Hifi jim Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Uh huh, yeah, there's been tons and tons and tons of AB/X experimenting and testing done in the past Don. That's nothing new at all. And all have shown human hearing and more importantly, recall to be the culprit in any test. I'll repeat myself at the risk of not being heard... it always seems to me that the cable skeptics are the ones who haven't conducted any cable demo in their own system. No one has yet to say, I've tried and compared brand x,y, and z in my system and heard absolutely no difference... that would at least add some merit to the argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Richard Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Read any review of most any cable and the experiences will read very similar to my own. So what came first? The chicken or the egg?[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hifi jim Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 I'll repeat myself at the risk of not being heard... it always seems to me that the cable skeptics are the ones who haven't conducted any cable demo in their own system. No one has yet to say, I've tried and compared brand x,y, and z in my system and heard absolutely no difference... that would at least add some merit to the argument. Read it again Don. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hifi jim Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Read any review of most any cable and the experiences will read very similar to my own. So what came first? The chicken or the egg? Are you suggesting that all reviewers are on the take, that's usually the next argument from conspiracy theorists? How about all of the consumers who have written about their own experiences online? Are all of these people nuts? Are they all hearing differences perceived rather than realized? Do ALL of these people make that same mistake when describing the differences between amplifiers or speakers. Where is the line drawn?... and who draws it? I think it's all rather simple, try demoing cables for yourself, and in your own system... but I've said that before. [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Richard Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 And if a difference is percieved, who is to say which is better? It comes down to preference, and a person might prefer one over another simply because of cost, or because the color matches the room decor. Note that these choices aren't dependent on a listening evaluation, but on non-audible factors. I won't swap something out on a sound system if it cannot be demonstrated that an audible improvement will result. Oh no! After all of this cable bashing I have done I looked around and found... an expensive set of RCA interconnects in the storage room. These were some of the first high-end cables produced, made in the 1970s, by Kimber I believe. They were given to me by a friend so I tried them and found no difference between them and the cheap interconnect cables that came with new equipment. I wound up using them for composite video cables since they were made from coaxial cable and had high quality gold connectors. Since they survived the test of time and the cheap cables didn't it can be argued that they had value, but not from any audible improvement. Heck, there was not even an audible difference, much less an improvement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hifi jim Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 And if a difference is percieved, who is to say which is better? You. Whatever your preference nobody can say you're right or wrong, it is after all, your system.It comes down to preference, and a person might prefer one over another simply because of cost, or because the color matches the room decor. Saying that visual aid influences sound perceived when comparing cables is a poor argument, this could be applied to every other component including speakers. Cost, or rather value is a good argument for any component depending on the listeners budget.These were some of the first high-end cables produced, made in the 1970s, by Kimber I believe. They were given to me by a friend so I tried them and found no difference between them and the cheap interconnect cables that came with new equipment. Glad to hear that you're beyond math and science and have actually tried it first hand. My suggestion would be to try a newer cable from this century, lots of improvements in cable technology in the last 10 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Richard Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 My suggestion would be to try a newer cable from this century, lots of improvements in cable technology in the last 10 years. How can this be? Copper is still Cu, silver is still Ag, and there have been no polymers invented in the last 40 years that are suitable for insulation. Cable solutions suitable for >400 MHz have been around at least 70 years. Litz wire has been around forever, it seems. There have certainly been marketing efforts in the last 10 years concentrated on cables. However, marketing hype is neither technology or science Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hifi jim Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 My suggestion would be to try a newer cable from this century, lots of improvements in cable technology in the last 10 years. How can this be? Copper is still Cu, silver is still Ag, and there have been no polymers invented in the last 40 years that are suitable for insulation. Cable solutions suitable for >400 MHz have been around at least 70 years. Litz wire has been around forever, it seems. There have certainly been marketing efforts in the last 10 years concentrated on cables. However, marketing hype is neither technology or science Okay, now we're back to science and further removed from listening and experimenting. THIS DOES IT! PM your address Don and I will send you a pair of Nordost Blue Heavens .6 meter RCAs. Yours to try and evaluate for the simple fee of posting your findings here. Good, bad or indifferent the result may be, my concern is having you try for yourself. This could be fun, when you're done, maybe another forum member may be curious and they could try and post their results too. Oh! I will need these back at some point, so nobody get too cozy with them. [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hifi jim Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 LOL You can try after Don. [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacksonbart Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Can you legally mail a turd in the US postage system? