hdmi vs optical

[Allstarmike]

Hi guy just wondering if someone can explain the advantages of using hdmi over optical i know that hdmi supports the new formats like thx select and 7.1 but are there any sound improvements like when i switched from rca to optical it was like night and day.Im currently using optical with my amp set to Dolby digital amd it sounds as good as this amp will ever sound.Is there anything better then dolby digital in these new amps?,, im looking to upgrade and not to interested in this hdmi in thing(not yet) why mix my video with my sound in the same wire also i will be sticking to 5.1

thanks

[TNRabbit]

Well, supposedly optical (as in TOSLINK, right?) was developed for MUCH less intensive work than it does now, and HDMI is supposed to be better at transmitting higher rates of 1's and 0's....I can't say for certain. I know I'm happy with my TOSLINK connections for SACD and DVD...

[Rich_Guy]

If you are using 5.1 I don't think HDMI will be any benefit over digital optical cable for sound quality.

The only advantage of HDMI for audio would be the new 7.1 formats and the simplicity of one cable.

[Eskimo1]

HDMI is needed for multi-channel lossless audio, i.e. Dolby TrueHD, DTS-HD, etc. 5.1 or higher. (I guess technically 3.1 or higher, but who encodes things 3 channel on the source?)

For 5.1 DD/DTS or 2-chanel lossless, optical is just fine, and because it's a digital signal, there is no quality improvement by going to HDMI.

But with Monoprice HDMI cables being ~$5 for the shorter ones, why not? HDMI cables aren't indestructable, but they're not as fragile asTOSlink, either..

[Rich_Guy]

HDMI is needed for multi-channel lossless audio, i.e. Dolby TrueHD, DTS-HD, etc. 5.1 or higher. (I guess technically 3.1 or higher, but who encodes things 3 channel on the source?)

These can also be done through some players/receivers multi-channel analog in/outputs.

[RockOn4Klipsch]

Primary difference is the bandwidth each cable can handle. As others have said you can get the newer formats via HDMI or analog outputs. I'm not sure the exact numbers of bandwidth with out looking but HDMI i believe can deliver upto like 20x more informations optical like 6.5mb or something and HDMi capable of like 10 gigs or something. Numbers are wrong just a guess.

[Allstarmike]

So would you guys say that the new 5.1 Dolby true hd (which only hdmi can carry) is better than the 5.1Dolby digital on the older amps with out hdmi ?.I'm wondering because i have a choice between a new style hk with hdmi 1.3 or an older rotel (higher end,lower distortion,more power) that i can get for cheaper,i know that they are both excellent amps and would probably be happy with either,,i just want the best sounding system possible within my budget [H]

Thanks

[Eskimo1]

So would you guys say that the new 5.1 Dolby true hd (which only hdmi can carry) is better than the 5.1Dolby digital on the older amps with out hdmi ?.

There is no doubt about it. It's like comparing SACD vs a regular CD - Often, you might not notice a night and day differenc, but there's times when you'll say "HOLY CRAP" when you do hear the differences.

Get the newer AVR, and update the firmware before you do anything (it wipes the unit clean) (also, make sure you go back and double-check the levels with a SPL meter after auto-setup - mine were off - both the 254 and the 354), and save up for a real outboard amplifier (Emotiva, Outlaw, etc) and you'll forget how to even spell Rotel.

Not to mention, HDMI switching is very convenient!

[Eskimo1]

These can also be done through some players/receivers multi-channel analog in/outputs.

Right, but the question here is optical vs. HDMI []

[tommyboy]

When I bought my Blu Ray player, I used an optical wire for about a week; then broke down and bought a HDMI cable. And the sound was WAY better with the HDMI. It was a little "brighter" sounding, but once I re calibrated my receiver, it was g t g. If you have a HDMI capable receiver, I highly recommend using a HDMI wire. partsexpress.com has some for pretty cheap.......

[tommyboy]

One more thing. My receiver does not have the newer sound formats. But supposedly setting your player to PCM is the same. I guess this is true because like I said, WAY better sound with HDMI.......

[IndyKlipschFan]

These can also be done through some players/receivers multi-channel analog in/outputs.

Right, but the question here is optical vs. HDMI

Sorry to hijack this thread.... But this is important too.

True, but you can take an older pre amp and bring it up to date this way too! This way on Blue Ray, you DO get all the newer sound formats!

One snag I see maybe.... Using analog outs is say the DVD is only in 5.1 as most are... My current Pre takes it to PL II EX now so all 7 channels play. If I use the Analog inputs, it bypasses the Pre Amp surround modes.

If I use analog outs of the Blu Ray DVD player with a regular DVD into the Pre Amp...... will it only play in 5.1 or will it go to PL II EX to 7.1?

I think I am limited to 5.1.... Ouch.. If so, that older DVD player will stay in the rack too.

Any thoughts Sfogg or Daymon?<< Or other Blu Ray experts

[Eskimo1]

Sorry to hijack this thread.... But this is important too.

True, but you can take an older pre amp and bring it up to date this way too! This way on Blue Ray, you DO get all the newer sound formats!

One snag I see maybe.... Using analog outs is say the DVD is only in 5.1 as most are... My current Pre takes it to PL II EX now so all 7 channels play. If I use the Analog inputs, it bypasses the Pre Amp surround modes.

If I use analog outs of the Blu Ray DVD player with a regular DVD into the Pre Amp...... will it only play in 5.1 or will it go to PL II EX to 7.1?

