Almost there: I have the tools, need help with design and dimensions

[USNRET]

I am adding a new thread here so it doesn't get passed up in the orignal posting under the google tool thread.

Guys, it is what it is. I suk at 3D thinking and determining measurements. I need help and it's worth a little something for me not to screw this up. I have table saw, router, router & table, drills, drill presses, skill and jig saws. If you would look in the google tool thread you can get an idea of what I am thinking http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/t/111012.aspx.

I believe (please correct any and all) that I would build a table/desk looking thing that is the length of my TV and the depth of the Belle. Two storage areas located between the left spkr/center and center/right spkr would support the weight of the TV and serve to store DVDs (standard and BluRay). I might toy with mounting the kids Wii in one and have the sensor located in the center between TV and ctr spkr. How cool would it be to have the storage units match the shape of the Belle fronts? (I'd even spring for the fabric from BEC or someone). Storage would only be as deep as neccessary for the DVDs and a false back or deep enough to have the Belle Vs" act as doors with storage behind.

The Belles are factory height with 3/8" glass on top. I was thinking of cutting a suitable size hole in the rear panel of the 'table' so that I could slide out the center speaker to gain access to the already installed wall plate behind that encompasses all my wall jacks. This would require some finger grip room on the sides of the center.

What? 3/4" hardwood plywood for the top, storage bin sides, bottom (maybe top) of bins. 1/4" ply for the back. I would stain the top and sides to match a croos between the WL and Mahogany Belles. Perhaps some trim around the edges to dress it up.

The base (electronics unit) of the TV not counting screen over hange is 30" x 18" (almost exactly the size of the Belle top) so for symmetry I'd say make the top 18 1/2. Screen width across front is 58 3/8". Oh, TV is 175 pounds. Total width I have to use across my room from stairs to wall is 127".

The dimensions in my word document was my memory at work but the real ones are included here. I have no drawing software as my hard drive took a leap out the top floor when it saw my last 401K statement. Cut sheets for wood VERY helpful. I can follow instructions but can't think on my own!

What other info do you need? What can I send to you for your work?

[colterphoto1]

3/4 plywood won't span that distance without bowing. You'll need some vertical members under the top for strength. Depending on how fancy you need the top to be, you could glue and screw some 1x pieces of hardwood (something like poplar is not too expensive but strong and warp resistant) to the underside of the top to give it strength.

[USNRET]

Thanks for the input Michael.

WOW, it won't make 60+/- inches with 175# on it without a warp? Cool, I 'll need to add some stiffners ehh stiffeners, ehh sorry it's the end of a LONG work 3 weeks and I have had a beverage this evening.

Now where/how to incorporate said members?

[jamesV]

I seen that the depth is 18.5" and the width is 30", about. What is the height that you are looking for? The thing about cutting a hole in the back, why not just leave the back open.

You might be able to use the plywood top if you have vertical supports next to the center speaker and then at the ends. Which would mean that only the 30", width of speaker, is unsupported. Plus that way it would give you a great place to nail to, a trim piece like you mentioned.

James

[USNRET]

I intended to use 3/4" ply as the sides of the storage compartments dadoed into top which would support the weight of the TV. The "back" would simply help keep everything aligned but not be weight bearing. Height of Belle with glass is 36 1/8". Wii sensor is 3/8". From floor to bottom of 'shelf' would be 36 1/2" minimum plus, what, another 1/4" +/- to allow freedom of movement to slide center speaker in?

[jamesV]

Cool I will see if I can sketch something up for you either tonight or tomorrow.

James

[Bill H.]

Disregard.................

[colterphoto1]

incorporate the stiffening 'ribs' as part of the front edge which will add some dimension to the 3/4" making it look stiffer as well. In a depth of 18", I'd put 3-4 such ribs. 3/4" plywood isn't terribly strong when you put a load like you're going to do on a long span of the material. Will the upright sections be just 30" or so apart, but the total width of the unit be 60" so?

