to kill their loved ones if they do not do the act. At its best it is an act of desperation. Suicide murder by the brave is when the act saves more people than it kills or injures. 9/11 doesn't qualify as a brave act.

Hello Dave - Yep on the center. A picture is attached (a black grille cover went on before it went on top of TV). It is a very good change for my system and is now turned on for music as well. The Xover, Tweeter and sqwuaker are direct matches to the Heresy. The woofers are Fostex and carry a very similar efficiency when wired in parallel. Since I manage to the sub at 80 hz they are a very responsive match to the K-22 on the Heresy - but if you listen closely you can tell a difference around 100hz. So I have learned a bunch. I am building the cabinets this afternoon for my new project - 2pi studio speakers. This can eventually go to school with my daughter. As to infinite baffle (real IB is open with nothing around it for quite some range)- granted the cavity isn't much, but it allows the back wave to disipate without affecting the overall movement of the woofer. When you put a box around that the chances increase that there is an effect that may cause some problems (where the woofer wants to move back and is met by a sound wave pushing it forward). If the box is big enough, most of this would be mitigated. Opening to the wall would solve this. Insulation is generally not a problem. It is often used in speakers to increase the percieved box size - in essence, part of that back wave is absorbed and not fighting the cone's excursion. This is probably as easy as you think - I would just open the wall cavity - the metal should not cause a problem... Now as to those Acadameys - ready to sell? If I build the box for your new speakers will you give me the Academys (just a thought)