drdiaboloco

Saw (but didn't have the time to listen to) a Velodyne CHT-12 sub at Circuit City yesterday. After a little poking around I see that the CHT-12 can be had for under $400 online... And the -15 for about $500. The rub, of course, is that the SVS PCi series is about $150-200 more (depending upon model), and of course I can't listen to an SVS. I really don't want to spend over $500 for a sub, so even the least expensive powered SVS will still come in over that total, and that's without shipping. Anyhoo... Y'all figger that the SVS is really worth it as compared to the cheaper "good" subs? And please, no pontificating about how subs in this price range are all useless and horrible. Thanks.

Whaddya mean The Wiz "doesn't carry SB-2's anymore"?? They were more than happy to try to sell a pair to my friend on Dec. 22nd, only 11 days ago... Sounds to me like they simply aren't in stock at that location and the salesman is pulling your leg.

Ah, yes, The Wiz... Only at The Wiz will you get the sublime pleasure of listening to two of the sales staff loudly discussing how one met some chick and effed her all night the previous evening. Well, at least that was the discussion I was blessed to overhear only a week ago when I was doing some last-minute Christmas shopping with my dad. I am certain the other customers were equally impressed by the discussion these two troglodytes were having, as they could hardly avoid it without leaving that section of the store. Gosh, how I do LOVE The Wiz, and not just because of that... I was also very pleased to learn from yet another salesman that my Denon 3802 is essentially worthless because it is being replaced by a newer model. From the scowl of disapproval the salesman gave about my Synergy speakers, I then also realized that the thousands of dollars spent on my HT system were essentially flushed down the toilet. Shoulda gotten Bose I guess. In any case, I haven't heard the SB-1's, but I have the SB-2's and they sound fabulous. They are currently my rear surrounds, having been relegated to that duty by the SF-2's that are my main speakers. I recommend them both very highly.

I will have to respectfully disagree with McGoo's assertion that the Synergy Series does not compare to the Reference series. In absolute terms, yes, the RF-3II's do have a nicer sound than the SF-2. However, saying the SF-2 "doesn't compare" is misleading. The SF-2 has probably 95% of the capabilities of the (much) more expensive RF's. In my humble opinion, and in my humble checkbook and my humble listening space for that matter, the SF-2's have 95% of the sound for about 65% of the cost. Not a bad comparison. If you have the money, by all means, get the RF's. However you shouldn't feel like you've been shortchanged if you step down to the Synergy series... Sounds almost the same, and certainly better than anything else in the same price range.

Luckily, my purchase of a Radio Shack SPL meter came at the right time... Apparently I was the THIRD PERSON TO BUY ONE THAT DAY from my local (and very small) Radio Shack!! I got the last one, and wouldn't you know it, they charged me only $24.99 for it. I presume that was a mistake, as it lists for, ummm, 40 bucks? I don't remember. I just remember being pleasantly surprised. Oh yes, I did get the analog one.

Not the best movie I have ever seen, not by far, but the sound is excellent. My fireplace set up an interesting resonance at one point in the film... Thought I'd messed up my HT system until I traced the buzz/rattle to the metal grating!! And that's with "just" SF-2's and a powered Yamaha sub. I'm afraid to ponder how it would sound with heavier bottom-end equipment! ------------------ -Me fail English? That's unpossible!

I listened to Marantz, H/K, Onkyo, Sony, Kenwood, and others before I settled on the 3802... And quite simply, they all sounded great. With all due respect to the obviously biased boomer posting on here, they are almost indiscernable from each other IMHO. You can't go wrong with choosing any of the competing units, it all comes down to features, power, and aesthetics. Far be it from me to tell anyone that my 3802 is "better" than what they chose... I respect anyone's choices as being a fine one in this price range. You can't go wrong with quality equipment... After all, we're not talking about 200-dollar receivers here. I tip my hat to you if you are willing to buy a "real" receiver to begin with, as the uninformed think that a $250 receiver is just as good as a thousand-dollar DTS receiver, because they have "just the same amount of power". ------------------ -Me fail English? That's unpossible!

