inMotionGraphics
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This is very interesting... I wonder where you put the mids and highs in a system like this though... do you put floorstanders in front of the wall, or did I miss something along the way? I also wonder what a system like this will end up costing... 🙂
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Lots to unpack here, so I'll just address a few of your questions that I have personal experience with. 5.2.4 is a good speaker layout choice, so your research has served you very well. @Youthman is a legend, and I too love his videos. Congrats on your RP front stage purchases. You've done very well here and you will definitely love them... 🙂 Regarding the surround speakers, surround speakers actually do go on the side walls, either directly adjacent to the MLP, or slightly behind the MLP (ca. 10 degrees), but on the side wall. This is also where you would traditionally put the surround speakers in a 5.2.4 set up. Rear surrounds only come into play when you step up to a 7 bed channel system such as 7.1 or 7.1.4 for example. And these rear surrounds go on the back wall. So with that in mind, in your setup, i would try and mount the surround speakers on the side wall in line with the MLP. Dolby Atmos spec recommends direct radiating, the best of which for your set up would be the RP-600M, however many of us still use wide dispersion speakers for the surrounds and they work great. But since your surrounds will likely be quite close to the rear wall, I think direct radiating would be better. If you can afford the RP-600M's, I would go with those, but you can just as easily go with a lower RP model and save some money if you prefer. Consider a wall mount bracket that can add a bit of space between the rear port and the wall to deal with the port issue. I highly recommend you familiarize yourself with Dolby's speaker layout recommendations here: https://www.dolby.com/about/support/guide/speaker-setup-guides/5.1.4-overhead-speaker-setup-guide/ Just remember though, these are just recommendations, and you can (and most likely will need to) adjust to your specific room situation and environment. You can't go wrong with SVS subs, and I think it is wise to go with them over the Klipsch subs if you can afford them. Since I use Klipsch subs, I can't offer you more advice on SVS subs other than to go with the biggest two that you can afford and fit in your room... 🙂 I hope this helps somewhat...
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Crossover and general setup questions for 5.1
inMotionGraphics replied to F.M. Albana's topic in Home Theater
I agree with this, and would add that you need to be careful setting your crossover too high because at some point the bass starts becoming directional and you may be able to tell where it is coming from. 80Hz is a very good starting point in my opinion and is also the chosen frequency for the THX standard. For what it's worth, I have all my speakers set to 80Hz except my center, because my center (same one as yours) doesn't dig as low as my other speakers, so I think I set it at 90Hz. A good rule of thumb is to set your crossover at least 10Hz above the lower frequency range, but if you can tell the difference in performance between the different crossover settings, then go with the one that you like best. Regarding your first question, you need to set your speakers to small to be able to set the crossover frequencies. If a speaker is set to large, then it will receive the full frequency bandwidth (full range) and won't need a crossover frequency set. So what you're seeing in your receiver settings is correct and to be expected. Also, auto correct often mistakenly sets some speakers to large, especially if they are close to a boundary like a wall, which could be "boundary loading" them. Whatever the cause, there's absolutely no harm in changing them all to small (and you should do this) and then setting the crossover frequencies. All other settings from auto correct will still be valid. -
Happy to be of assistance... Both the CDT-5800-C II or PRO-180RPC will work well as in-ceiling speakers, although I'd still rather put the surrounds on the side walls (inline with and slightly above the listening position, or slightly behind the listening position), or on the rear wall if there are no side walls. If there is no chance for either of these options or placing them on stands for whatever reason, then I suppose having the surrounds in your ceiling will be better than nothing. For what it's worth, Atmos was definitely a worthwhile upgrade in my lounge/theatre and totally worth the investment and effort... so if you can pull off a 5.1.4 or 5.1.2 Atmos setup, I don't think you'll regret it... 🙂
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Hi @docnenos, I'm not sure I understand your proposed setup exactly. If you buy the components in your list, you will essentially be setting up a 3.1.4 system, which wouldn't make much sense at all in my opinion. These in-ceiling speakers will work great for overhead dolby atmos speakers. But I'm concerned that you haven't planned for surround speakers. I wouldn't use the in-ceiling speakers for surround channels. You can use virtually any receiver that has enough channels for the setup you want to build from any of the big brands: Yamaha, Marantz, Denon etc. The exact receiver will depend on your budget and number of channels. For a 5.1.4 or 7.1.2 setup, you can get away with a 9.2 channel AVR (I like the Yamaha RX-A2080 or RX-A3080, but Denon often has more features at a given price point if that's what you're