KhornKerry

I shielded my Cornwall speakers using thin sheets of steel and cardboard. The basket on the woofer was the biggest problem. See my post in the Home Theater "Magnet shield for Cornwall speaker" dated 5-14-2003. Same idea should work on the Heresy. The cost is low but it will take some work to cut and bend the steel sheet metal.

Clear ammonia from the grocery store will remove linseed oil and not harm the grill cloth or the wood. It will also remove the linseed oil from the wood veneer if this happens just reapply the linseed oil again.

Maybe this will help.

For what it worth I had 1/4" glass tops made for all 4 of my Khorns and Cornwalls, now I don't have to worry about scratches or water stains. When I got the Rosewood Khorn the tops had scratches and candle wax, I managed to remove all of the wax and most of the scratches by light sanding and re-oiling I wish the previous owner had used glass tops.

Also there is a nice pair of 1979 Walnut Klipschorns on Ebay. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3036322938&indexURL=0&photoDisplayType=2#ebayphotohosting

It makes life much easer if you can see the Denon menu on the TV. Make sure the TV is set to the same S video input as the Denon is plugged into. I have to signoff now have a happy 4th.

If it is like my denon the TV screen menu only works with the S video input to you TV.

I think the system setup is one of the menu button selections.

Go to the system setup mode and see if it is set to CENTER SPEAKER OFF. This is were you select speaker size, sub or no sub.

I have actually seen advertisements for high-end AC power cords, buy a $300.00 power cord to improve stereo performance what a joke. Ever heard of a color TV antenna try to build a black & white antenna. Things that affect the sound of a stereo in order of most important IMO 1 Speaker chose 2 Room acoustics (dimensions of room, sound reflection / absorption) 3 Electronic equipment (receiver, amps) 4 Ambient noise (the air conditioner the refrigerator) 5 Speaker wire gauge and length 6 Interconnection cables (poor shielding can sometimes be a problem)

Indyklipschfan and Artto Question on the Indy trip A/B wire test at Klipsch, what gauge was the $3000.00 dollar wire and what length was it? Was the 18 gauge wire the same length? For years I used 14 gauge lamp cord about 10 to 15 feet to run my Cornwalls, when I got the Khorns I went to Lowes and bought a 250 foot roll of 12 gauge speaker wire for about $60.00. The longest run in my system is 55 feet to the rear speakers. In my opinion this wire works fine.

Higher frequencies tend to travel on the outside of the wire this is called the skin effect. So actually a finely braided large wire 12 or 14 gauge is best because it has more surface area. On short runs maybe less than 15 feet it really doesnt matter much.

Artto RE: In fact, music itself is not a coherent source or continuous tone. Wrong again Artto. Music by isn't very nature is full of coherent sources. Guitar strings are tuned aren't they, the flute produces a very clean coherent tone. When I say continuous I mean for several cycles. Lets drop the standing wave argument for now. My original thought was that sound from a horn may not fall off with distance the same as a cone speaker would, but the data I took ( khorn RS fall off.jpg ) indicates that they are virtually the same. The room starts to dominate the attenuation after a few meters. So I have a few questions. Would transmitted radio waves from the spacecraft Voyager with its parabolic antenna fall off at inverse square? In free space is there any attenuation curve different that inverse square? Will a laser beam fall off inverse square?

I agree you need boundaries or reflections to produce standing waves in air but you also need a coherent source or continuous tone, noise dose not have that quality. You are correct that white noise is made up of all the tones BUT there is no phase relationship between the frequencies at all. I should have ran the test A weighed but I started with C as a mistake because the meter defaults to C when you turn it on and I didn't realize it until a was more than half finish. I you look at the plots there is no sign of any peaks or valleys that you would see if it were done using a signal tone. I will ask you a question, what conditions are required to produce standing waves?

First let me correct a previous error, I said the SPL meter weighting was A actually it was C weighted (more Flat). I have had a lot of complaints about using a RS SPL meter. I checked the booklet and the accuracy was stated at + - 2 dB at 114 SPL. Also I compared the meter reading to change in volume of my Denon receiver which reads out in dB, they agreed within 1 dB over a 40 db change of volume. Even if the meter has errors over the frequency range it should not matter because the source signal does not change its frequency content, only the amplitude should change with distance. I was careful not to over drive the meter, always set the scale to the middle of the range. I took measurements this weekend using a small Radio Shack cone speaker. I removed the top of my Khorn and placed the RS speaker where the center of the midrange horn had been at. The Radio Shack speaker was about 15 or 16 dB less efficient and I could only get a SPL of 99dB at 1 meter, but that is close enough. I took measurements at the same distance points as with the Khorn. Every thing was the same except the speakers. I forgot to measure the .75 meter point. So it looks like the attenuation verses distance of the 2 speakers is the same. My guess is that room reflections keep it from falling off at the inverse square rate. The blue line is the Khorn, Red is the Radio Shack speaker and the green is calculated inverse square. Kerry

