wsu99999 Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 I was searching on Audiogon and came across power cables that, in my mind, are absolutely insanely overpriced. I have heard of people spending a bunch of money on speaker cables, rca's, balanced interconnects, hdmi cables even and I think that's a "little" over the top, but these power cables cost well over 1200 bucks! Maybe I'm really missing something, but how can these even make a difference? As long as your cable has a thick enough gauge to provide ample power to your device, cable "A" that costs 1200 bucks and cable "b" that costs 40, should end up with the same amount of power to said device and the device should operate the same way, correct? Even if we are worried about "spikes in voltage" or "dirty power", wouldn't someone be better suited to get a power conditioner for a couple hundred bucks as opposed to dishing out a few grand on cable? Just to be clear, even if you tell me that 1k cable is the next best thing since sliced bread, I'm not going out and buying it, this is more so for my curiosity and understanding. I also realize that there are people with 500k systems and maybe they just don't have anything else to spend money on. I mean hey, the 1k cable does look cool! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 an often over looked aspect of the features of a high end power line cable is the sheilding. Often it is difficult to isolate power cables from signal cables in audio racks. The use of sheilded power line cables makes this less of an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falcon20x Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Inventor will shime in at one point or the other on this one but until he does... I was over his house yesterday with another forum member and our spouses to run a few test on power cables. (Iventor and I had done the test before but we wanted someone else to hear it) Shielded cables do make a difference, the main difference was in the video with much better color and richer. We also heard differences in the sound from the stock power cord to the shielded one, even our spouses did. We did the test with the a power cord for the sub as well but I could not hear any differences on this one. Is it worth to spend a $1000 on a power cord ? I do not think so but if you can build it yourself you will not be desappointed. However, you are correct I suspect that the improvement is not going be worth thousand of dollars if you already have a power conditioner which is doing a lot of the clean up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InVeNtOr Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 i think i can finally answer this question with proof. i have redone every power cable in my set up. i did this because they are all tied together and run very close to all the other cables. i also believe a upgraded power cable will do little to no good with out a good power conditioner. you need to use them in pairs. whats the good of cleaning power and then sending it out in unshielded cables where rmi/emi can get right back in????? the upgraded power cable is only as good as the shield. i have a very very good thick shield on mine and that i believe makes the difference. if you have all your cable tied together and you use an upgraded power cable for your tv, you will see a big difference. it should clear up a tiny bit of noise, but mostly give you richer colors. you can see detail you wouldn't notice before. i even shielded my cat6 cables and i was under the impression that shouldn't make a difference, but it did. it makes my cable channels look almost like blu-ray. some channels are better than others, but you get the point. as far as Oyaide connectors go, it is true that the different connectors effect sound. i have the 037 and 079 connectors. you can hear the difference. wire and shield are the same. the blue (037) will be clear but the highs get a little obnoxious. the amber (079) is also very clear but has a much smoother sound. i prefer the amber. we ran that test with 5 people in the room and no one know which cable i was using. i also swapped in the original power cord, that cord made everything sound "mushy," lower in tone, and not near the highs. to me i wouldn't pay more than $50-$75 for a power cable. it will make a difference but i think the higher end your equipement goes, the more these cables will show it. by no means am i saying a $250 avr with a new power cord will sound the same as a $5000, but in both cases it will improve your sound. i think the $5000 will sound more amazing after the upgrade than the $250. to sum up, power cordes will be a good upgrade if you can find them at a good price. if you have all or most of your cables running close together, then you will see a greater difference. the cables you get from monoprice (hdmi, rca, etc.) will be just fine by themselves. the only cables that need an upgrade are the iec power cables from equipement. the tv cable would be the first one i would upgrade. if you are curious who was in the room, it was me, Falcon 20x + wife, and Wescott+ wife. all opinions came out to be the same. i was thinking of making and selling power cables for people here but i am not sure if i want to invest in something like that. i guess if i get a few people sending pm's, i may think about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wsu99999 Posted February 2, 2009 Author Share Posted February 2, 2009 I understand money is realitive and if you make 1M+, you can easily afford a cable for a grand. I guess the point to my post wasn't whether a 1k cable makes a difference, but rather, my point was that if you spent 100 bucks on a high quality product that is shielded and such, should provide the same effect as the 1k cable. On the same front, I guess it goes to the diminishing returns idea. Sure you can get a CD player for 15k with tube dac's etc, but do you think you could tell that much difference from a high end CDP that runs 800? I completely understand that there is a benefit of running clean cable, but like I said, if one cable has the same electronic properties (ie Gauge, proper shielding, etc) from one that is a "designer cable" and one that is just a good cable, there shouldn't be much of a difference right? Maybe I'm way off! It seems everyone so far is all for the expensive cables - maybe I'm missing out on somethiing! Also, if I am right, and a good quality cable is all that is needed, which cables do you recomend? