Shockoman

Cornwalled, Which inputs on the pre are you using? Phono or line? I would suggest using the line level inputs for the CD player. Bob

Thanks for the comments...I don't have the room either for a Heritage center or surrounds... the RC3 and RB5s are going to have to stay for a while. So, I'll reword my question...Has anyone investigated the crossovers in the Reference units? Does anyone have the specs for the crossovers? Thanks Bob

I have recently upgraded the caps in my 1980 CWs. I used the recipe used by many here...AudioCaps from Parts Express and restrung the internal wiring from the stock to 12 ga for the tweeter & squawker and 10 ga for the woofer. Also replaced the binding posts on the back to Cardas 5 ways and 10 ga from there to the xover input ...what a difference! Even without any burn in, the difference was absolutely astounding! All the descriptors already used apply.."lifted the veil, opened the soundstage, solidified the imaging" etc.....thanks to all for the great reading and recommendations. The CWs serve as the fronts in my home theatre also..I have an RC3 as a center and RB5s as surrounds and was now wondering would a crossover upgrade or mod help the difference in voicing in the Reference units? Does anyone have any recommendations? Thanks in advance... Bob

Thanks for the reply and the info on HTPC. I've been doing some research on cabinets and cooling and agree one of the biggest issues is noise..especially in an HT setup where you want it as quiet in the room as possible. That's is another reason I put the estimated cost at about $1K. The case and appropriate, quiet cooling! Been looking at the Ahanix cases..they look like they would really fit in an HT environment and offer black cases which is what I want to stay with. The M-Audio 24/96 is the card I was looking at also. Since most of my current library is CD based, it looks like it would be a good option. I have some vinyl, but not nearly as many as CD's. Thanks again for the input. Bob

Rob, I have just done this upgrade, actually thru D*. They sent me the Samsung 360. So far I like it a lot. I have a Pioneer Elite Pro530 and they are a good combo. I am using the component video connection. The HD picture is outstanding! Got a good deal from D* also. If you are contemplating getting the unit thru them, be sure to call the "retention" folks at 800-600-8977, not the standard 800 number...better deals for sure..check out the AVS Forum for all the details. BTW, if you have more than 1 STB right now and get the local channel pkg, they will also upgrade your old non-HD unit if it doesn't do the local channels. My older Sony B50 didn't do the locals and they sent me a new unit that does at no charge!!! It is an RCA DRD 435RH..works great in the bedroom! Good Luck..Bob

Thanks for opening this thread. I too have been looking into DACs and their potential effects. I opened a thread in Sound Cards/General on this topic with a bit of a twist..no feedback so far there. I was looking for feedback on whether an outboard DAC or the DACs on an M-Audio card for example, in an HTPC/Jukebox combo would be a better setup. Don't mean to hijack this thread, but any comments along that line? I have been looking at the Perpetual Technolgies units as a possibility. Their P-1A, P-3A and P3 power supply look interesting and can be had on Audiogon for about the $1K level you are looking at. Anybody have any feedback on these units? Thanks in advance... Bob

Finger check..double post ...sorry

I have a question about which option is better in the long run. My current CD/DVD player is a 3 year old Onkyo DV-M301 connected to my Onkyo TX-DS787. Since either a HTPC, (DIY) or used DAC will run me about $1K, which one would be a better price/performer. The HTPC will provide more functionality, but would a good quality sound card, like an M-Audio, be a good alternative to a DAC like a Perpetual Tech PA1-PA3 combo? The HTPC would likely be built in stages, the first being the audio jukebox/DVD player.. Thanks in advance for your comments and assistance Bob

Max and fellow Forum Members.. As a committed "lurker", I follow this forum on a daily basis. From a technical standpoint, I do not repond much because in most cases I am over my head. This discussion I believe is more "perception" than technical, so I'll jump in. I have been an audio enthusiast for over 30 years. During that time I have owned my fair share of SS amps along with records and CD's. It is only since I have been reading this forum that I have ventured into the world of tubes and high efficiency speakers and thought about the music on different levels. My HT is built around Klipsch Reference and 100+ wpc SS. It also served as my music system. I recently went down a completely different path. I bought a PP tube amp and a pair of '80 CWs. I really enjoyed the sound from my HT/Music system. It can "rock the house" if I am in that mood or provide the "sooth the savage beast" tranquility we all somethimes need. It is only since I became involved with this forum did I start to look deeper into the music. To my ears the tubes and CWs do sound different. Better? For me it's too early to really tell. I like the way the tubes/CW mix sounds. My next challenge will be a playback device, upgraded CD player more than likely. Will it change the way I perceive the music, I hope so. I guess that is what I am trying to acheive....does the music sound better to me. That occurs on at least 2 levels also. How does it sound AND how does it make me feel... My wife and I have this discussion occasionally. She is happy with the under the cabinet CD player/AM/FM radio the kids get her for Christwas a few years ago. She doesn't get all this "nonsense" I go through. It is now having a bigger effect because the living room is filled with various sized boxes(speakers)and electronics. Also I now "listen to the music" vs "hear the music". Big difference in my mind. Now I look for soundstage, depth of field, instrument placement etc etc etc...do I enjoy it better? on some levels a resounding YES on another level it has become "work". Will that change over time, I hope so. I haven't delved into the different circuit topologies and their variations yet. That may come later as my tastes/perceptions or expectation change. All I can say is I listen to the music differently, because my expectations are different now. I guess I am chasing an elusive target. Will different technology interpretations help in that chase, I don't know..I am still growing as are my preceptions and expectations of what the music sounds like and does for me. Thanks for allowing me to "lurk and grow" Bob