more interested in), but if you want to do a 7.1.4 setup, then you need to be looking at one of the 11.2 channel AVR's from Denon or Marantz. Don't worry too much about power... I'm confident any of these receivers can easily power all your Klipsch speakers. Now, if it were me buying this gear, I would purchase the following instead: 2 x RP-8000F Floorstanding Speakers (no built in Dolby Atmos modules - I don't like the Dolby Atmos modules that rely on bouncing sound off your ceiling. I hear they do work to an extent in some cases, but in-ceiling speakers will always be way better for Dolby Atmos overheads) 1 X RP-600C Center Channel (or the best center you can afford... RP-504C would be my first choice for what it's worth) 2 x RP-502S or RP-600M for Surround speakers 4 X CDT-5800-C II or PRO-180RPC In-Ceiling Speakers for Dolby Atmos 1 X SPL-120 Subwoofer (but I would try and stretch it to the 15 inch SPL-150 if you can squeeze that out of your budget... then at a later stage you can add a second one if you want more even bass distribution) This will give you a 5.1.4 Dolby Atmos setup. If any of these models push you too far over your budget, then just pick the lower models in these ranges, but hopefully this will help give you an idea of what type of speakers you should be looking for.
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Yes, your receiver will support it (you have two subwoofer outs, but you can add as many as you like down the line), and yes, this is a highly recommended move. Between adding the best center speaker you can afford and adding a second subwoofer to your system, these are the two most rewarding (and bang for your buck) upgrades you can make in my opinion. The second sub will help distribute the bass more evening in your room and give a wider range of seats a more enjoyable experience. Just a few notes on the second subwoofer... I recommend that you set it so that both subs have the same input signal from your receiver. There is a setting for this in the speaker setup menu. Some will argue that this technically then isn't a 5.2.2 but rather a 5.1.2 setup no matter how many subs you have on that LFE channel, but that's just semantics so you can ignore them and call it whatever you want... for me, I find it easier to refer to the middle number as the number of subs I have, even though they're all receiving the exact same signal.... 🙂 If my last paragraph has confused me, then just ignore it and get the second sub... you can't go wrong with an additional sub... 🙂
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Ah, I'm very glad to hear that, and happy I was able to help. I think you've made an excellent choice and you will be thrilled with your sound once you have it all set up. Enjoy! Brendon
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The Extra SP2 connections are for an additional zone or surround back speakers. So while you might have 9 or more connections on the back of your receiver, your receiver definitely only has 7 channels of decoding and amplification. So you can switch between these 9 channels in the menu, but you will only ever be able to power up to 7 discrete channels at a time. Which leaves you with the option of doing a 7.1 setup (no Dolby Atmos height channels) or a 5.1.2 setup (with 2 Dolby Atmos height channels). So to sum things up for you, you have two scenarios to decide between in my opinion: 5.1.2 Setup If you're happy to only have two Dolby Atmos height channels, which is perfectly fine, then you will keep your RX-V6A, which is an excellent 7 channel AVR, and return the RP-140SA rear atmos speakers. I agree with @wvu80's suggestion to always try and get the best center you can afford, so an upgrade of the center to the: RP-504C is definitely a worthy consideration. For what it's worth, my next speaker upgrade will be to this exact center speaker. While I would love to get the RC-64 III (the best of the best), the matching mains would be the RF7iii's which are at a whole different price level, and likely beyond my reach... 🙂 5.1.4 Setup Alternatively, if you decide you want to go with the full dolby atmos setup (4 atmos height channels) from the get go, then you can keep the RP-140SA for the rear atmos speakers and you will need to exchange your receiver for a 9 channel receiver. Looking at Yamaha's website, it looks like you will need to step up to the RX-A2080 receiver in their Aventage line to get the 9 channels you need. For what it's worth, this is an excellent receiver (I've got the previous year's model RX-A2070), but this might push you beyond your budget. With Denon I think you can usually get more channels at a lower price point, but you really can't go wrong with Yamaha, Denon or Marantz. I would suggest contacting your dealer (or searching online) and comparing the prices of all the 9.2 channel receivers that fit your budget. You are welcome to post your findings here, and those who own the various brands can advise you further. Summary Which option you go with will depend entirely on how easy or difficult it is for you to exchange and/or return the gear you have already bought, and most importantly how much you are willing to spend over and above what you've already spent. In an ideal world where there are no issues exchanging and you can afford to invest a bit more money, I would return the receiver and get a 9.2 channel receiver and upgrade the center to the RP-504C, but again, neither of these upgrades are necessary, so don't feel pressured to do this if you don't have the budget. You will get plenty of enjoyment from the gear you've already bought. I hope this helps.