A three sided open box is very weak structrually. To make the unit 'rack-proof' (so it doesn't collapse sideways) you'll want either an integral back or some stiffening members across the rear of the cabinet. Angles braces are used to hold up truss bridges and the triangle is a very strong shape, but this is sometimes difficult to do in cabinetry, so you'll want something to keep the sides parallel to each other. If the back of the cabinet is largely open, perhaps put a span of material 6" high or so along the bottom of the back panels of the 'bookshelf/storage' units to hold everything together.

[USNRET]

incorporate the stiffening 'ribs' as part of the front edge which will add some dimension to the 3/4" making it look stiffer as well. In a depth of 18", I'd put 3-4 such ribs. 3/4" plywood isn't terribly strong when you put a load like you're going to do on a long span of the material. Will the upright sections be just 30" or so apart, but the total width of the unit be 60" so?

Approx:

Total width 60" enough to fit under TV to support weight but give me what little room I have for speaker movement. Uprights would be at left and right edges and then and other two uprights spaced just outside of center speaker to form the storage areas. So, from left to right along the 60" width would be plumb with left edge, 13.5" to right, opening for center 30-31", upright, then another 13.5" to plumb with end. I am allowing some wiggle room in the center to get center speaker in and out to access wiring.

[USNRET]

A three sided open box is very weak structrually. To make the unit 'rack-proof' (so it doesn't collapse sideways) you'll want either an integral back or some stiffening members across the rear of the cabinet. Angles braces are used to hold up truss bridges and the triangle is a very strong shape, but this is sometimes difficult to do in cabinetry, so you'll want something to keep the sides parallel to each other. If the back of the cabinet is largely open, perhaps put a span of material 6" high or so along the bottom of the back panels of the 'bookshelf/storage' units to hold everything together.

Agreed, at first I was going with 3/4 fully across back with cutout to access wiring panel but a stress engineer at work said only something like 1/4" ply to reduce weight as the sides of the storage units would be the load bearing walls.

Add 3/4" bottom shelf (and possibly top) in storage bin to add rigidity but keep them off floor by 1/4" or so to reduce drag when moving and better fit any un-level flooring.

[USNRET]

God wish I had my Camera.

Just build using 2 x4's on each wall. between each speaker under the top use angle irons, screwed under the top and to the wall (shelf braces). You can buy precut MDF peices . Solid as a rock, and above the speakers. JMHO..........................Good Luck and Post Pics when you get done.

Not sure I follow but take a close look at stairway to left speaker, no room in front of speaker.

[jamesV]

USNRet,

You have a pm.

James

[WMcD]

A very nice concept.

I agree that a 60 inch span of 3/4 ply will bow (deflect) with a 200 odd pound TV. But it looks to me that such is not what your're designing. Rather, there is a 30 inch span over the center Belle with the twin cabinets providing support on either side. If that is correct, then 3/4 ply should be okay. A related issue is the structure on the bottom of the TV. If there are feet or the like on the bottom, these will dictate where the weight of the TV is applied to the structure. I'd think it is not going to solely at the center of the 30 inch span.

It looks like you're making a variation on the classic improvised desk where there are two filing cabinets with a slab of plywood on top. But you are making cabinets in place of the filing cabinets. What would be a place for the desk user's legs (when seated) is the home for the center Belle.

I have built a dolly for my Belle (dollies for Belle's) and I think you will need that so that you can slide the center Belle in and out of its home.

When I was making speakers, I drew the structures, full scale on very big graph paper. Front, top, and side view. Isometric views like we used to do in school in the days before computers. I still have a roll of the stuff. If you send me a pm or e-mail with your snail mail address, I can send you a few yards. No charge.

There is an issue with using full sized graph paper. The grid lines are not always perfectly accurate (paper shrinks and swells). But for boxes, it is sufficient to noodle out what goes where and dimensions. Doing this is part of the "measure twice (or three times for me) and cut once."

For what it is worth, when I built the Jubilee's, I went metric. HD stocks one steel tape measure which is metric. Far more rational to use rather than picking out (e.g.) 37 13/16 ths. If you're table saw is English, this might not help. In an earlier project I used a three-foot rule which had decimal inches. Unfortunately that disappeared during a construction project.

