Mike82

Having attended several CES and SP shows while I was reviewing for SoundStage!, I can attest that many system set-ups change during the course of the show. My impressions had to do not only with what I heard, but also what I've heard in the past. What kills me is the haphazard way some exhibitors set up their systems resulting in poor sound. Paul is right. There were few items I heard that would make me consider replacing anything in my system. The Edgarhorn room did not have the blankets on the back wall on Friday which is when I listened to them. Also, Bruce could have used a better source component than he did. The open baffle speaker in the Chicago Horn Society was a Tannoy HPD paper cone driver with a supertweeter on top(unk brand)--- it did sound very good though. I visited several times, but didn't get a chance to hear the open baffle with anything but acapella vocal. The amps (except the sub amps) were mostly Korneff designs. PHY from France also makes a nice full range driver that works well with an open baffle design. They also offer them with ferrite or alnico magnets priced ~$2k (pr) for the ferrite and $2.4K (pr) for the alnico. The CAR room used the Atmasphere amp on Friday and the deHavilland on Saturday. The deHaviland was more harsh sounding than the Atmasphere which accounts for Paul and Craig's impressions. Ron Welbourne was really bummed with the room's acoustics. He, like all exhibitors, should bring TACT digital room correction devices to compensate for these potential anomalies. JMON: I almost snagged a pair of the $100 nOrh jobs myself. Pop in a pair of Fostex drivers and you'd have a decent sounding little speaker.

i've dealt with Venus HiFi before. First rate dealer. He also imports the Daruma III roller bearings which everyone needs to use under their CD player/t-port. Brian had a chance to "introduce" them to some other exhibitors. Needless to say, they were used for the remainder of the show. HDBR. I beleive the CAR Hartsfield were the latter design. Regardless, they sounded great. I stand corrected on Martinelli's horns. Very fine WOODWORKING.

