carbon summit Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 I've got Forte IIs in front and an Academy center with KG 2.5s for surrounds. I found a nice pair of Forte IIs in Denver (about 12 hours round trip from me in Rapid City, SD) which seems to be about as close as I seem to find them around where I live so I'd like to get them for surrounds. OK my question is I'm sure some of you out there have had Forte IIs in the front and smaller speakers in the rear before and upgraded to Fortes all the way around. Was it worth it? Now that I have the option to buy spending the money becomes real and I wonder if I'll really gain that much doing it. Already owning a pair of Forte IIs I realize they are night and day better speakers than the KG 2.5s I currently have, I don't mean it in that way, I just mean that since rears don't see much action in HT do I really gain that much? What about music? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastlane Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 If you do get them, I believe forum member Mudkicker may be interested in your 2.5's Win/win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USNRET Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Nope, wouldn't work, idea is totally off base. Send them here. Actually, if room is available I would think that you would do this just until you found just 1 more Forte II and you know where that would go. Seriously, as much as I like the Academy, nothing beats all dang 5 the same! With that said, I have been asked several times what I will be using for rears/surrounds when my extendo heritage is gone from the back. Frankly I am going to use the RS-7s that have been there forever since just as you say there just ain't that much in the back. To me it's all filler for movies and as for as muti channel music (and I LOVE "When Hell Freezes Over" DTS DVD) I just don't like the sound of what seems false to me. So my vote is same across if necessary sacrifice the rear. EDITED: But when I grow up I'll get another set of Belles for the rear so what does that say? Need or WANT? If the Fortes are priced right and you have the bucks, get'em! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbon summit Posted January 28, 2009 Author Share Posted January 28, 2009 Room in the front for another Forte II at center would be tough. I thought long and hard about buying wuzzer's single Quartet he had for sale and measured and played around with everything and it just didn't work with my room/set up. The Academy is about the perfect size for what I have going right now. That being said I'm in need of a different entertainment center. Mine is old and was a cheap POS when I got it years ago. If I buy a new one I'll need to decided if it is going to have a place for the Academy or not. But for now it fits great and sounds as good as I've heard in my system so until I know what I'm missing I'm happy!! I'll probably buy the Forte IIs regardless, I'll wonder what I'm missing until I have them as surrounds. I wish I had a next door neighbor with a pair of Forte IIs and Quartets as his HT so I could borrow them both and use them in the rear to see whats what and buy accordingly. It sounds crazy but a pair of Academies would probably sound great and be just the right size. I say crazy because of the price of two Academies I don't think its worth it. I'd just buy the Forte IIs for less. But in truth I'm not unhappy with what I have now which is why I asked if the difference is that much different. A subjective thing that has no answer I know. But if on a scale of 1-10 the change was a 8-10 I'd be all over it but if is on the low end then maybe I'd be better off spending money on speakers I don't have like a pair of Cornwalls for a 2 channel setup downstairs for example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted January 28, 2009 Moderators Share Posted January 28, 2009 It is a little hard for me to say because I went from Synergy SS-1 to fortes and that was a big difference. Get the forte ll's and try them out......and just for fun try one in the center []...you will want to rebuild that entertainment center if you do that ! [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merkin Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 ditto on what dtel said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardP Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 CS, I have traveled your route almost exactly. Had Forte mains, with 2.2s as center and surrounds. Got two more Fortes for rears. Then had a Quartet center for a while, but a 50-lb horizontal speaker on top of my 55" old-style rear-projection TV was a looming monolith in my living room. Got an Academy and am satisfied for the foreseeable future. There wasn't a huge difference going from the Quartet to the Academy. I think it's an almost unbeatable setup, due to the 360 degree timbre match of one of the best speakers ever made. With Fortes as rears, 3-4 feet of room behind your listening position is optimal, to get some sense of acoustic space behind you. I toe the Fortes in maybe 45 degrees and still get a nice side/rear spaciousness. It's also best if your listening seat back is at least a couple of inches lower than the top of the speaker. I recall somebody here has raised their rear Fortes a few inches on bases. My