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He's actually got 4 atmos speakers in that list in his original post. Those RP280FA mains that he photographed have atmos modules on top and require separate connections. These would be front atmos. Then he's got these: RP-140SA which would be for rear atmos.
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Oh dear, I think @wvu80 is right... relooking at your list of speakers, it looks like you have speakers for a 5.1.4 setup, but your receiver can only handle up to 5.1.2 speakers... 😞 Did you buy the speakers and receiver from a dealer? If so, they didn't advise you well, and I would ask them to replace the receiver with a 9.1 channel receiver, or refund you for the KLIPSCH RP-140SA REFR PREM.ATMOS,BK speakers.
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Happy to try and help you where I can. So looking at your first image, the top connections that have the Dolby Atmos height sticker next to them is where you will connect your Dolby Atmos height channels from your receiver. I think on the Yamaha, that will be the outputs labelled F. Presence which stands for Front Presence. You can double check in the owners manual, but I'm almost 100% sure that's what yamaha call the atmos heights. Then the bottom connections that have the Main sticker next to them are for your mains (front left and right). The reason why there are 4 connections there is just in case you want to Bi-Amp your mains, which simply means powering your tweeters and woofers from separate outputs on your amp. You don't need to worry about or do this, and since the connections have been bridged together, you will only need to connect to one set of binding posts. I usually connect to the bottom two (positive and negative). And these you connect from your outputs labeled "Front" on your receiver. On the receiver you see that a set of channels is marked left and right and each side has a positive and negative terminal. So just make sure that you connect positive to positive and negative to negative. Regarding the subwoofer, your receiver has two sub outputs labeled Subwoofer 1 and 2 (the black colour coded RCA outputs). You will connect subwoofer output 1 to the white RCA in on the back of the subwoofer that is labeled Line in - LFE. I can confirm that your subwoofer does indeed have a built in plate amp, so the connection procedure I explained above will work just fine. Does this adequately answer your questions and concerns?
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The RP-600M's will make excellent rear surround speakers, and I'm hoping to upgrade my rear surrounds to these in the future... 🙂 I am not aware of any better Klipsch speakers for the rear surrounds in the RP line, but perhaps a fellow forum member will be able to advise if there is an alternative.
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Your receiver should be perfectly capable of powering this system, and won't damage the speakers as long as you don't crank them into distortion... but they should definitely get plenty loud as Klipsch speakers are relatively efficient. As for performance, sure you'll probably get better performance from a more powerful receiver, but I think it would be marginal at best. You'd probably have to go separates to get a significant gain, but then you're talking big bucks and I don't think it is worth it at this stage. If you've already got the receiver, try it... I think you'll be very happy.
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I understood that, but I think you misunderstood me... I was just wondering whether the RP-260f would be an upgrade to the R-28's as front mains. While they have smaller woofers, they do have a better tweeter and woofer construction, but I wouldn't know how they compare side by side in the real world. Interesting... Understood... but hopefully you did test them as front mains compared to the R-28's... I'm definitely not suggesting this... after all, my front mains are R-28F's as this is all I could afford at the time, and I love them. But I do hope to upgrade to the RP-8000 or RF7iii's one day if I can afford it... 🙂 At the end of the day, there is a very big difference in the construction of the R-28 vs the RP series. Firstly the woofers in the R line are Injection Molded Graphite (IMG) while the RP series have Cerametallic woofers. The tweeters in the R series are Aluminum while the RP's are Titanium (titanium is lighter and stiffer, so they should sound different). And I assume the cabinet is better braced and finished on the RP line. But whether all this translates into a speaker you like more, is entirely up to you and something only you can determine for yourself. I think you're taking your best buy analogy and claims a bit far... I do think the RP series is a significant upgrade to the R-28F's, and we don't have a Best Buy in South Africa, so it has nothing to do with where you got the speakers and only comes down to what you like and what you can afford. Understood, and very interesting... I thought they might sound better even though they have smaller woofers and cabinets, but that was all hypothetical. Update: For what it's worth, I bought my R-28F's from a local high end audiophile dealership, so it really does just come down to budget and personal preference... so ignore what everyone is saying about your speakers online. As long as you are happy with them, that's all that matters.