First when I say white noise, it is more likely a pink noise source. A white noise source will not produce standing waves but may still have some room effects (reflections). In order to produce standing waves the source frequency has to be a continuous tone. If you look at the measured data it shows no hint of standing waves, no peaks or valleys it falls off in a very smooth way. If you try this measurement with a pure tone the plot will look like a saw tooth wave. Even if the meter has errors over the frequency range it should not matter because the source signal does not change its frequency content only the amplitude should change with distance. I was careful not to over drive the meter, always set the scale to the middle of the range. Most if not all home theater receivers use a white noise generator to set the speaker level because it does not generate standing waves. I plan to take data this weekend using a small Radio Shack speaker. I will place the front of the RS speaker where the mouth of the Khorn squawker was (grill cloth) and make measurements at exactly the same distance points as the Khorn data was taken. Now any difference in attenuation will be a result of the speakers because the room will be the same, the SPL meter will be the same, the distances from the speaker will be the same and the source will be the same. Will plot results on Monday and put it on this forum. Remember that some of the most important discovers in science and physics were often made with the crudest of instruments. As Gil pointed out I am only trying to learn something here. In my opinion: Kerry

I believe the P in the serial # means they were made in 1976. What type of wood veneer are they made? If you give me the TYPE # I can tell you.

Towelie If you could provide the Type # and Serial # that is on the paper tag behind the speaker we can tell you the year they were made and wood veneer and finish. Congratulations on the purchase that was a great deal. Kerry

Sold at $2800.00

Mace: the equation for attention I used dB = dBref - 10 X log ((D2/Dref)squared) dBref = SPL(a weighted) at 1 meter from speaker D2 = second measurement point (distance from speaker) Dref = distance 1 meter from speaker ----------------- Poindexter: base 10, A weighted (Radio Shack SPL meter on fast response) ----------------- Gil: Standing waves should not be an issue with random noise. Reflected noise should only add a little to this measurement, example if I turned on another speaker with noise at the same volume the measured SPL should only increase 3 dB (twice the power). IMHO ------- I plant to repeat experiment this using a small standard cone speaker from Radio Shack. Hope the RS speaker can be driven to 100dB SPL at 1 meter.

I think they are Oak maybe one could refinish them. What does pickled mean?

There is a pair of Klipschorn speakers on ebay current bid $1750.00 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3031195462&category=14993 4hours to go. copied from Ebay "Perfect Condition Corner Klipsch Speakers. K400 Metal. Custom Pickled Wood Finish. They were purchased in 1987 and are gorgeous.All original parts and have never had any problems.They are in mint condition!! The sound definitely fills a large room. 52" high, 31" wide, 27 1/2" deep at corner. type:KB OR 42 serial number:8741428"

John Inverse square only works for a point source, a horn concentrates the energy more or less on one direction. For example a laser beam would not follow inverse square nor would a parabolic radio antenna, or for that matter even a flash light with a parabolic reflector. As for pure tones room reflection causing standing waves will cause all kinds of measurement problems, ( believe me I have tried it). I agree that a better test could have been done outdoors. I would like to see some one do this test with standard cone speakers for comparison but all my speakers are klipsch.

Khorn attenuation/distance less than inverse square law I measured the attenuation verses distance of my Klipschorn and found it did not fall-off as inverse square law would predict. The Blue line is measured SPL of one Klipschorn using a Radio Shack digital Sound level meter. The meter only has a 1 dB resolution. The sound source was white noise from my Denon HT receiver, using the speaker level setting. I chose white noise to reduce room effects and standing waves. I set the volume such that it was 100dB at 1 meter. Measurements were taken on the axis line of the midrange (squawker) horn. The room is about 16 X15 feet, sheetrock walls and ceiling, carpeted floor and a vaulted ceiling. The green line is calculated inverse square with 1 meter distance as the reference. The red line is calculated inverse square with .25 meter distance as the reference. I believe the Khorn attenuation was less than predicted because the horn directs or concentrates the sound energy in one direction. Inverse square is based on a point source and a horn doesn't act like a point source. I tried to convert the Excel to a JPEG .

See my post in Home Theater Section called "Magnet shield for Cornwall speaker" My Cornwall had a K77-M tweeter. You can shield it by using alternating layers of steel and cardboard. The ceramic magnet and Steel frame of the K33 woofer will also need shielding.