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 "Also, if I am right, and a good quality cable is all that is needed, which cables do you recomend?" Monster makes a series of power cables. I dont think the powerline 100 is sheilded ($50) nor the powerline 200 is shielded ($100). I know that the powerline 300 ($149) and powerline 400 (attached to upper end conditioners) is sheilded. I have seen used powerline 300's on ebay for $50. For the DIY crowd, a lot of fourms toot some DIY sheilded cables using medical grade power cords. Many medical grade power cords have mylar insulation which is mistaken to be a shield, but it's not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Every power cord will sound a little different, rarely a lot different. There is often a small difference between just a 16 ga. and 14 ga. standard computer power cord. Shielded cords sometimes sound better to me -- I've used ESP shielded power cords on my last two tube preamps, and think they sound a little clearer, smoother, and more lively. However, that "different" sound doesn't always wear well. Some add tizz that takes tme to recognize and realize you don't enjoy your system as much. The same ESP cord that sounded so good on my preamps also subtracted some bass heft, and the trade-off is only worth it in some systems. It definitely subtracted bass from my tube amps, and now I use a different brand. I tried a bunch of power cords sent to me for trial by The Cable co., who I disappointed by returning every one of them. One kind, Elrod, had great bass, but radiated LOADS of EMI, which I didn't need with my amplifiers and was picked up as hum by my K-horn crossovers. If it ain't broke, be careful about trying to fix it -- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falcon20x Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 For the DIY crowd, a lot of fourms toot some DIY sheilded cables using medical grade power cords. Many medical grade power cords have mylar insulation which is mistaken to be a shield, but it's not. or you can use this link As I said I would not go out and spend the money on a monster, audioquest or any other brand of power cord, but building it with the right material for a minimal cost ( > $ 15) that I would do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falcon20x Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Every power cord will sound a little different, rarely a lot different. There is often a small difference between just a 16 ga. and 14 ga. standard computer power cord. Shielded cords sometimes sound better to me -- I've used ESP shielded power cords on my last two tube preamps, and think they sound a little clearer, smoother, and more lively. I should have mentionned one thing, the RF 7 sounded great with or without the power cord upgrade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wsu99999 Posted February 2, 2009 Author Share Posted February 2, 2009 So Falcon, Your telling me that if I take a decent power cable (cheap one that is the right gauge), all I need to do is wrap that material around it and it will shield it? Do you wrap it like "electrical tape" or do you wrap it length wise and use adhesive? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falcon20x Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 It is like a sleeve, you slide it over the cable. It works like the snakeskin which you can use to dress up your cable. Take the standard cord, or buy an unfinished one if you want to get a bigger gage, slide the shield over then dress it up with black snakeskin, add the plugs on each end. Not that hard to do and farily cheap for a good result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Me Loves Khorns Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 So, do you put that braid stuff around your power cables, or could you use it on Interconnects also? Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 You guys trying to shield what is coming INTO the cord, or what is coming OUT of the cord? This is a trick question? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 So, do you put that braid stuff around your power cables, or could you use it on Interconnects also? Paul sheilded power cables have 1 to 3 layers of this stuff. (the sheild needs to be grounded) most signal cables are already sheilded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USNRET Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 In my line of work we try very hard to keep the 270 volt dc noise out of everything else by shielding the everything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InVeNtOr Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 okay this is how you can do it..... method 1, (cheap, easy, quick) take your stock power cord (if it's 12awg) - cut the plug end off - slide the new shield over the cable. take the shield as high as you can go over the iec connector - slide snake skin over the new power cord with the shield (for dress up) - reconnect the wires to a new plug (any 15a will do) - connect the shield to the ground pin (you may have to cut the shield down to be able to fit it into the connector terminal). thats it, done. maybe not the best way to do it, but effective. method 2, (more money, little better results) purchase 12awg wire (use 12awg for amps, receivers, etc. use 14awg or 16awg for tv's, dvd, ps2, etc) - purchase a matching pair of iec and plug connectors - purchase at least a 3/8" shield (flat is cheaper and expands just like snake skin). purchase snake skin. follow the above insturctions for building it. you can go to here for the same