Also try Blue Jeans Cable. I have a component video set and a digital audio from him. I like them a lot! http://www.bluejeanscable.com Bob

Question for the digital 2 channel gurus out there.... I'm sure there are several folks that use DACs and/or other types of signal processing to soften the hard edges of CD recording technology. I am curious whether to include something like the Perpetual Technolgies PA-1&PA-3 in my plans or would I be better served by one of the "analog sounding" decks like the Rega, the AH! or similar player. Opinions and suggestions....please Thanks Bob

Everyone, thanks for the feedback. I didn't have my thinking cap all the way on when I first posted and didn't make the connection with the bass mgmt already provided by my receiver. I was thinking that it just worked for DD & DTS on DVD-V. Or am I still confused? Will my receivers bass mgmt work with the multichannel input from the add-on player? I was thinking that using the multichannel input would just be a straight shot from the inputs in the preamp to the power amp and all the signal manipulation had to be done in the DVD-A/SACD player. I also did find a couple web spots/reviews that indicated the Pioneer had full bass mgmt included. And, as pointed out the new Pioneer receiver has the firewire connection that might be a value later on. However, any new receiver I buy will have to be "upgradeable" via a download or the like. I am weary of spending good money ($1K+) on a receiver, only to have it obsoleted in less than 6 months by a new format or some bug found in a CMOS chip than be fixed by a code upgrade. Sure wish there was a place in town I could audition these beasts before I pull the trigger...

I have been considering adding a combo DVD-A/SACD player. I've come across 2 that could be possibilities..Onkyo DV SP800 or the Pioneer DV 47ai. Reviews indicate both to be quality players in both video and audio. The only knock I can find on either is in the area of Bass Management. The unit would be used primarily for music for now. I understand the importance of Bass Mgmt in HT. My current setup includes: RB5s in front with a KV1 center and RS3s for surrounds. The sub is Cerwin Vega 15" 250 watt version. 2 questions, is Bass Mgmt that important for music? and any feedback on these players or other suggestions.. Thanks in advance... Bob

Craig..at least you got a reply! I've sent several e-mails to parts and tech support trying to locate the grill cover logos for the '81 CWs I bought earlier this year. I've gotten nothing back from them..very disappointing! Shockoman

Kelly, A guy takes a couple days off from lurking, only to find a welcome contributor has returned...welcome back! Bob

sseymour Checkout the site at www.hometheaterhifi.com/masterindex_diy_projects.html It is a DIY sonotube sub project by Ron Stimpson, one of the guys at SVS. I have not built it yet, but is has got to be pretty good, considering its pedigree. Bob

HDBR Thanks for the info on the materials. Sounds like you have a great deal of experience with these cabinets. You will be a valued addition to the forum. Any thoughts on a way to repair the corner separation? Also, any ideas on the vintage of them? Thanks This message has been edited by Shockoman on 04-20-2002 at 09:16 AM

Well, as Paul Harvey would say, "this is the rest of the story" I started this thread because I bought the drivers and X-overs from a pair of CWs on ebay. I was looking for help in building a new set of cabinets. The old cabinets were for sale but the owner didn't want to ship them out of the LA area. Well, he found no takers and was about to throw them in the trash. One of his neighbors, I believe a true Klipschter at heart, found out and contacted me to see if I wanted them for just the cost of shipping. We verified the cost, $60 via FedEx for both so he packed them up and sent them. They arrived today. Looks like 1 of the cabinets was dropped on a corner at one time because one of the miters has separated in one corner. Other than that, they are definitely refurbishable. It looks like they are birch. The SNs are hard to make out because they were written in red ink, but I think they are COL 28W099 and COL 28W100. Grill cloth looks fine except the logo plates have been removed. Thanks to all who have provided assistance, support, comments and measurements. I still may make a set of "verticle" cabinets but for now the pressure for cabinets is off.