bottom line is that if you have the floor space, go for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merkin Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 CS, I have traveled your route almost exactly. Had Forte mains, with 2.2s as center and surrounds. Got two more Fortes for rears. Then had a Quartet center for a while, but a 50-lb horizontal speaker on top of my 55" old-style rear-projection TV was a looming monolith in my living room. Got an Academy and am satisfied for the foreseeable future. There wasn't a huge difference going from the Quartet to the Academy. I think it an almost unbeatable setup, due to the 360 degree timbre match of one of the best speakers ever made. With Fortes as rears, 3-4 feet of room behind your listening position is optimal, to get some sense of acoustic space behind you. I toe the Fortes in maybe 45 degrees and still get a nice side/rear spaciousness. It's also best if your listening seating back is at least a couple of inches lower than the top of the speaker. I recall somebody here has raised their rear Fortes a few inches on bases. My bottom line is that if you have the floor space, go for it. CS I agree with RichardP on almost all of it. I thought there was a pretty big difference between the academy and a forte II for center. I do understand space limitations though, I had none and you already have the academy. I made some risers for my surround forte's to bring the mid range up so that it is centered with the top of my sofa. That way I don't have to set up straight and proper to get the whole surround effect while I watch movies. On the movies like "Master and Commander" the surrounds definitely make a difference for the acoustic space. You can hear the cannon balls whizzing over you and debris landing behind you. The wind through the ropes and sails. You may lose some base by elevating the forte but I think that it is made up by the subwoofer. I'm using a Sunfire 400x7 for mine so I set the crossover at 60hz. The forte II's can go pretty deep and if you have enough power to push them they can really preform. I feel they are one of the best full range speakers that you can use because their ability to go low with crisp clear highs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbon summit Posted January 29, 2009 Author Share Posted January 29, 2009 Owning a pair of Forte IIs I'm sold on them being great speakers. I was thinking about adding the Forte IIs as surrounds this morning and I think the question I was really trying to ask when I asked are they worth it is since I have 2 Sub 10s and have all the other speakers set to small with the cross set at 80 will I see that dramatic improvement in sound quality and surround sound effect from two full sized speakers like the Forte II compared to a smaller speaker? By setting it to small and cutting the cross at 80 I'm taking away what I hear so many comment on with the Forte II - the bass. Are the mids in the Forte II going to sound that much better than the KG 2.5s that I have when you consider that we are talking about surround duties not the front job? I'm sure there will be some difference of course but enough to spend over $500 between gas and the speakers and 12 hours of my life on the road. When I get home and hook them up will the difference make me forget the boring drive and spent cash because it blows me away with the new sound or will it sound better, fuller, but not all that much different in the end? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbon summit Posted January 29, 2009 Author Share Posted January 29, 2009 With Fortes as rears, 3-4 feet of room behind your listening position is optimal, to get some sense of acoustic space behind you. I toe the Fortes in maybe 45 degrees and still get a nice side/rear spaciousness. It's also best if your listening seating back is at least a couple of inches lower than the top of the speaker. I recall somebody here has raised their rear Fortes a few inches on bases. My bottom line is that if you have the floor space, go for it. I really don't have 3-4 feet directly behind my listening position. I set mine back about a foot (maybe less) and out away from the corner of the couch maybe two feet. I used this site as a guide: http://www.dolby.com/consumer/home_entertainment/roomlayout2.html I've got a fireplace in my living room that limits my ability to make too many changes and have the room look right and be functional so I might be stuck with the way I have it now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted January 29, 2009 Moderators Share Posted January 29, 2009 I know what you are saying about space for the rears, and I have no space for side speakers. This was the only place I had for rear speakers, so there they are, better than just 3 across the front. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbon summit Posted January 29, 2009 Author Share Posted January 29, 2009 Wow dtel!! Thats pretty cool idea but with windows etc I couldn't pull that off either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbon summit Posted January 29, 2009 Author Share Posted January 29, 2009 I've been less than productive at work today as I google and read speaker placement pages and it seems that as long as I stay with 5.1 I'm fine with the speakers where I have them now regardless of what they are. 6.1 and 7.1 of course adds the rear and side aspect and it sounds like even with a blu ray player I'm not missing much as not many movies are using a true 7.1 yet. I'm sure they will soon but I guess I'm fine with my 5.2 setup I have. What does this have to do with this thread? I was worried about not having space to the rear of my setup and I guess now I'm comfotable that the way I have it is fine so I'm back to the original thought of are Forte IIs worth upgrading to in the surround location? I'll have to measuer my couch and see how high up the speakers need to be. Which makes me ask does just the tweeter need to be at ear level or does the mid horn need to he that high too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbon summit Posted January 29, 2009 Author Share Posted January 29, 2009 When I said "... I'm not missing much as not many movies are using a true 7.1 yet." I mean in true movie content. I'm sure having 6 or 7 speakers instead of 5 is better in some ways. I'm not looking to open Pandora's box on what setup is best or if matrixed sound is good or bad. But for my situation a 6. or 7. setup won't work so maybe saying that is just internal dialog to make me feel better and accepting the limits of my room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted January 29, 2009 Moderators Share Posted January 29, 2009 I think you would be fine with the layout in that pic, i would try to keep the two horns somewhere around your ear level. For most movies and concerts it's not like a constant sound from the rears and not nearly as important as the front 3. To me the rears are more ambient sound to give the surround feel, direct placement is not nearly as important. IMO My rears are not where they should be, and my center is 6' up, and except for the mains all are turned sideways, none of this is recommended ! But it sound very good,this arrangement don't meet spec's but my ears probably don't either ! Do the best you can and let it rip ! [Y] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardP Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 I thought of more pros and cons to create further confusion: [] One argument I made with myself when going to Forte rears was whether I lost any significant floor space. If your 2.5s are on stands, then they have almost the same footprint and volume as Fortes would. If they are on shelves, that's another story. If you want to take a purist approach, than exact timbre matching using exactly the same speakers is the best possible HT arrangement. The 2.5s are a two-way speaker, and thus will have some audible differences from the Forte. Whether the difference is audible to you, or more importantly, limits your enjoyment of your HT experiences, is difficult to predict. It's just one of those things you have to compare directly to decide. I have a lot of multichannel DVD-As and SACDs, and most of them have lots of rear channel sound, so full range matching is more important to me than it may be for you. In favor of the 2.5s, I also believe that many bookshelf speakers, especially substantial ones like the 2.5s, can create very spatially-realistic and sonically-accurate rear sound fields typical of movie soundtracks and concert DVDs. Most movies I see don't have a huge amount of big deep rear sounds that would challenge bookshelf speakers, and as you stated you have two subs already. To me, the rear ambience soundstage is as much an issue of sound localization as it is frequency range. An advantage of 2.5s is your ability to put them on stands exactly howhigh and where you want them in order to get the best rear sound image. I think I hadmine on 28" stands. I would like to see pics of anyone's Fortes on higher bases. I hope this helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merkin Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Richard Here are a couple of pictures of my Forte II's on stands that I made. Not much of a cabinet maker. Should have run the grain the other way to match the speaker maybe instead of the base. But they work well and are fairly stable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merkin Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 The driver's side surround unless your from England or Australia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted January 30, 2009 Moderators Share Posted January 30, 2009 Here is a stand I made for the front two mains, I did this to have it reach over the sub they are 36" high. Made from 6" PVC pipe and wood cut to look like rings, they are very stable the way they are put together but not heavy. The speaker is turned upside down to put the horns closer to the right height, the grills are just turned to make it look like the speakers are upright, you cant see it but there is a layer of cloth between the speaker and the stand. The walls are textured, it just shows up like that in the pic, and the floors are new and we wanted bigger moulding and i have not done it yet ! The dust is all mine, my area to clean and I suck at it. [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardP Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Man, both the risers and the Fortes on stands are impressive pieces of engineering/carpentry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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