Cpt_John Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 I am looking at adding sub(s) to the home theater I am creating and have read several times that two subs are better than one. If I was able to purchase a couple of used Sub-10's for a little more than what a new Sub-12 would cost would I see a dramatic increase in performance or would it be just about as good buying one larger sub? I would appreciate any thoughts, suggestions, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommyboy Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 I would rather have you get one Sub 12 for a couple reasons. We see A LOT of posts about amps going out on sub 10s. And another reason is that the Sub 12 is FAR superior to the sub 10. As far as 2 10's, it might create louder bass, but not necessarily better sounding bass. If you could rack up the extra cash, you should get 2 12's. I'm thinking about selling my 10 to help with buying another sub 12............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbon summit Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 I have two sub-10s I'm using and one sub-12 that is still in the box waiting to be used so job and family willing I may have time to give you an opinion on the exact setup you're thinking about soon.!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWL Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 One Sub-12. [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twistedcrankcammer Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 I am looking at adding sub(s) to the home theater I am creating and have read several times that two subs are better than one. If I was able to purchase a couple of used Sub-10's for a little more than what a new Sub-12 would cost would I see a dramatic increase in performance or would it be just about as good buying one larger sub? I would appreciate any thoughts, suggestions, etc. Cpt_John, The Sub-10 has an output of 115dB and plays down to 28Hz, That means a pair of them have a maximum output of 118dB. The Sub-12 has an output of 117dB and plays down to 24Hz. The 1dB output more of a pair of 10's will not be audible in difference to the human ear. 4Hz while not much, will make a minor ammount of difference in home theatre explosions and such. While the pair of 10s will tale up more floor space then a single 12, with a pair of subs you will have an extra if one sub goes down, but if you buy the single 12, you can add another 12 later, or save up for a much better subwoofer that will actually play subsonic tones!! An Epic Qonquest may cost as much as three Klipsch Sub-12s, but it is about 10 times the speaker, plus I always saw an advantage to buying speakers that are large enough, an heavy enough, that they are not easily moved or stolen even if by two thieves! Roger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbon summit Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Wow. Its been two weeks since I brought the Sub 12 home and I finally opened it up tonight. I've been sick, kid has been sick, work, life... busy! I can't explain why when on paper the two Sub 10s should be louder but I swear the one Sub 12 stomps the two Sub 10s if they are set at the same spot on the gain dial. Probably not a real scientific way to judge but thats one thing I noticed. I listened to the pair of 10s then pulled one out and put the 12 in it's place and turned one on and the other off and went back and forth. If loud is your goal the 12 is the way to go. I thought the bass was a little more boomy than the 10 but still the bass was stronger with the 12. I think for movies I'd like the 12 better but for music I think I'd like the 10 better. Like I mentioned about if the gain was set the same the 12 wins but you can turn the gain up on the 10 to keep up and quite frankly they both go louder than you'd really want at one point or another on the gain dial. I think I'll be returning the 12 to Best Buy. I'm shopping for an amp and I think the money could be better spent in that area than a different sub. I got the 12 at BB for 325 plus tax so $344.50 total. Not a bad price but again I'd rather spend it on an amp. Through some shrewd ebay buying I bought one of my 10s for $93.87 shipped and the other for $102.26 shipped so I'm into the pair for $196.13!!! I guess thats my situation though. If I was paying full retail for a Sub 12 or for two Sub 10s I'd probably go with the one Sub 12. A picture of my sound lab where the tests where preformed below. With this kind of subjective testing it goes with out saying that YMMV!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAMP Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 I want to do kinda the oppsite of what you have done! I already have 2 sub 12's and they are ported. I want to add a hard hitting 10 inch sealed sub into the picture to have 3 subs or maybe 4 subs at once going. I'm not going for the power because 1 Sub 12 would do the job. I have been to busy to try anything lately... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWL Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 3 subs or maybe 4 subs at once going. Ask them to throw in a bottle of Advil with each sub.......you'll need it. I've gone that route and trying to get that many subs to work together is discouraging. Save your money on multiple subs and buy one good one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbon summit Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 I've aways wondered about the signals canceling out even when using two subs more or less more. If at some point I'm losing more than I'm gaining. "Save your money on multiple subs and buy one good one." What are some suggestions for a good sub. I realize the Sub 10 & 12 are cheap subs in the big picture but how much better can bass really get? What separates the good subs from the great ones? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twistedcrankcammer Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 I've aways wondered about the signals canceling out even when using two subs more or less more. If at some point I'm losing more than I'm gaining. "Save your money on multiple subs and buy one good one." What are some suggestions for a good sub. I realize the Sub 10 & 12 are cheap subs in the big picture but how much better can bass really get? What separates the good subs from the great ones? Carbon Summit, First; I n regaurds to your 12 being louder then the pair of 10s. Try switching one of the 10 sub only at it's 0-180 phase switch while the othe 10 is off. Try several times in both positions. If the subs diaphram is pushing out while your speakers is sucking in, it will not play as loud, and that may be your problem. After you get the one 10 sub in phase with your speakers, try to match the second sub to the first after you have figgured the first one out, again by only switching the pase switch back and forth on your second sub. This is what the phase switch is for, and could explain why you are getting less from the two 10s then one 12. How much better can Bass really get???? Do you hear things with your subs on in movie explosions etc. that you cannot hear with your subs turned off?? You are missing alot of the frequency spectrum that is in the recording without the sub aren't you?? Those Subs have no real low frequency extension into the lower audible frequencies. By my own definition, a sub woofer should be able to play SUB-SONIC!!! Most people can hear down to 20 Hz and I gaurantee you those 10s aren't putting out any appreciable sound that low, let alone sub sonic. You are missing at least half of the material in a good movie explosion that can be heard as well as felt, let alone the first time you get to hear your windows rattle and feel your chest get beat on and the couch vibrate like hell when the tone comming out of the sub cannot be audibly heard. YES!! I have a pair of Velodyne HGS 18IIs and you can get competition DVDs with sub sonic sweeps that you cannot hear that will knock pictures off of the wall and knick knacks off of the shelf. Your picture looked like Forte's IIs, I really didn't study it. Those are still good quallity Klipsch speakers. I haven't really heard a Klipsch Sub that I felt deserved a Klipsch badge!! You have to realize that when I started listening there only was the Heritage line, and my first Klipsch owned was Quartets from the "NEW" line-up! They didn't have synergy or Reference, let alone friggin Quintets. The RSW-15 is the closest thing to a sub that I personally have heard from Klipsch, and it isn't half the sub that an Epic conquest is at $1800 brand new. Save your money and buy a true sub-woofer before spending it on an amp, you will get more increase in sound quallity for your dollar!! Roger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randyman Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 I've aways wondered about the signals canceling out even when using two subs more or less more. If at some point I'm losing more than I'm gaining. "Save your money on multiple subs and buy one good one." What are some suggestions for a good sub. I realize the Sub 10 & 12 are cheap subs in the big picture but how much better can bass really get? What separates the good subs from the great ones? Carbon Summit, First; I n regaurds to your 12 being louder then the pair of 10s. Try switching one of the 10 sub only at it's 0-180 phase switch while the othe 10 is off. Try several times in both positions. If the subs diaphram is pushing out while your speakers is sucking in, it will not play as loud, and that may be your problem. After you get the one 10 sub in phase with your speakers, try to match the second sub to the first after you have figgured the first one out, again by only switching the pase switch back and forth on your second sub. This is what the phase switch is for, and could explain why you are getting less from the two 10s then one 12. How much better can Bass really get???? Do you hear things with your subs on in movie explosions etc. that you cannot hear with your subs turned off?? You are missing alot of the frequency spectrum that is in the recording without the sub aren't you?? Those Subs have no real low frequency extension into the lower audible frequencies. By my own definition, a sub woofer should be able to play SUB-SONIC!!! Most people can hear down to 20 Hz and I gaurantee you those 10s aren't putting out any appreciable sound that low, let alone sub sonic. You are missing at least half of the material in a good movie explosion that can be heard as well as felt, let alone the first time you get to hear your windows rattle and feel your chest get beat on and the couch vibrate like hell when the tone comming out of the sub cannot be audibly heard. YES!! I have a pair of Velodyne HGS 18IIs and you can get competition DVDs with sub sonic sweeps that you cannot hear that will knock pictures off of the wall and knick knacks off of the shelf. Your picture looked like Forte's IIs, I really didn't study it. Those are still good quallity Klipsch speakers. I haven't really heard a Klipsch Sub that I felt deserved a Klipsch badge!! You have to realize that when I started listening there only was the Heritage line, and my first Klipsch owned was Quartets from the "NEW" line-up! They didn't have synergy or Reference, let alone friggin Quintets. The RSW-15 is the closest thing to a sub that I personally have heard from Klipsch, and it isn't half the sub that an Epic conquest is at $1800 brand new. Save your money and buy a true sub-woofer before spending it on an amp, you will get more increase in sound quallity for your dollar!! Roger well put[Y] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommyboy Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 The Sub 12 is more than enough for my bass needs. It's a rare thing that my 10 even gets turned on....... but it is nice knowing that it's there for "backup" though!