I just returned from the MWAF in Lima and would like to share my impressions. Since I don't own a digital camera, no photos yet. I got to meet Craig, Paul, and Indy during the show. I would have liked to have seen more Klipschsters there. Being in Lima, accomodations were reasonable, unlike Chicago and NYC. The Wingate Inn and civic center were about as good as I've seen at other shows. Room acoustics varied quite a lot making for a difficult time for some of the exhibitors. As usual, many of the rooms were playing music too loud resulting the usual listener fatigue. My favorite rooms: 1. Classic Audio Reproductions- they had their Hartsfield with the primo-TAD drivers (~$14k-$17K depending on drivers, JBL vs TAD, and veneer). Source was Accuphase digital and vinyl. Amps were the Atmasphere and deHavilland. The sound- WOW! Expansive and authoritative. I can't help but think the built-in corner design of the Hartsfield have a lot to do with their low-end authority. I think a lot of Khorn bass energy can be lost in the corner placement especially is the seal isn't perfect never mind the losses from flimsy drywall. I'm seriously considering making false corners, even though I have OK corners in my room. 2. Edgarhorn- 2 rooms- one for the Slimline and the other for the Titan system. The Slimlines sounded very musical with Cy Brenneman p-p tube amplification. They do need a sub though, however the unit being used integrated pretty well. While I liked the Titan system, it is big. The subs are a large as 21' cubic foot refrigerators and the Titan almost as massive, but still having the same footprint. The sound was excellent, 99.99% of the population won't have the room for these. Brenneman amps were used, and a Rega CD player (barf). Best budget gear- 1. Venus Hi-Fi from Bloomington, IN had the Audio Note (digital, amps, speakers), the diminutive Jolida 301 amp and Can and Cain Abby. The $495 AN AX2 stand mount speaker with the $350 hybrid Jolida 301 made for an excellent musical presentation given the price. This was the first chance I had to hear the $1500 C&C Abby. I was impressed. The cabinetry was first rate and the sound better than I expected. I didnt find the sound to be thin as some full-range driver speakers can be and they can play pretty loud without becoming confused. 2. Larry Moore Design has his amps and an interesting horn kit. The Horn Kit retails for $500 and includes 2 Fostex drivers, horns made from car bumper material (the stuff does not resonate) and mounting kit. Along with a Dahlquist sub, the sound was decent, but definitely a small sweet spot. The always congenial Ron Welborne was there with the Oris horn with AER-BD3 drivers. This time he used the Onken bass cabinet. Amps were his new battery powered pre-amp and the new DRD 300B monoblocks driving the Oris. Im very familiar with Rons speakers- his Maya horn system is still probably the best speaker Ive heard. This room had horrible acoustics resulting in sever bass boominess making it difficult to judge the sound. Tuning out the bass boom, the new DRD amps sounded pretty darn good. Dead quiet. I can see a kit coming this way soon. Supravox drivers are now in the US. One interesting speaker was the full range field coil driver 215-2000 (~$2500 for pair of drivers) in a Cain and Cain cabinet. The driver had a separate power supply to power the coil assembly. Using Larry Moores SET amps, the sound was very good. Bill Martinelli had a room. He displayed several of his horns. First rate carpentry. I didnt spend a lot of time in the Pi speaker room. They were playing some crappy German techno disco $#!t. The sound didnt impress me either. I got a chance to see their corner horn. Pi is being more than a bit disingenuous in calling that speaker a corner horn. Its simply a dynamic speaker facing a corner. GMAFB! Madisound had all the Fostex drivers on display along with several rear-loaded horn speakers. Very good sound from the Fostex drivers albeit the bass was limited given the size constraints of the cabinets. DIYers looking for an affordable altermative to Lowther and AER drivers should consider the Fostex. Odyssey was there with solid-state electonics and dynamics. This was typical hi-fi sound, you hear anywhere. They repeatedly player SRV Tin Pan Alley which sounds good an almost any system. I was disappointed with the Omega room. I made several trips back to make sure my impressions were correct. Despite using Consonance tube amplification, I found the sound anemic with all the different speakers they were demoing. nOrh had a system set up. Theyre kinda cute and dont take up a lot of space. The souns was pretty good. Audio Note had a room set up with their $12K 300B monoblocks, $10K preamp, and $20K speakers (silver everything). The sound was pretty good, but $20K for the speakers? Gimme the CAR Hartsfield instead and with the remaining $3K, Ill buy a lot of music. However, the more reasonably priced AN speakers were VERY good. I got to attend a couple seminars. A JBL history seminar was quite informative. JBL remain in business and may be getting ready to re-enter the hi-end. I especially enjoyed John Hasquins mid-range horn design seminar. He builds his own, but he also explained how one can best mate horns and drivers given minimal specs. I was bummed that I had to miss Bruce Edgars seminar as I had to leave. All in all, a fun time. Id recommend the MWAF to anyone.

Since I didn't get to CES this year, I'm going to attend this show. From the program, there's going to be a lot of horns, set, etc.

After trying several in my home, I ended up with the Custom Power Cord Power Block (~$450 retail). It absolutely smoked the way over-hyped PS Audio Power Plant for less than half the money. The CPCC uses a multiple-shielding technique rather than filtering. I noted a dramatic reduction in lowering the noise floor without compressing dynamics as I experienced with devices using surge poretectors. FWIW, the CPCC stuff has received several TAS Golden Ear Awards, for those needing reviewer imprimatur.

I rope caulked the woofer baskets in my Khorns. Similar to what you noted, the bass improved both in detail and timbral resolution. IMO, a no-brainer tweak for about $5.00.

I've not heard it, but given how good the Welborne Maya sounds, I've thought about doing this. It's not a cheap mod though. If I ever do it, I think I'd opt for the Oris 200 as the Khorns bass goes up to 400+ Hz. The AER drivers are quite expensive, but IME, much better than the Lowther units. Ron W has been demoing his Mayas with AER drivers lately. Currently, I've modified my Khorns using an Altec 806A driver and 511B horn with the stock tweeter and found it a significant improvement over the K55M/400 horn, but the Oris/AER combo is still lurking in the back of my mind.