Funny, my "motivating experience" after dropping out of college was four years at a large hotel/conference center in suburban NYC, working as a valet parking attendant, capitalizing on my three summers' experience doing same at one of the most exclusive country clubs in the area. At various times got to drive everything from the clapped-out late-70's Tercels to Ferraris, Lambos, Astons, etc. I might have even taken a RUF-modified twin-turbo 911 for "a little spin"... But then again, maybe I didn't. My first "real" job (which actually preceded the hotel parking job), as in one that was meant to further an actual career plan, was working as a clerical assistant for a large NYC law firm that specialized in products liability cases... At the time it was the largest firm of its' kind in the US and probably the world. I did all the work of an actual Legal Assistant for less than half the pay, which was a comical $8/hr. I spent an alarming amount of my take-home pay simply to pay for my train pass and parking at the station, not to mention dry cleaning. It did, however, prove to me that an office job would drive me bananas. In any event, I get to live a wonderful Peter Pan existence now, driving people around in airplanes for a living. Have enough left over after the bills are paid to pay unneccessarily large amounts of money to buy HT equipment. ------------------ -Me fail English? That's unpossible!

I'll throw my hat in the ring for the 3802. I had a 2802 for about two weeks but traded up... There is no discernable sound difference between the two, sound-wise, till you get to the neighbor-angering volume levels. I didn't go to the 3802 for the extra channel, actually, and in fact I wish it weren't there. I presently have it deactivated and run a single rear-center channel. I bought it for the extra power and the deeper power reserves that come with it. If you are running Klipsch, you don't NEED all that power, not by a long shot, but at least you know it's there if you want to annoy those neighbors I mentioned. Whatever you get, don't buy a new HT unit in that price range wihtout PLII. It's not just for VHS tapes, it's for regular TV as well... Assuming you don't have digital cable with DD signals, as I don't... But I, too, have plenty of VHS tapes that do in fact sound discernably better than they did with my old PL receiver (also a Denon). Denon makes great gear, and I recommend them highly. My dozen year-old CD player is still running strong, as was my old receiver until it was retired for better technology. Having said all this, Onkyo makes great equipment, too. Basically you can't go wrong as long as you go for the PLII thing. ------------------ -Me fail English? That's unpossible!

I, too, used to have a kick-butt aftermarket system in a long-gone Jetta... Preamp-only top-o'-the-line Kenwood deck, CD changer, two ADS amps, Quarts in the front and Infinitys in the back... Spent about 1500 bucks on it. Sounded great. Then I sold the car and ended up with a Ford with an all singing and dancing JBL system with a subwoofer installed by the factory, and was happy with that, too. Now I have a Focus and the stock system sounds much better than it has any right to, considering it's the basic CD player stereo that comes with all the hatchbacks. It sounds quite good and I can't imagine spending a grand or more on an aftermarket system when that money is better spent in my HOME. I dunno, maybe I just grew out of it? Probably not, as all that money is now sitting in my HT system. ------------------ -Me fail English? That's unpossible!

Does anyone have these Japanese remasters of the Pink Floyd catalog? I already have the MFSL copies of The Wall and DSOTM, but wondering if the much cheaper Japanese gold CD's are worth the money for some of the remaining titles.... ------------------ -Me fail English? That's unpossible!

Rented this from Blockbuster thinking that it was going to be an okay film, another Mel Gibson vehicle, a way to burn a couple of idle hours... What I wasn't prepared for was the awesome sound and overall high quality of the picture. The Dolby Digital EX was quite impressive, just as much so as the other highly-lauded war films Private Ryan and Black Hawk Down (both of which I already own). The film also was high in the wince-and-hold-on-to-the-arm-of-the-couch factor. A very impressive film, and I definitely recommend it without reservation if this kind of thing is up your alley. Not, however, for the squeamish. Perhaps the kids should be sent off to summer camp first. Also... A surprising Vietnam War film that treats the VC as something other than a throng of mindless killing machines. This film reminded me of nothing if not "Tora Tora Tora" in that it didn't demonize the enemy as a pack of heartless murderers, but as actual humans with their own valid reasons for fighting. I am surprised to find myself awarding this film five stars out of five, but that's a good sort of surprised. ------------------ -Me fail English? That's unpossible!

Right, but does the PLAYER have to be a DVD-A player, or will a DD or DTS decoder decode DVD-A as it would for a video DVD? ------------------ -Me fail English? That's unpossible!

