ben.

Actually, re the 40Hz bump, that may be what's causing your problem. Try cutting 40Hz, and your 80Hz resonance may go away. It's common that room resonances are harmonics of another.

---------------- On 5/2/2003 4:49:18 PM Vladi wrote: I am not sure what is graphic and what is parametric EQ. Which one should I be looking for? ---------------- A graphic EQ has a slider for each freq, usually with very steep filters (slope). Unless they are of very high quality, they introduce more phase shift than they are worth for this application. A parametric EQ will have knobs that allow you to tune to the problem freq. It will also allow you to adjust the bandwidth of the filter (the spread of surrounding freqs- ie centered at 80Hz you could cut 75Hz-85Hz (very steep, narrow bandwidth) or 40Hz-120Hz (gentle slope, wide BW) and also any BW in between). Parametrics are generally more suited to your situation. Any ?s please feel free to email or PM me.

If you can't resolve the problem acousticly, your best bet would be a quality parametric EQ. Digital or analog, a true parametric will allow you to vary the attenuation level, frequency, and bandwidth. This will allow to remove just the right amount of resonance w/o removing surrounding frequencies and minimizing phase distortion (a problem with graphic EQs in general)

Will wonders never cease?! Ryan sticking up for Craig! It's great to see bygones..., but I keep looking up in the sky for fish to fall and for the Erie Canal to flow red!

"56mm travel one way, now that's incredible!" That's what she said about little boys with boom cars! Jus' jokin!!

Sounds to me like a relative polarity issue. Does the stereo image do funny things when you move side to side between them? If so, that your problem. Another way to check this is to put a 1.5 volt battery (AA, AAA) on your speaker wires. Put + and - on the appropriate wire. If your woofer pushes forward, it is wired right. This does not guarantee proper polarity of your HF, though. Hope this helps. BTW-don't EVER use a 9V battery for this trick. It will most likely shred your speakers!!

m00n- One of my all time favorite songs is "Don't Stay Home" It was the first 311 song I had heard. I don't like a lot of their other stuff, but that song kills me every time. Don't worry about your Belles. Do watcha feel.

Just wondering- who among us has ridiculous vinyl accumulations. I have ~800-850. $100 in cheap but sturdy shelving is barely holding them. Ive inherited the vast majority of it. Titles range from original issues of Kind of Blue and Brubek's Take Five to modern stuff. I've even inherited some old classical box sets and lacquer 78s. I don't know when I'll find the time to clean them all up and listen to them, but the bulk of them will be passed on to MY heirs when I check out. I know there will be a few guys out there with much bigger collections, but I was just curious as to who else on the board is as insane as I.

m00n- To answer your question, YES an 8" will sound different (noticably) than a 10" with an identical frequency response spec. There is much more to it than just FR. The impulse response, transient reproduction, dispersion characteristics and probably a couple other things I know squat aboout would be different. Regarding low end extension, I don't agree with letting the sub do all the work below 80 Hz. I prefer to let the mains go as low as they sound good, and cross the sub over as low as possible, depending on your HT processor's bass management. Reason being, people really can localize LF content down to 50-60 Hz. Crossing over below that (all things being equal) will theoretically offer greater coherency and phase response. Multi-channel specs (and good mixes) require 5 MATCHED FULL-RANGE speakers and a LFE channel. This is the ideal, and anything less is a compromise in my opinion. Keep in mind, I am living with a compromise in my HT, too, and I think it sounds pretty OK. I'm not saying anyone is doing anything "wrong", but using the RC7s represents a compromise compared to matched RF7s. But I'm 100% sure that they still sound better than my HT (see below ) Your mileage can and will certainly vary.

Digital Audio Tape? There is such a thing we call "DAT POOP", usually deposited in the first 5 min. of the tape.

Yeah, if one song sounds good, everything else will!

m00n- Nice looking room to shoot for. In that other thread, when I was referring to fabric as acoustically transparent, what I meant was that it allowed sound to pass THROUGH it. This requires, a loose, open weave. Muslin was the example, and you would be able to easily blow through it. The material you have in mind, with its tight weave and shiny finish should actually be quite reflective and hopefully relatively acoustically neutral. They are opposite extremes, but actually would funciotn in much the same way. The muslin would allow most of the sound through to reflect off the surface underneath, while your material would most likely reflect much of the sound itself. Keep in mind these are BROAD generalizations and I had too little Calculus to really get through upper level Physics!!