Ray's almost right. These were a pair of Shahinian Diapason captured from the "Borg".

I took it!

m00n: I'm glad to hear things worked out. Hang in there on the bass extension thing. You'll find that once the woofer's surround loosens up a bit, the bass extension will improve. I also agree with jt1, too. The Belles are VERY transparent and as you upgrade your source and amplifier components, you'll easily notice the improvements. The Belles are long term keepers. Good luck! Mike

m00n: Rope caulking is a type of putty that is available at Home Depot under the name Frost King. It's in the Home Insulation section. It comes in rolls about 1 1/2" wide with 8 strings of caulk arranged next to each other. Another brand is called Mortite. A pack costs $5.00-$6.00. You need about 6 packs do do a pair of Belles. The stuff dampens horn ringing (resonance) and smooths out (for lack of a better explanation) the mids and treble. It will adhere to the horns and is removable (don't worry, when you hear the sonic improvement, you won't remove it). I first used Mortite around 1977 on my Denon DP3000 t-table. It deadened platter resonance and improved the treble extension. I put it on both the squawker and tweeter horns. I did it incrementally and found a bigger difference when I used it on the tweeter. A lot of the Forum members use it.

m00n: Don't feel bad. This has been my main hobby for about 35 years and I'm still learning! The biggest mistake I ever made was about 12 years ago. I sold my Audible Illusions 2D and Quicksilver monos for a Krell KSL pre and KSA 100A amp. That crap lasted about 4 months and I sold it and went back to tubes. Been there since. While there are shortcuts up the learning curve, it still takes time. Don't bother with the audio rags either. There's a lot of experience and good advice right here on the Forum.

I've had plenty of tube amps (SE, SET, p-p) and while I like SE most, I found I much prefer the EL34 over the 6550 genre (unless the 6550 is wired triode- Margules, Rogue- which is nicer sounding than UL). With the proper speaker, the EL34 bass is fine. Like DeanG, I wouldn't sacrifice the midrange excellence for alleged better bass of the 6550. IME, the EI KT90 is the best sounding 6550 genre tube (disregarding NOS stuff) While the E-H power tubes are pretty good, consider getting some NOS Mullards for the pre-amp. If you want a more "chocolately" sound, try the Mullard CV4004, which I use.

Edster00 has had both the Belles and Cornwalls, so he should be able to give you a nice contrast/comparison. I had the Belles before getting the Khorns and agree with DeanG. Corner placement improves the bass, but an ALK will allow adjustment of the tonal balance. Even with the relative lack of bass extension of the Belles, I much prefer their speed and timbral integrity over bass reflex designs. As Tom notes, you will have a tough time getting a sub to integrate well with the Belles (unless is a horn loaded sub, of course).

Tom: I basically agree, especially with your comments on pricing. Their T1 is priced something in the upper teens or lower 20s. Granted, the driver complement retail price is pretty expensive, but even with overblown cabinet construction, I can't see how they get their prices. I'll be interested to see how they sound compared to my modded Khorns (Altec 806A/511B replacing the squawker) I picked up at around 1/8th the price of the T1.

I listen to classical about 60% of the time. Jazz- 30% (IMO, jazz and classical music aren't all that diffeent), Blues/Classic Rock- 9%, and the remaining 1%- everything else. The toughest thing about listening to classical is finding well engineered recordings. The same goes for classi rock and jazz, too.

I heard them at THE Show in Vegas last year. The T3 was being demo'd at the time. Don't remember the rest of the system. Sounded pretty good, but I wasn't floored or anything. That doesn't mean anything since it was the first day of the show, there were a loy of people in the room, and the rooms were pretty square making for really lousy acoustics. I hope to get a better audition in Lima. The Moondog Maya horn system was the best sound I heard at both THE Show and CES at the Alexis Park. It's about the only speaker system I've heard that would KO my Khorns, but at ~$14K, yikes!!!