Wm McD.

[USNRET]

A very nice concept.

I agree that a 60 inch span of 3/4 ply will bow (deflect) with a 200 odd pound TV. But it looks to me that such is not what your're designing. Rather, there is a 30 inch span over the center Belle with the twin cabinets providing support on either side. If that is correct, then 3/4 ply should be okay. A related issue is the structure on the bottom of the TV. If there are feet or the like on the bottom, these will dictate where the weight of the TV is applied to the structure. I'd think it is not going to solely at the center of the 30 inch span.

It looks like you're making a variation on the classic improvised desk where there are two filing cabinets with a slab of plywood on top. But you are making cabinets in place of the filing cabinets. What would be a place for the desk user's legs (when seated) is the home for the center Belle.

I have built a dolly for my Belle (dollies for Belle's) and I think you will need that so that you can slide the center Belle in and out of its home.

When I was making speakers, I drew the structures, full scale on very big graph paper. Front, top, and side view. Isometric views like we used to do in school in the days before computers. I still have a roll of the stuff. If you send me a pm or e-mail with your snail mail address, I can send you a few yards. No charge.

There is an issue with using full sized graph paper. The grid lines are not always perfectly accurate (paper shrinks and swells). But for boxes, it is sufficient to noodle out what goes where and dimensions. Doing this is part of the "measure twice (or three times for me) and cut once."

For what it is worth, when I built the Jubilee's, I went metric. HD stocks one steel tape measure which is metric. Far more rational to use rather than picking out (e.g.) 37 13/16 ths. If you're table saw is English, this might not help. In an earlier project I used a three-foot rule which had decimal inches. Unfortunately that disappeared during a construction project.

Wm McD.

Yes sir, you have it all correct. BTW, the TV weight is distributed evenly across the entire bottom. Thanks for the offer, you have PM.

Mike

[USNRET]

Thanks for all the help gentlemen. I will get to work on some version over the holidays if the slave driver here gives me a break from the flooring install. Post a pict when done.

James, William and David; thanks a bunch! [][][]

[colterphoto1]

good points Gil. I'd still support 3/4" plywood over a 30" span. Just a 1/2 of Poplar under the front and rear edges will help keep things nice and straight. You can glue and nail a 'face frame' of poplar to the structure and route a nice rounded edge on it if you have a router. This is what I have done on my LP shelving.

[USNRET]

Mr Gil, SIR, I received the graph paper today. Such generousity and FEDEX to boot. Thank you, thank you! It will be put to good use as soon as possible.

[USNRET]

Little update, very little. When I got to the panty to lay the new hardwood flooring I had to remove the built in shelving as it rested on the floor. The wife decide that I should make an entire new shelving system. I built it out of nice wood with extensive millwork and I was prepping it to start the staining process and SHE STATES SHE WANTS IT PAINTED GLOSS WHITE AAHHHHHHHHHHHH! 4 days of routing edges, being extremely anal about plumb, square, yada yada so I would not have to use any filler. I know that I am slow but I could have slapped that puppy together, filled in with chaulk and rolled some white on it.

OK, I feel better. Back to the point, I have made the drawings using Gil's graph paper and the ideas submitted by you fine folk, made the major cuts out of 3/4" oak ply and ripped some 3/4 x 2" oak for trim and stiffeners (decided on 2" so I can enlay the Wii sensor and IR repeater sensor). I even shelled out for a new dado blade as my Craftsman rotary adjustment blade just never made a smooth bottom, always had an inverse "V" at the bottom. Memo to self, buy some stock in saw blades.

I"ll get back to work soon as I can.

[Coytee]

When I got to the panty to lay the new hardwood

uh......

hmmmmmmmmm..............

er........

oh, never mind.

[:#]

[bhendrix]

When I got to the panty to lay the new hardwood

uh......

hmmmmmmmmm..............

er........

oh, never mind.

Too easy, Richard . . . . .