For reference (audition) material, use any software that you are familiar with and have heard in a variety of environments. For audio, here is my list off the top of my head: Rock/pop- Sloan "Twice Removed" Joni Mitchell "Shadows and Light" Flaming Lips "Yoshimi Battles the Pink Robots" Donna the Buffalo "Positive Friction" Any Bjork Peter Gabriel "Passion" Jazz/Legit- Paul Motian Trio "Live in Tokyo" Miles Davis "Kind of Blue" Carl Orff "Carmina Burana" (Shaw/Atlanta recording) Fredonia Jazz Ensemble "Trash the Place" Charlie Haden "Haunted Heart" Jan Garbarek "Places" Jarrett/Garbarek "Belonging" A variety of musical and production/mastering styles were used throughout this list. If everything sound good without making electronic adjustments, I know my room is set up right. In your case, if everything is to your liking with MINIMAL EQ adjustments, then you'll probably like the speaks when you get them home, if your room is reasonably suited to audio. As far as HT goes, I have no suggestions, really. My priority is skewed towards audio, if my HT doesn't bug me, then it's good enough (for now - my Heritage HT wheels are turning) Good luck in your search.

Right on middlrcreek! Very well said, and a much more reasonable response than MY previous post.

Not beat a dead horse, but regarding the brightness issue........ Yamaha NS-10 monitors are THE most popular studio monitors around. They sound like crap, but that's a whole 'nother story. Many engineers who work in studios equipped with them as nearfields will tape tissue over the tweets to tone them down without adjusting any EQ or making any changes electronically. You might consider rigging up some (hinged) absorbers in front of the tweets on your refs. Or also your room may be the culprit (a bit more involved to play around with). I don't mean to harrass you, but I hate to see anyone sell their Klipsch. (unless they are whithin driving distance of yours truly ) Anyway good luck with whatever you decide. Life's too short.....

m00n- That's a pretty creative plan. It never occured to me to flush mount acoustic treatments! Keep in mind that any material that vibrates sympathetically along with acoustic energy will act as a low freq. absorber. Curtains also will do this, depending on how far from the wall they are hung. A friend of mine had a basement recording studio, and he couldn't figure out why his live room sounded so thin. He was about to commence construction aon a floating floor when I heard about it and told him to pull down the curtain he had in front of the washer and dryer. The room got uglier, but much better sounding. If that's what you are going for, though, make sure that whatever you use to cover up the area is acoustically transparent. (muslin for instance) Otherwise you're just installing insulation. Also you may want to consider using inorganic material. I don't know much about alpaca fleece other than it's expensive, right? But I would hesitate to wall up organic material. Packing peanuts would behave acoustically in much the same way as fleece, IMHO, and you would not have to worry about settling as much. Of course, it would make a much cooler story to have alpaca fleece in your HT! Also fire code issues may arise with packing p-nuts in there. Keep me posted if you think of it.

cybergeek- I must respectfully insist that you remove your "live long and prosper" signature as it is wholly inappropriate for an audio board, and offends my purist, nit-picking, ********ing sensibilities. This is not the final frontier.

m00n- If you want a little bit nicer looking broadband absorbtion for super cheap, pick up some 1/2" foam fiberglass panels and cover them with fabric to your liking. That mirror trick works well. It identifies the area of first reflection. The arrival time from this area is typically so close to the direct sound that our brain doesn't process it as a seperate event, but blurs it together with the direct sound, changing the tone of the percieved sound(GETS HARSH). Tame your first reflections and in general there will be a marked inprovement in sound. Don't forget the cieling, and don't overdo it with absorbtion. Mix in diffusion, too!

FSBFree- I'm a big fan of the Flaming Lips - very creative and nice, hilarious guys to boot. I took some courses and assistant engineered a little for their producer, Dave Fridmann. If you haven't heard it, buy Zaireeka, get 4 stereo systems together, and your life will never be the same. Also check out tarboxroadstudios.com (I think that's right) it's Fridmann's website.

Soca music. All of it. It's great! I crank it way up in the truck and feel like I'm cruzin the Puerto Rican neighborhood where I grew up! AY MAMI!! Make it bounce!!

I scanned the review quickly, and noticed the reviewer had a 20'x20' listening room. The bozo is doing "serious" audio reviewing in a square room? Puhleeze.

The "standard" that multi-channel music is mixed to has all matched full range speakers. YMMV.

edited to reflect the true nature of things

I think the Hip were talking about me... "you say you don't give f*** about hockey, I never heard anyone say that before" I haven't watched hockey since Dallas didn't score on Buffalo to win the cup. There's still a lot of yahoos driving around with NO GOAL!! bumper stickers.

BTW- I got the plans from hifilit.com Lots of interesting photos there.