So I'm sitting here on an all-too rare day off with absolutely nothing to do, and I thought it would be a good time to dust off some old CD's I hadn't listened to in a while. The selection of the moment is Pink Floyd's last Roger Waters album, "The Final Cut." Lots of cool audio effects that flatter my SF-2's. Very little of the boominess on male voices that practically every other speaker I have ever owned were guilty of, and the highs are more clear and out front than I remember from the last time I listened to this, which admittedly has been at least five years. But... Boy do those horns make the tape hiss of the source material noticeable! On some of the quieter passages, specifically the segues between some tracks it's pretty noticeable. To be fair, I have the Denon 3802 cranked up to -5 on the volume, which is plenty loud, but all this has led me to ruminate on the topic of the recent spate of "remastered" CD's on the market. The most recent offender I am aware of is one Peter Gabriel, whose entire catalog has been re-released. Now I have all the Peter Gabriel that I could ever want, over a dozen CD's worth, but I am suffering from the gottahaveititis of the remasters, which of course are supposed to be sonically superior to the original CD releases... Is this the wave of the future? Is every CD I own (600 of them!) going to be replaced with a newer, remastered version!? This is going to get expensive... If U2 remasters their whole collection, I am going to pitch a total fit. I have 60 CD's from them alone, including all manner of CD singles, alternate versions, etc. And this doesn't even get into the DVD Audio thing... Or SACD. Or... You get the idea. While I'm wondering along these lines, can DVD audio discs be played on any DVD player? ------------------ -Me fail English? That's unpossible!

Okay... pointedly ON topic... I bought "Elevation" as a breakin DVD for my new apartment (and new receiver, heh heh heh). I had the DVD for quite a while and I didn't watch it, as I was waiting for my system to be set up. I was hoping it was going to be as impressive as Rattle and Hum. It's not. In a nutshell, Bono's voice on the night(s) of the shooting wasn't up to par. I saw this concert live, twice no less, and what I witnessed live was not what was committed to film for this DVD. The band is as impressive as ever, and the songs are still great, but Bono's had better nights. Too bad they didn't tape the shows I saw myself, as THOSE were impressive shows. Rattle and Hum's concert performances are better. MUCH better. Signed, An absolutely incurable U2 fan of 20 years ------------------ -Me fail English? That's unpossible!

Well I guess you could run a set of "regular" wires AND the optical "wire" to the receiver, and then just switch back-and-forth between them as your needs dictate. Thruth be told, I haven't "made a tape" in so long that it's practically a non-issue. ------------------ -Me fail English? That's unpossible!

Just saw a pair of SB-1's go on eBay for 98 bucks. Look around, you might see something similar again... And yes, those little boxes make quite a big sound. ------------------ -Me fail English? That's unpossible!

Yes, this is EXACTLY the reason I wanted to buy the receiver from an authorized dealer... Ya think that BuyDig would've accepted a return for this? Ya think that I could've disconnected the 2802 and had a 3802 sitting on my entertainment center six hours later if I'd bought it on eBay? Not likely. Is it my imagination, or is the back-channel hiss a little less noticeable with this unit than the other one? By "noticeable" I do mean when you practically shove your ear in the horn, of course! I can't believe how much heavier the 3802 is when compared to the 2802. The chassis is almost identical, certainly the dimensions are exactly the same, but there is a SIX KILOGRAM WEIGHT GAIN. Yow. The remote is much, much better, too. For the first time since I purchased it ten years ago, my Sony tape deck can be operated from a remote! Not that I reckon I will spend much time doing that, of course. I did notice, however, that anything connected to an optical input can't be piped to the tape deck... Or, I imagine, the audio inputs on the VCR. So, for instance, I can't record the audio from a movie onto a cassette. Again, I don't think I will find myself missing that capability, but I do find it curious. Guess I have to run a couple of patch cords from the DVD player to the receiver and turn off the optical input if I want to record like that. In any case, not a bad experience all in all. Now if I can only get that lint off the speaker grilles! ------------------ -Me fail English? That's unpossible!

