henry4841

I am considering building another SE EL84 amplifier and my thoughts are the switch to see just how it actually effects the sound. As far as Steve sending the amp with 6P15P, my thought is price. The 6P15P was not designed as an audio tube but rather as a video frequency voltage tube but can be like many other tubes built for another purpose can be used as an audio tube. They use to be cheap on Ebay but like all tubes the price has gone up.

But then in effect the g3 is floating and it's purpose is to suppress the electrons knocked off the A making it useless as if it was not there. That and with the EL84, the tube the amp is actually built for, the cap is bypassed internally as if the cap is not there. Contradictory is the word that comes to mind. Steve is the only source I have ever heard that claims the cap is an improvement in sound but actually admits he does not understand how. What I would like to know is if Steve connects the g3 to k in the amps he sells where the 6P15P is like the EL84 tube. His published schematics do not show this but then his published schematic uses SS rectification whereas the ones he sells uses a tube with pleasing distortion is what I call tube rectification which is actually why many prefer a tube amp with tube rectification.

What I call a serious audiophile.

I have been giving this mod some more thought especially on the Decware Zen using an EL84 tube vs the 6P15P tube. The biggest difference between the tubes is that in the EL84 has the suppressor grid tied to the cathode internally so in effect you will have a cap across the connection and not isolated from the cathode by a capacitor as in the 6P15P tube where the suppressor grid is not tied internally to the cathode. All the published schematics of the Zen I have seen this is not shown and Steve does not mention if he ties the two, G3 and K pins together as sent to customer. It makes sense to me since the amp is supposedly built to accommodate both the EL-84 tube and the 6P15P tube to tie the two pins together. It will not matter in the EL84 since the pins are already tied internally but will make a big difference, technically, using a 6P15P tube where a cap will isolate the suppressor grid "g3" from the cathode "k" if the two pins are not tied together. Thoughts, any of our electronic nerds on this forum? Perhaps maybe an owner of the Zen taking a look inside to see if Steve sends the amp out with the pins tied together.

I have said many times here having multiple amplifiers the biggest difference you will hear, with higher end well designed and built amps, is between a PP vs SE. The many better PP amps are going to sound much the same with some subtle differences possibly and the same can be said about SE but the difference is obvious when you compare the two forms of amplification. I like both types with SE being my favorite. IMHO serious audiophiles should have one of each, PP and SE for a change of sound. Keeps things interesting.

I can understand Flev saying a SET300b with LaScala is sorta dark sounding. More will say more lush sounding of which I am their camp. The word lush is used frequently describing the sound of a SET 300B. As with any piece of equipment there are many who will say a certain piece is not their cup of tea. My SET 300B is the last amp I would part with. This is not to say I do not like the sound of my many other amps but my favorite by far is my 300B. After reading the praise of the Decware Zen by members here I pulled my Zen clone out, of which I have not used in over a year, to give it a listen and I must say with our efficient speakers it sounds mighty good and never runs out of power with just a couple of watts. And it does have a sound many would prefer over my SET 300B. Many would also say clearer sounding but then the rich lush sound of the 300B is what turns me on. Hey, this is entertainment and not rocket science.

The one things horn speakers are, in general, are unforgiving of source, amplification. With excellent recordings and gear they will sound amazing. Any faults with anything in front of them, source, gear, will definitely be shown. Not so much with conventional speakers that cannot reproduce the small details of music and vocals. Many will accuse the speakers when it is the singer or equipment that is the fault. Most conventional speakers will not produce the tiny details of reproduction and many will falsely claim conventional speakers sound better when in reality they are just not able to reproduce those details. I've played around with conventional speakers and some do sound really good but you loose dynamics and details horns can reproduce. I will assume bigger horn will magnify this more than smaller one.

Interesting.

Perhaps members will respond on the retail sub they are using.

A horn sub is going to be too huge for most. Best I am sure but there are many conventional subs that will blend in well with our horn bass speakers too.

I am enjoying reading about Flevoman's audio journey and his opinions of the sound of his new toys. Reminds me on how I was at his age, wanting to try as many pieces as I can. Got hooked when in my 20's reading all the reviews in the popular audio rags wondering how they would sound at my house. It was fun and I still play with electronics but mostly amplifiers now and not speakers. For a home environment I do not see how I could improve the sound of any significance over my LaScala's. Sure there could be a touch better here and possible an improvement there with another speaker but overall, for me, one cannot beat a Heritage speaker no matter which one. Even the Heresy with a sub is going to make fantastic music for most and be the last speaker they need to buy. A lot can depend on the size of ones listening room. Big rooms benefit from big speakers, smaller rooms can get by with a smaller set of speakers and sound just fine. Just my 2ct's for what it's worth.