I think I am limited to 5.1.... Ouch.. If so, that older DVD player will stay in the rack too.

Good point, and the answer is.... it depends! Some processors bypass all processing when a signal comes in over the analog inputs, some will only do tone controls, some will treat it the same as any other input... Depends on your processor... Best to check the manual...

On your Sunfire TGIV (my neighbor has the same unit - it's a nice one, but he's upgrading in '09!), it bypasses all processing, so it's going to be 5.1. Best bet is probably to use the TOSlink optical or coax digital to the Sunfire and not get the lossless audio, as you'd be losing the bass managemen in addition to the surround processing.

[IndyKlipschFan]

On your Sunfire TGIV (my neighbor has the same unit - it's a nice one,
but he's upgrading in '09!), it bypasses all processing, so it's going
to be 5.1. Best bet is probably to use the TOSlink optical or coax
digital to the Sunfire and not get the lossless audio, as you'd be
losing the bass managemen in addition to the surround processing.

Just when u think you have everything "dialed in" they come out with something else?

And they wonder why were fed up with most things audio?

What is he switching to, and why? I am curious..

OK, TIME TO RANT HERE>>>>

I love the Sunfire TG IV. it's been just awesome... But I know the newer Sunfire 401 does not support the new HD formats too. I am afraid Bob Carver is out of the loop, and let's face it, the industry is soo dead...They (Sunfire) didn't upgrade enough for the newer Blue Ray formats.. It is a shame...

Integra seems to have borrowed from Anthem which the D2, which is a statement upon itself product.... to the masses. So far in here people love them.

Emotiva looks interesting as well.

Always in the back of my mind is Mcintosh too.... but you pay a arm n leg...and in this environment.. what will be the new xyz thing in 6 months to 2 years? (Even if you get some more money back in trade... The idea is to keep what you have and enjoy it..) The timeline seems to be getting shorter.

Once everyone buys into this cable to this (AKA HDMI....) to that, and a high def TV...by 2009.... where do you (we) really go after that? Everyone now has the standard.. I have a friend with hardly a pot to pee in... no credit cards./.but no money either....he doesn't make doo dooo... But he has a PS3 and a High Def TV.. go figure.. The masses already have it... There is no new game consoles.. X box, PS3, Wii, ... he has them all and tired of them already.

Were living in strange times... I guess I could buy the HT in a box... Or the BOSE, it seems to have everything.. WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[Arky]

Optical or coax digital out of dvd player into preamp means the preamp processes the audio. If you only run HDMI out of player into preamp, which unit processes the audio. The preamp?

[Deang]

"Blu-ray Disc, introduced in 2006, offers new high-fidelity audio features that require HDMI for best results. Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD, and DTS-HD Master Audio use bitrates exceeding S/PDIF's capacity. HDMI 1.3 can transport Dolby Digital Plus, TrueHD, and DTS-HD bitstreams in compressed form. This capability allows for an AV receiver with the necessary decoder to decode the compressed audio stream."

"Blu-ray permits secondary audio decoding whereby the disc content can tell the player to mix multiple audio sources together before final output.Some Blu-ray players can decode all of the audio codecs internally and can output LPCM audio over HDMI. Multi-channel LPCM can be transported over an HDMI connection and as long as the AV receiver supports multi-channel LPCM audio over HDMI, and supports HDCP, the audio reproduction is equal in resolution to HDMI 1.3 bitstream output. Some low cost AV receivers, such as the Onkyo TX-SR506, do not support audio processing over HDMI and are labelled as "HDMI pass through" devices."

All I know is that Dolby TrueHD is incredible.

[Allstarmike]

Ok now that's making sense of it all thanks deanG and to all ohers

[Eskimo1]

Indy - He's waiting to see and hear my Emotiva UMC-1 - He's no longer very keen on dropping thousands into his equipment anymore when that kind of performance can be had for a fraction of the price these days. (He's got some damn nice stuff, DefTech towers and subs, Carver amps, Rotel DVD, etc) I kinda won him over to the internet-direct side after he saw and heard the XPA-5 that's driving my mains, and heard how a $1k DIY sub setup compares against his, which cost multiples of that..

[IndyKlipschFan]

Indy - He's waiting to see and hear my Emotiva UMC-1

OK, I will be curious what you think and what he thinks as well.

As much as I got excited about the analog ins... and you could do it that way....I am afraid your gonna need the pre to handle it better for your system.

So back to look at pre amps that have all the newer blue ray sound modes as well. (And still trying to save some money?? If possible??) I am not too cheap... but always looking for a deal just like the next guy.

Integra and Emotiva have an edge so far. Even McIntosh would not know what to do with a "True HD" send???

Bottom line is.... Is it really that good, or a marketing gimmick?

So are we going from 98 to 99% jump in esoteric joy... or hard for 99% of people to tell..... or compared to what I have a 50% to 99% Happiness?

Again not to brag.. but Dolby PL II EX for movies on the Sunfire.... It is just awesome. Seriously and I am not kidding myself here too. . It is! You get all 9 speakers (I use 4 La Scala's for surround backs) and 2 subs playing a movie like Batman "Dark Knight" or Sports say NFL Colts Football... You get lost like your there! And 2 channel.... I have a effect of a phantom center that is to die for.. You swear it is there... Is that more a speaker placement and room dimension thing...(following guides and having some luck too??) or still part of the processing too? I would hate to lose that as well?

Thank Goodness I have separate amps!!!!!