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbon summit Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 twistedcrankcammer, Thanks for the suggestions. I do know what the phase switch is and have done just that already. When I tested the 10 and the 12 individually against each other the 12 just straight out had more bass but was boomier than I like. I've read threads where others have done a side by side test on the two with the same results so I guess I must not be too far off in my findings. Others may agree or disagree on the boomy part but I guess that is a pretty subjective thing. Thanks for explaining to me what I'm missing out on, I guess I never thought about sub sonic sounds. Like I said before I realize the Sub 10 & 12 are cheap subs in the big picture and asked for some suggest ins on better subs. I guess if getting a better sub is going to cost me $1800 I'll stick with my cheap ones for a while. For me I'm very happy with my Fore IIs and Academy HT setup and I realize that they are no where near the top of the Klipsch family. I'm still always looking for ways to make it better and improve it but spending that much on a sub doesn't seem worth it to me at this time. I understand what you're saying about going from no sub to cheap sub, and I'm sure the leap from cheap sub to good sub is just as good but I just got my cheap subs so I want to string this happiness along for as long as I can. I'm sure when I experience a good sub I'll be hooked too!!! "Save your money and buy a true sub-woofer before spending it on an amp, you will get more increase in sound quality for your dollar!!"--- I do disagree with this but again we are all just sharing opinions to help each other find a better sound with what we have so I welcome your advice. I went from no amp and just my receiver to having an amp and the difference in the sound quality was very noticeable. I just sold that amp last week and yesterday ordered different one so I've been without for a week or so and the lack of sound stage is noticeable. You don't show your system on your signature or profile so I'm not sure what you have but it sounds like you've been involved in audio for a while and I'm sure you've tried different amps and know what I mean. I've got my eye on a pre/pro to replace my receiver as well. Will it improve the sound of my system? Probably. Is it all a waste of money in the end? Probably. Do I love every minute of it? YES!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 I listened to the pair of 10s then pulled one out and put the 12 in it's place and turned one on and the other off and went back and forth. If loud is your goal the 12 is the way to go. I thought the bass was a little more boomy than the 10 but still the bass was stronger with the 12. I think for movies I'd like the 12 better but for music I think I'd like the 10 better. Like I mentioned about if the gain was set the same the 12 wins but you can turn the gain up on the 10 to keep up and quite frankly they both go louder than you'd really want at one point or another on the gain dial. Did you try swapping positions when you did 10 vs 12? The room has an extremely large influence on the sound quality of bass. Two different subwoofer positions could easily be different by more than +-10dB...even with the same sub. Having two subs playing at the same time from different positions presents a lot more complexity to the behavior...(not to say that it's always worse). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 I am looking at adding sub(s) to the home theater I am creating and have read several times that two subs are better than one. If I was able to purchase a couple of used Sub-10's for a little more than what a new Sub-12 would cost would I see a dramatic increase in performance or would it be just about as good buying one larger sub? I would appreciate any thoughts, suggestions, etc. I would highly recommend a single Sub-12. It will be easier to dial in and I really think it's going to perform better too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommyboy Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 I think the reviews say it all...... http://www.klipsch.com/products/details/synergy-sub-12.aspx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtximages Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 for good sounding base use only one sub. i have nighmares getting my dual subs to sound right. they seem to always sound better when the polaritys are opposite.. that doenst make sense to me but it works. one sub will lessen the muddy effect as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt_John Posted February 12, 2009 Author Share Posted February 12, 2009 Thank you for all the replies. It looks like the majority is recommending going with one Sub-12 and that is what I have decided to go with ...........at least for starts ...... Thanks again for you advice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbon summit Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 clspruiell judging by your signature you've got quite a little Klipsch family living in your house!!!! I really wasn't all about the two sub idea until Hamp posted that pic of his system and I fell in love with the look. I like things to be symmetrical!! I had mine in the rear of the room and there were a lot of suggestions to move it up front. When I moved it there it upset the balance of things looks wise and then Hamp's pic got me thinking. If I was able to do it all over again I'd probably go with one Sub 12 but like I've posted before I fell into the first Sub 10 cheap and then when the symmetrical thought came in to my head since I alread had one 10 so I may as well get another. I'm into my second 10 pretty cheap too so I guess if I was to make a change it won't hurt too much but at the moment I'm happy with this set up so why upgrade now? I agree about getting two subs to sound right. I swear my mind plays tricks on me as I toggle the between 0 and 180. If a guy was to get a cheap SPL meter from Radio Shack would that tell you if you had it right? Thinking the highest SPL is the setting that is in phase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbon summit Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 clspruiel, I notice you've got a lot of subs listed if you were going to recomend one sub to own what would it be? (this is where the upgrades start... []) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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