Experimented with a Altec 511B on top of my LaScala in the past too. Requires one to design and build a custom crossover or go active crossover. Big horn, bigger sound but now I just listen to my LaScala's stock with AA crossovers considering them plenty good enough for me. I would expect engineers at Klipsch know more than I but to me the big, as big as you can find for a 1" driver, Altec horn sound better in some ways. I have thought of trying a 2" horn and driver but giving it some thought I say why when the stock LaScala sounds so good in my average size room. Big speakers require a big room to really shine is my thought.

These days we have excellent subs to choose from to fill in where the LaScala starts dropping off. So the difference between the two is minimal at best. Both probably will benefit from a decent sub added in the mix even the K-horn. Some modern music is bass heavy.

Depends on who you ask. 🙂

My thoughts are you really need corners for K-horns as PWK designed them for. Closing the backs is not an improvement but a compromise for more sales is my thought. In a proper room with corners and a Cornwall for center channel as PWK suggest I believe the sound would be outstanding but unfortunately most do not have a proper room to bring out the best of the K-horn. But being the price difference of K-horn vs LaScala is not the great I would most likely go for the new K-horn even with closed backs if looking for my first Heritage speaker. K-horns are cool looking so why not go for them and get a good sub with them as well if a bass head. Personally owning LaScala's for decades I do not feel I am missing much if anything using my LaScala's without turning on my excellent sub. Plenty of bass at this stage in my life. When I bought my speakers LP's ruled and not much on an LP below 50hz at that time. That and the price difference was almost twice with the K-horn. Not the case anymore with the dressed up LaScala presently made. Both are excellent speakers so we are really nit picking when comparing the two but that is what we do on forums. 🙂

The Zen Decware is an SET and volume level should not shut the amp down because it is being run in class A and in class A the tubes are typically run at 80% no matter the volume. I suppose there could be problem if the secondary of the OPT's have too low an impendence but have never heard of it being problem before. No experience with the Jolida but guessing PP A/B and could be made to run too hot but seriously with our speakers you hearing would be damaged at too high a volume before the amp shut down. Most heritage speakers only use a couple of watts in a home setting. First thoughts, something not wired correctly.

One thing caught my attention comparing the UGJ to the LaScala is the size of the room they are placed in. Like you I think a big speaker is a better suited for a big room. Most will find the LaScala to be as big as practical for an average size room without sacrificing much or anything as far as sound.

Nice, good to see you with an amplifier you have been looking for.

Took time to read your quotes, I like. We all should be on the side of truth. Searching for the truth is what life is about.

I am sure the engineers have produced an excellent speaker. My PM explains my thoughts on this subject in more detail. Lucky dog being able to audition these speakers. Not so much here in the states now. This is where I wish Roy or another engineer at Klipsch would explain just how they designed the K-horn with a closed back. Would be good for forum and a good marketing tool. IMHO Klipsch could be using this forum more wisely by some participation. Just saying.

We have a lot in common and I would hate to see you leave. I enjoy hearing different view points and I do hope you change your mind about moving on.

I am almost positive there will no charge on caps after such a long time but to be sure check with meter or just short with screwdriver or resistor. If you can change the PS caps why not change the others as well. But a variac is not that expensive these days if reforming is what you want to try so why not do it yourself. Raise voltage slowly to 55v's then hold for a few minutes then slowly raise to line voltage. Personally I have am not a believer of reforming old caps when it does not cost that much to just replace them. In some of the older tube gear purist want to keep everything original. The only reason I see for reforming. https://www.amazon.com/YaeCCC-Transformer-Variable-Voltage-Regulator/dp/B076Y2XHRS/ref=asc_df_B076Y2XHRS/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=242168461154&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=6460504378208762735&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9052440&hvtargid=pla-398896965993&psc=1 Cheaper than what a good tech is going to charge.

For those that have never seen the Klein horn. Taking back loaded horns to the extreme. Just to show what a little speaker can do if horn loaded. A Nelson Pass creation from years ago.

With a LaScala the bass is as quick and clear as the horn tweeter. You can only experience this with a bass horn system. Years ago I heard, read, of a Japanese guy that built a 32ft bass horn with concrete and steel for is house. What I would call a serious audiophile. PWK just folded the horn into 3 folds with the walls of the room being the extension of the horn. With the walls needed to create the last part of the horn I fail to see how a closed back K-horn can equal what PWK originally designed. But what do I know. I am sure the closed back K-horn will appeal to many more customers that do not have the proper room for the old K-horns. A marketing decision to create more sales? Do not get me wrong, I am sure the engineers at Klipsch have made an excellent sounding new K-horn but I fail to see how it would be better than what PWK originally made with improvements in components in driver and X-over. All things being equal. Just saying.

Simple answer, yes. Know from experience not theory. With horns you get more detail and quickness no matter the amp. You and I are very much alike in the kind of amp for the type of music one listens to.