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I think you'll be perfectly happy with the R-5800W's on the rear wall as you have shown in green. And unless you're planning on putting the right hand side surround on a stand to the side or slightly behind the listening area, I wouldn't even bother with the side surrounds. No point in confusing the sound field by putting the surrounds too far in front of you, even if they are pointing back at your listening area. Once you have the dolby atmos overheads in, I think the 5.1.4 setup will sound great. And while you can still experiment with adding the side surrounds at the red position, my gut feeling is that you'll get more value out of adding a second sub than adding the side surrounds... just something to think about... 🙂
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Like @tromprof, I have the Q80R (2019), and I love it! Practically OLED like blacks as far as I can tell... They did lower the spec a bit on the 2020 (T models), or rather, they pushed the higher specs up to their 8K range. The major difference I think is that the Q70T has edge lighting, where we have full array backlighting, but I believe the TV still looks awesome. As long as you like the picture it produces, you can't go wrong with the Samsung's in my opinion. Here's a review of the Q70T that Andrew Robinson published a few days ago in case that helps:
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Just for clarity, are you referring to the RP-260f speakers? And if you are, are you saying you still preferred keeping the R-28F's as your fronts instead of upgrading them to the RP-260f speakers?
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Well I have the R-28F's and I think they're great... maybe it's just because I haven't had the luxury of trying the RP or RF's in my room... ignorance is bliss I guess... 🙂 I am saving up to upgrade my center R-25C though, but these RP's and the RC-64 are crazy expensive where I live... 😞 I did go with the PRO-180RPC for my in-ceiling height speakers when I upgraded to Dolby Atmos, in anticipation of an eventual all-round upgrade to the RP or RF line, but it will be a long time before I get there by the looks of things... Regarding your question about using the RP-260f as rear surrounds, I don't know that I would do that to be honest. If you already bought them, and you don't want to replace the R-28F's with them as mains, then you can try them as actual surrounds (to the side and slightly behind you), but as rear surrounds, I fear they will be largely wasted (unless you mean you are using them as surrounds, but just placed them behind you). There's usually more content in the surrounds and than in the rear surrounds as far as I can tell. And if you haven't bought them yet, then rather pass on them and invest in the best bookshelves or surround speakers you can afford, and save the rest for other things.
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There are many reasons why any auto room correction system can get things a bit wrong, one of which is boundary gain, which can often lead the system to think a small speaker is bigger and can dig lower than it actually is and can. If I were you, I'd start out at around 80Hz and then adjust as you see fit from there. 40 sounds a bit low for the 500m's, but if it sounds good, then that's great. For what it's worth, I usually end up with my crossover settings at around 10Hz higher than my speakers' low end rating, so that could be a safe bet if you are battling to hear the differences. Update: I just realized that my last statement above is not quite correct. I set the crossover to 10Hz above the lower end rating if the low end rating is above 80Hz, but otherwise I set it to 80Hz. In other words, I don't have any of my crossover points set below 80Hz... for better or worse... 🙂
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Surround speaker advice (floor plan attached)
inMotionGraphics replied to Salz's topic in Home Theater
Generally we try and get the horn/tweeter as close as possible to the same horizonal plane as the mains' horns, however there's no point matching their height if the center is going to be blocked by the front row of seats, so I'd say yeah, this is good option to try. I'd recommend trying both below and above before permanently mounting it to make sure you're getting the best compromise. I don't have personal experience with these, but I honestly think you can't go wrong with them. And yes, I'd go a couple of feet above ear level. I think where you've shown them on your diagram is perfect... so yes, between front and back row and a few feet above ear level. These should be more than big enough and they shoot above the level of the R-820's. These most likely have the titanium tweeters while the 820's have the aluminum tweeter... but I'd rather go with these so that if you even upgrade your mains to the RP series, you won't have to replace these as well. I went with the PRO-180RPC IN-CEILING Speakers, which is the top of the range in-ceiling. They work great with my reference range of bed level speakers, and will be a perfect match all the way up to the RP and RF (Flagship) series. I hope this helps. Brendon -
What am I doing wrong? (speakers sound flat)
inMotionGraphics replied to Kababayan's topic in Home Theater
Do you know what DSP mode you had the receiver set to? If it was on something other than stereo, direct or Stereo 9 (or 7) Channel, you were probably listening to a mode that collapses most of the sound to the center speaker. When a stereo signal is processed like this, it does leave your main left and right speaker sounding a little funny and feeble if you put your ear up close, while the receiver tries to direct the voices and inevitably most of the content to the center channel. My recommendation is try setting your receiver to direct (or Straight) or Stereo 2 Channel. Then you should hear all the sound coming from your RP-8000's, and I'm sure they'll sound much better, even in your garage... 🙂 -
It's certainly a worthy upgrade in my opinion. I should also point out for those that aren't aware, that you don't need to have the overhead height speakers to enjoy the benefits of the DSU or Dolby Atmos. If you have a Dolby Atmos capable receiver (or upgrade to one), you would still be enjoying many of the benefits that Dolby Atmos and the much improved DSU bring to the table on your 9.2 or even a 5.1 or 7.1 channel system.