I've not had the oppotunity to experiment with these. My biggest concern with cyro-treating tubes is that the coefficients of expansion/contraction between glass (tube) and metal (pins) vary. There is a potential for microfractures to form between the glass and pins. Therefore, the tube, being a vacuum device, can potentially draw air into the tube causing oxidation of the elements and significantly shorted tube life. BUT, I do use the cryo-treated outlets from Mike Brinkman. At $35.00, these are a no-brainer improvement, albeit small, to my system. Yeah, I can see your faces, but I remember the same look on Edster's face when I brought over the Daruma roller devices to put under his CD player... He can tell you about it.

I doubt Klipsch will get into car audio considering their "trademark" is horn drivers. Practically, there isn't the room in autos for installation of horns.

I don't know of any dedicated "Audio" programs here. I guess electical engineering would provide the basis education on which to branch into audio specific work. GA Tech, in Atlanta, has an excellent EE program and one course a lot of guys take is on loudspeaker design. While attending CEDIA a few years ago, I attended a session given by some Brits. Afterward, we talked for a bit. These younger guys were saying that in England they have a few schools offering majors specific to audio, including tube technology, analog, etc., as well as digital stuff. They must take their music more seriously than we do.

Congrats m00n. Before I got my Khorns, I had Belles. I experimented with placement and ended up placing them in the corners along the long wall of my room (14' x 21') and directed them straight to my listening position. Amazing center fill even 20' apart! The corner placement also helped reinforce the bass. Even though the bass didn't go as deep as other speakers I've owned, the speed and tunefulness more than made up for any comparitive lack of deep bass. I agree with Craig about rewiring. no matter how good the dielectric is, there will be oxidation/corrosion after all these years. My Khorns were '85s and sounded much better after rewiring (I use copper). Rope caulking both the mid and tweeter horns also tames the mids and highs. This is a cheap, very effective tweak. As far as amps go, any low powered tube unit will do. I used a 45 which had enough power. There's enough info about the other SET and others. Happy listening!

Geeesh! Anyway, this plant is probably a WMD chemical plant. Regular chemical plants (or baby-food plants as the Iraqis will claim) should not need to have electric fences and camoflague. I wish I were able to see today's press briefing to see if that piss-ant French reporter will ask the same WMD question as he did on Saturday. I'm also amused at the sheer stupidity of some of the talking heads covering this event- both on TV and the press briefings. I enjoyed Gen Franks shmacking the Newsweek bimbo for her stupid comment during Sat's briefing. Thankfully, she didn't ask any questions on Sunday. Most of the talking heads have little to no knowledge of things military (even though they'd like us to think they have) which is why they have consultants, yet the stupid ones (CNN bleached blond chick, Paula Kahn comes to mind first) continue to run their mouths. My biggest copncern is that the cowardly Iraqis will use their own people as human shields when we get to Badhdad.

I'd have to say Audio and Music is about it. It has been continuously for 35 years. I used to like motorcycling, but in Atlanta, you take your life in your hands. Scuba diving when I was in Jupiter, FL. I can't wait to get back to FL. Fly fishing when I was up north. I need to take time to find some spots down here.

Type in Cornwall Plans in the "Search". There are a lot of posts. To find the plans, start at about page 12 and scroll. You should the plans somewhere.

I've had quite a bit of tube gear through the years. Mullards all around would be great, but since you don;t want to spend that much $$$$, IMO I'd opt for pricey NOS 12AX/AT7 and get either the JJ or Svet EL34 for the power tubes (but the others may be fine as tube quality has improved substantially over the past few years). I find the pre-amp/driver tubes impact the sound from a "lack of harshness" standpoint more so than power tubes. Good tubes up fron also lower the noise floor substantially. IME, power tubes tend to impact the sense of drive or power more than they do harshness.