Okay... So I had this Denon 2802 for about three weeks and was feeling a little bit of "cognitive dissonance" about the purchase, feeling that perhaps I should've spent the additional 200 bucks on the 3802... but what can I do? It's paid for and that's that. Wellllll.... I discovered a small flaw on the INSIDE of the glass/acrylic/plastic window covering the LED display. Didn't see it at first, since I mostly look at the bloody thing at a range of six or eight feet and the flaw was so small that it was unnoticeable until it was seen at very close range. But... Having spent many hundreds of dollars on the receiver that would sit on my shelf for at least a half-dozen years, I felt that I at least deserved an unblemished faceplate. Back to the (authorized) dealer I went, with the following plan in mind... Return the unit for service and then talk them into trading me up to the 3802. It worked. I am SUCH a loser. It sounds great, though. ------------------ -Me fail English? That's unpossible!

Re: Ebay Everyone is going to have bad luck on Ebay at some point... Luckily for me my bad luck was with a $1 item, so no biggie. I got my SF-2's off Ebay for $400 delivered. Perfect shape except for one of the grille pins was broken, however being a bottom one it's not a big deal. Got one of my two SC-1's for 98 bucks delivered, too. All in all you are just throwing the dice and hoping that you get what you pay for... So far so good in my case. Good luck to ya. ------------------ -Me fail English? That's unpossible!

Does the 3802 have a provision for you to use a single back surround instead of having to use a pair? I presume the back surround channels are mono anyway, so would you just hook up a single rear speaker and leave the seventh channel and amplifier dormant? ------------------ -Me fail English? That's unpossible!

I'd throw in my two cents on this one, but I got MY SF-2's from someone on Ebay, so they were already broken in. I didn't notice any appreciable change over the first 100 hours or so with my SB-2's back when they were my mains... And they have drivers that are either the same or very slightly different. Like was already posted, just enjoy 'em. ------------------ -Me fail English? That's unpossible!

Man am I behind the times... A coax digital output, too, in addition to the optical? Is there a thought that one or the other is preferable? ------------------ -Me fail English? That's unpossible!

Re: Wires. As for speaker wires, the greatest extent I am willing to go to is to spring for 16ga speaker cable. I don't buy into the Huge Wire Theory, and I don't think that I would ever, EVER be able to tell... Especially since my front three channels all have cable runs of under ten feet... The surrounds, having less sonic importance in almost any imaginable situation, have much longer runs, of course, but I am thoroughly unconcerned. My wonder is whether or not I should spend fifty bucks for banana plugs. I think that the interface between the cable and the equipment is much more important than the cable itself, but then again, I have never found an appreciable sonic degradation from using bare wire connections. Keep in mind that a decade of working in and around airplanes (as well as two decades of loud music!) have probably damaged my hearing somewhat, which may help preclude me from hearing any finite differences that those with "golden ears" might notice. It probably also explains why I like the Klips and their "bright" sound. ------------------ -Me fail English? That's unpossible!

Good enough is good enough. That HAS to be my mantra. As is, I might be over-equipped for my current living situation... I live on the third floor in an apartment building and I'm quite certain that if I turn up my current system to the levels it's capable of, especially at night... Well, I will find a throng of my neighbors amassed outside the building with torches, demanding my head. More power, bigger drivers, larger subs... All very nice ideas but I frankly think that I have ALREADY gotten carried away and might need to be carted off to a padded room. Being mid-day right now on a rare day off, I spent half an hour cranking the thing while listening to Madonna's second greatest hits disc (very bass-heavy in parts), and I'm just hoping none of my neighbors are home!! And when I say "cranked" I mean I turned the volume up to a heady "-15"... Obviously there's a lot more to give from this system, and I was already worried that I was pushing the boundaries. Whenever it is I abandon my Peter Pan existence and get my own home is when I will likely upgrade to bigger and badder speakers. I am still pondering returning to my (authorized) Denon retailer and trading up to the 3802, if they'll let me, but I do have to ask myself... WHY? 90wpc is plenty with the very efficient Klipsch setup I have, and all I'd be getting would be an extra amp and an extra 20wpc all around... Slightly better electronics, too, but would I even notice?? Considering doing another unthinkable... Using the Yamaha sub only for purposes of fleshing out the bottom end of the front center-channel, by using the speaker-level inputs on the sub and running the outs to the speaker, leaving the mains (and surrounds) to do all their own work. Maybe, MAYBE investing in a better sub, but as I mentioned, this will probably only cause trouble in my current situation. *sigh* Anyone want to buy me a house? ------------------ -Me fail English? That's unpossible! This message has been edited by drdiaboloco on 07-29-2002 at 12:24 PM