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Moving to Dolby Atmos in a 7.2.2 configuration with in-ceiling speakers for the heights was totally worth it! I mostly buy Blue-Ray disks for the good action type movies, and stream the movies that are not action or "Big Sound" focused. Any movies that don't have a Dolby Atmos sound track, I run through the Dolby Surround Upmixer (DSU) and get impressive results that way. I also watch TV shows, YouTube and listen to music through the Dolby upmixer. For music I turn center spread on though...
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Rear on-wall or in-wall recommendation for R-820F system
inMotionGraphics replied to Salz's topic in Home Theater
Not to add confusion or uncertainty to your plan, but if you can't put the rear surrounds on the rear wall as per Dolby recommendations (or as close to as possible), then I would rather go with a 5.1.4 setup. Dolby Atmos speakers are meant to be in the ceiling, but not bed channel rear surrounds. I feel like you'll get a more realistic representation of the sound field if you stick to the Dolby Atmos recommendations as best as possible. I think you're misunderstanding those specs. Those are minimum ratings, or put otherwise, the receivers are capable of handling 4 ohm loads, but they'll definitely do 8 ohm loads, so you really don't have to worry about this spec at all with the speakers you are choosing. 4 ohm loads are harder on the amps than 8 ohms, and some amps/receivers might battle with 4 ohm loads, but neither receiver will have a problem driving your speakers... Either of these receivers will work just fine I'm sure (although I haven't got hands on experience with either of them). The 3700 has more features, none of which are critical in my opinion, and slightly less power. If you plan on buying an 8K TV in the future or you need HDR10+, then go with the newer 3700 model, otherwise the 4500 with slightly more power and possibly a slightly better build quality will do just fine. Well, both these receivers provide video upscaling, so you could upscale blue-ray disks or other 1080p and lower resolution sources to 4K via the receivers. Not all TV's have upscaling built in as far as I know, but I could be wrong. I do it mostly out of convenience I suppose... easier to run one HDMI cable from each of my sources to the receiver and then one HDMI cable from the receiver to the TV for the video signal from all sources, instead of running video and audio separately from each of your sources. Wouldn't you also run out of inputs on your TV if you have a number of different sources? -
Rear on-wall or in-wall recommendation for R-820F system
inMotionGraphics replied to Salz's topic in Home Theater
I went with your option C for a 7.2.2 layout because I already had the 7 bed channel speakers installed when I upgraded to Dolby Atmos. However, I have heard people recommend going with your option B for a 5.1.4 because the rear surrounds aren't very active. I can't say which is better because I haven't heard the 5.1.4 setup as a comparison, but I am very happy with my 7.2.2 setup for what it's worth. Definitely don't go with option A though. You do not need or want 4 side surrounds. I agree with @wuzzzer not to focus on wattage. The only real critical issue is how many channels of processing you need and how many channels of amplification. If you are aiming for an eventual 7.1.4, then that's going to require a much more expensive receiver with either 11 channels of processing and amplification, or 11 channels of processing and an external amp for the additional two channels. If you know you're not going to need that ever, then just choose between the 5.1.4 and 7.1.2 layouts and get a 9 channel receiver... and if you can't decide, then do whichever is more convenient or cheaper in your particular room... 🙂