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedball Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Oh my gosh, can I play too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hifi jim Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Oh my gosh, can I play too? Sure, Don and Mark have their dibs, you're next! I'd like to get as many of the regular members here to participate. Everyone tries them for a couple weeks or a month, and then mails 'em on to the next member and they post their findings here. Sounds like fun to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuzzzer Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 I guess I can be grateful that I'm using HDMI cables... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hifi jim Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 I guess I can be grateful that I'm using HDMI cables... I've compared different HDMI cables for video, but never audio... I'm currently using the cheapest HDMI cables I could find (Daytons from Parts Express) and I'm quite happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedball Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Yes! Contact me whenever for whatever. Pat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Have you ever gone to any of these audio festivals? The "resolution" if you can even call it that is appalling at best...yet you'll still see people parading around about the quality of their cable when the entire brass section is missing from the piece because their speakers suck. Many of the demonstrations done at audio shows are in hotel rooms or conference rooms where system setup is far from perfect. It wouldn't be unusual to hear a lousy presentation of a genuinely good product, and if you read any of the audio mags coverage of shows they constantly complain about the acoustics of the rooms. And yet there is no shortage of people parading around about how awesome the cables sounded...get where I'm going here? Like Don says, noboday has shown any reliable positive in an ABX (or at least not that I know of). Again, blind tests have proven inconclusive with amplifiers and even speakers. I've had no problems hearing differences between amplifiers and especially speakers in blind ABX listening. Tests that show people couldn't identify a difference are just that...the people being tested couldn't identify a difference. Jim's experiences (if he's not full of crap) are the closest I've ever read actually, but I still have my sincere doubts. Plenty of experiences and reviews online. Read any review of most any cable and the experiences will read very similar to my own. Show me one reviewer that shares comments on a cable without knowing what it is he/she is listening to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Saying that visual aid influences sound perceived when comparing cables is a poor argument, this could be applied to every other component including speakers. Yet there is no shortage of studies that have proven that seeing the speaker affects ones perception of its sound quality. I've seen numerous studies showing that the subjective evaluation of the sound of a speaker changed dramatically between knowing what was being listend to and not knowing. I've also seen studies where the same speaker, but with different aesthetics was claimed to sound different. The list goes on... Am I saying that it doesn't sound different? Not in the least....but it's the result of the listener changing his/her frame of reference. By expecting something to sound differently, it will sound different. To be honest, I find this kind of thing extremely interesting and I use it to my advantage when mixing live shows. For instance, I have no problem getting a musician to think I've turned up their monitor when in fact I've actually turned it down. What's happening is the musician is changing his focus onto the instrument he wants to hear and can suddenly hear it when he focuses on it. A difference of even 10dB quieter slips by sounding louder!....and that is something incredibly easy to hear in a blind ABX....yet the power of suggestion is even yet more powerful. What then is one to think of something that can be readily identified in a blind comparions? [^o)] I think it's a whole heck of a lot cheaper/easier to just be in the right mood for the music I'm listening too... My suggestion would be to try a newer cable from this century, lots of improvements in cable technology in the last 10 years. Ummm....care to share some specific examples? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Audio festivals? Who said anything about going to an audio festival? Did I say go to an audio festival to hear resolution? Exactly my point....you'll find the exact same comments about cables as you will from those claiming you must have higher resolution.... Why do the rooms always gotta get the blaim? I think it's the cables making it sound bad... [6] Heck, we already know you can't spend more on the room and yield more bang for the buck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hifi jim Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Show me one reviewer that shares comments on a cable without knowing what it is he/she is listening to. Show me one reviewer that shares comments on an amplifier, or cd player or speaker without knowing what it is he/she is listening to. Get where I'm going? [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hifi jim Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 My suggestion would be to try a newer cable from this century, lots of improvements in cable technology in the last 10 years. Ummm....care to share some specific examples? The Nordost Blue Heaven is a modern design that I've offered out for trial. Try and keep up Doc. [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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