info. there is 4 different types of builds but you will mainly use "flavor 3" bottom line is the power cords will help. each set up will be different as far as how well it helps you. how much are they worth? well to me, not more than $75 with "swanky" connectors. around $50 would be a no brainer. since it was brought up, the money value is subjective. i think most people on this forum would agree that they wouldn't think $50-$75 is too much to get the most out of your system. people that make 1M+ most likely don't spend time on this forum "looking for deals." if i can get around 10 people who want these power cords i will build them. but i won't do it unless i can get near that number because i have to buy large rolls of this stuff. you just can't buy 10' at a time. if you are interested i will make them. i will charge $45 for a basic connector power cable, $50 for 037 or 046 power cable, and $55 for a 079 power cable. once all 10 are signed up i will order the stuff and make them. i will build them at any length up to 10'. i don't know what to do about shipping so i guess we can split it and i will cover paypal. send me an email at noltingdavid@att.net if interested. to me it was worth it. it's not that expencive, just a little time consuming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
htxpert Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 WSU, Check you PM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falcon20x Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 okay this is how you can do it..... method 1, (cheap, easy, quick) take your stock power cord (if it's 12awg) - cut the plug end off - slide the new shield over the cable. take the shield as high as you can go over the iec connector - slide snake skin over the new power cord with the shield (for dress up) - reconnect the wires to a new plug (any 15a will do) - connect the shield to the ground pin (you may have to cut the shield down to be able to fit it into the connector terminal). thats it, done. maybe not the best way to do it, but effective. method 2, (more money, little better results) purchase 12awg wire (use 12awg for amps, receivers, etc. use 14awg or 16awg for tv's, dvd, ps2, etc) - purchase a matching pair of iec and plug connectors - purchase at least a 3/8" shield (flat is cheaper and expands just like snake skin). purchase snake skin. follow the above insturctions for building it. you can go to here for the same info. there is 4 different types of builds but you will mainly use "flavor 3" bottom line is the power cords will help. each set up will be different as far as how well it helps you. how much are they worth? well to me, not more than $75 with "swanky" connectors. around $50 would be a no brainer. since it was brought up, the money value is subjective. i think most people on this forum would agree that they wouldn't think $50-$75 is too much to get the most out of your system. people that make 1M+ most likely don't spend time on this forum "looking for deals." if i can get around 10 people who want these power cords i will build them. but i won't do it unless i can get near that number because i have to buy large rolls of this stuff. you just can't buy 10' at a time. if you are interested i will make them. i will charge $45 for a basic connector power cable, $50 for 037 power cable, and $55 for a 079 power cable. once all 10 are signed up i will order the stuff and make them. i will build them at any length up to 10'. i don't know what to do about shipping so i guess we can split it and i will cover paypal. send me an email at noltingdavid@att.net if interested. to me it was worth it. it's not that expencive, just a little time consuming. Guys, I don't think he is trying to convince any one about the benefit of those shielded cords, you can think what you want, but if you have been thinking about buying one of the brand name power cord David is giving you a better price for a better quality cord. His cords are well made with attention and care to the details. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InVeNtOr Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 man i was looking at audiogon, the power cable section, you have got to have some money if you are going to spend $600 on a power cord. my amp didn't cost that much! i must be one of the "broke people!" anyways here is a pic of a power cord that i would be making. this one is the blue (037), the amber (079) looks the same but is amber in color. both made the same way with the same materials. i use tinned 12awg wire so you will never have a corosion problem. with pure copper, (untinned) you will get some corrosion which over time will add to resistence, which may lead to a different sound. easy to fix, cut the ends off and reterminate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
consistent Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 Hi there, Here is a good test: take your existing power cables and move them or shield them (copper) as far away as possible from your interconnects and speaker cables. When doing so with power cables do not have them running parallel to each other, if you have to cross them at any stage try a right angle crossing when ever you can. Lift your speaker cables and interconnects off the ground, particularly if you have fabric/material that is able to generate voltage from friction (carpet zap). Sit back an see if you notice any difference when you listen to the same things again. May be best if you first turn everything off but if you can handle it, leave everything on. If you notice a difference you have discovered what new cables or better power cables do. Generally you make way for these new toys and try a different set-up which often means you change the original set-up of all your old cables. If you don't notice a difference then the probabilty that anything added will make a difference (other than a power conditioner) is slim! Big money saving too! Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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