Mobile, I guess I am REALLY CORNFUSED now! The 2 pics you included in your previous post depict the tweeter/midrange and ALK x-over, in a horizontal plane within the cabinet, above and left of the woofer: aka Allan's 1960's CW's...this is called the VERTICAL dvr config? The 2nd photo, aka Mobile's 1970's CWs, shows the tweeter, midrange, woofer in a vertical plane within the cabinet with the x-over mounted on the side wall...this is called the HORIZONTAL dvr config? It makes sense that dispersion and imaging could be wider/better using Allan's config. Would that then mean there is a left and right speaker, since you would have to make sure the tweeters are the outer most drivers in the cabinet? How would you place them? With the tweeter towards the middle of the sound stage or with the tweeter on the outside of the soundstage? Let me guess, it's listener optional. Sorry to be so dense, all this horizontal and vertical stuff CORNFUSED me! Bob

mobile.. GREAT PHOTOs........a picture is worth a thousand words..the 2 pics you posted are what I was trying to put into words...the picture on the left is what I was trying to describe as the attachment I received from the seller and failed miserably at. What he sent was a copy from a page from an old owners manual for the speaker in the left photo(Allan's)showing it from the front with the grill cover off. The speakers were shown standing upright and layed over on the long side. The config I plan to build is the photo on the right (yours)! The photo's of the tweeters I purchased from the seller show they have square magnets, not the round ones that are in both photos. The woofer magnets are also square like yours. The mid-range are said to have the Alnico magnets and look like yours. I haven't seen an HF81 for sale anywhere in a few weeks. looks like the Klipschsters have dried up the supply for a while. Thanks a bunch for your help. Bob

Jim..thanks for your offer of assistance. I'm sure I'll take advantage of it in the future. Mobile..thank you also..I am not sure if the magnets are Alnico or not..how can I tell? Are they identified as such? 1 of the posters here indicated he saw the tweeters and they do not have the Alnico magnets. What is the benefit of having them over the other type? Can I substitute them at a later date? I have finally seen the other speaker config for the CWs. The fellow I bought the speakers from sent me a note the other day with an attachement that included a picture of the CW's in the config that allows them to be placed on their side and still have the tweeter midrange config in the vertical position. Having seen it I am now sure I will build mine in the recommended config of tweeter-midrange-woofer top to bottom. I would appreciate it if you e-mailed me the the article you mentioned on cabinet strenghtening. I am planning to use 3/4 plywood with an unstained veneer already applied. From what I can tell, the original cabinets are 1/2 MDF with an applied veneer. Lastly, as I have been reading the posts on tubes and their benefits, I am puzzeled by the term NOS in describing some tubes vs others. Could someone help me understand what this really means and why the distinction...thanks Bob

Jim, Read your followup post. I appreciated your comments. I am a newbie when it comes to this stuff and the last thing I want to do is alienate myself from the knowledgable people that take the time to help the rest of us. Although I have been "lurking" around this forum for a couple years, this is my first foray into actually participating. I have used the valuable comments from people like yourself to assemble my HT rig. It is all Klipsch Reference and I am extremely pleased with it's performance. It has started my 3 sons down a similar path. I have now gotten the bug to put together a 2 channel system. I started this journey many years ago, but 3 kids and college changed my focus for many years. Now I have the time and can again focus on that target. Don't know if I want to go all the way back to vinyl, but tubes and the CW's are on the horizon. So I will be seeking all the input I can from folks like yourself. Thanks again Bob

Jim C...guilty as charged re probably paying too much. I have been cruising e-bay and other places for over a year looking for a local (TX, OK, KS, AR) sale..none to be found. Most of them are in the metro areas on the left and right coast. The last few examples have been going for over $1K plus shipping. 1 set went for over $1800 not too long ago. I paid under $1K, including shipping,for the entire package w/o the cabs. The way I have to look at it is I bought vintage drivers and superior x-overs, ALK's notwithstanding, and let it go at that. Once they are in the cabs, they will never be out of my possesion, and I can say I built 'em! Andy..thanks for the moral support. Chris..the x-overs are "B" according to the seller. I have never seen the vertical config you are talking about. I have to assume you mean the drivers are mounted on the short side rather than the long side and stacked 3 high correct? So that would also make everything mount lower in the cabinet..Got any pics? I suppose I could build both baffle boards and mount them either way and see which sound I preferred. I was planning to use 3/4 plywood with a finish veneer..oak, birch or something like that already applied. That's why I was looking for plans so I could measure the INSIDE dimensions to make sure the volume of the box was correct. I understand the MDF used at the factory is 1/2 so if I use the outside dimensions that would effect the volume of the cabinet. Wish me luck Bob

Fini, I agree. What I am concerned about is the driver location, the bass port size at the bottom and the volume within the box. What little I understand about speaker design leads me to believe that these items will effect how the speaker sounds. I want to emulate the CW sound as close to the original as possible. Bob

Malcom I e-mailed the seller to get some additional info about the mids & woofers, he told me about the tweeters, but he hadn't put them in the auction yet. He didn't tell me about the x-overs, I just happend to find them on my own on a hunch they would be in auction too. I told him I would take them at his Bid Now price. As it turned out, I won the auctions for the rest of the components. Like I said, I probably paid too much, but I had nothing to use as a value gauge except what complete CW's had been going for and figured the components would be the most expensive pieces, if I could find the specs on the cabinets. I recall the Klipsch site used to have components and prices on the old site, but not now. I had hoped one of the posters I've seen here that appear to have plans and built K Horns, would also have done so with CWs or at least may have the plans but so far no responses. It looks like I will make a new friend in Fayetteville AR. He was gracious enough to offer me a look at his. I hope he won't mind me removing the back from his so I can get the measurements for the bass port and the inside volume of the cabinet. Kind of a long answer for your simple question. Bob