Mallette Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 Gents and ladies, I need some help. I've moved this post from 2 channel where I got a couple of good leads, but want to get this crowd's take on it. Dr. George Mims, recently retired cappellemiester of St. Martins Church in Houston, has asked me to come over to his house and help him master his new audio system. I actually don't know what all he has, other than the speakers remain his beloved Heresies. I'll report on that after the fact. When he visited my room and heard his system on my 'horns he was blown away at the bass. After all, he IS an organist and used to hearing it ALL. Of course, he's also been used to making allowances and assuming it isn't practical to hear that on a recording. He knows better now, and though he did not mention it, I'd like to be prepared to recommend a sub. Most know I am about price/performance. Give me some recommendations for a sub at a good price point the provides a seamless acoustic crossover to the Heresies and good down to 20hz or so. So far, the Hsu Mark 2 VTS 3, the SVS Ultra PB-13, and a Klipsch RW-12D have been recommended. Price/performance is what I am looking for. The Hsu seems to lead in that regard on paper. I rather doubt that George runs his system louder than "realistic," so performance over 100db isn't really important. This link George will take you to the post where I discovered George and the mind-boggling music program he built. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 Those are 3 very good subs. I would think that the SVS and HSU would outperform tthat particular Klipsch sub in the very lowest notes however. I believe the SVS has a single band PEQ and has a user tunable cabinet, 2 very nice features. Of the 3, I think I'd lean toward the Ultra. I think they even have a 30 day, no questions asked, return policy but check with them to be sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted April 24, 2009 Author Share Posted April 24, 2009 Those are 3 very good subs. I would think that the SVS and HSU would outperform tthat particular Klipsch sub in the very lowest notes however. I believe the SVS has a single band PEQ and has a user tunable cabinet, 2 very nice features. Of the 3, I think I'd lean toward the Ultra. I think they even have a 30 day, no questions asked, return policy but check with them to be sure. Thanks. The SVS is almost 3 times the price of the Hsu. Is it 3 times as good? Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 [Thanks. The SVS is almost 3 times the price of the Hsu. Is it 3 times as good? Dave No. If he goes the HSU route, have him spend the extra 80 dollars or so and get the VTF-3 MK3. The larger cabinet, ports and bigger amp will let it hit those deep tones with less strain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted April 24, 2009 Author Share Posted April 24, 2009 So far, the Hsu has it... I almost bought one a few years ago and then opted for a Pinnacle. Wish I'd bought the Hsu. Pinnacle isn't bad, but gets mushy on delicate things unless I adjust very, very carefully. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAS Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 Ouch, maybe not exactly 3 times the sub but it could be close. The Ultra is definitively the digger in that group. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted April 25, 2009 Author Share Posted April 25, 2009 Ouch, maybe not exactly 3 times the sub but it could be close. The Ultra is definitively the digger in that group. Around 1500 according to SVS sales. Little doubt it's a good thing, but given the specs are about the same I'll suggest to George it's perhaps a Strad against an Amati. Both very fine and rare, one a bit more fine a rare. If cost is no object, another couple of percent can be worth it... Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 He'll really like the VTF-3 MK3. HSU's are very musical subs. Start by crossing it over at 70 Hz and experiment from there. If you're ever in the Beaumont area and want to listen to organ music on a big IB, give me a holler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted April 25, 2009 Author Share Posted April 25, 2009 Perhaps it's obvious...but what is a big IB? I noted your proximity. You apparently don't get into the 2 channel Forum very much as this is the first I've seen of you. OTOH, I live in that forum and don't get out much... I have listenings at my Seabrook home from time to time, and just had one recently. Beaumont is quicker to get to and from from Seabrook than the west side of Houston... We should get together, indeed. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 IB is an Infinite Baffle sub. It's basically 4 18" drivers built into a wall in my living room wall. The drivers are configured so that you only get the front wave of sound, and the back wave is sent off into the attic. There's no coloration from the box because there is no subwoofer box. It's arguably the most accurate method of low frequency reproduction. I've got usable output below 10 Hz so organ music shouldn't be an issue. . I'll check out the 2 channel forum from time to time, but I'm really into HT and subs. I'm building a little 2 channel system but it will be extremely modest compared to the majority of rigs out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted April 25, 2009 Author Share Posted April 25, 2009 I'll be there a little later... [] You have my interest. I defintely have some organ recordings I'd like to hear on such a system. Perhaps we can work out a visit. I suspect you have no problem with rodents in your attic... Dave PS - I am a hybrid. I am very much into phase retreival and surround audio have been using various means of doing so from 2 channel since 1972. During the Vietnam war my cohorts and I had a 4 channel system in our hootch. OTOH, I hang out in 2 channel mainly because of the emphasis on music. I don't watch much TV and while I love great movies, IMHO there is only about one per year I that feeds my soul. Mozart alone does that repeatedly even without new material... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWL Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 It's arguably the most accurate method of low frequency reproduction.Is an IB primarily used for HT? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWL Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 I hang out in 2 channel mainly because of the emphasis on music. I don't watch much TV and while I love great movies, IMHO there is only about one per year I that feeds my soul. Mozart alone does that repeatedly even without new material... This is also what I have become. [] Sometimes Mozart......sometimes Metallica. I just dig it all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted April 26, 2009 Author Share Posted April 26, 2009 It's arguably the most accurate method of low frequency reproduction. Is an IB primarily used for HT? First one I ever heard of was in the home of Dick Burwen, post process competitor to DBX in the 70's. He had three poured concrete horns in his basement with 24" Hartley woofers. Whole system was power by 25kilowatts of Phase Linear 700's (OUCH, on both counts!). Like you, I punctuate my Mozart with palate cleansing of Field Hippies or Muddy Waters. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 It's arguably the most accurate method of low frequency reproduction. Is an IB primarily used for HT? In my house it is[]. Actually it's like any good subwoofer. Good for music or HT. It basically just disappears and sounds like my mains have an unlimited bottom end. If you closed your eyes and listened to music, you couldn't tell where the bass was coming from. I went through Infinity, Klipsch and SVS subs prior to building my IB. I didn't know it at the time, but each sub enclosure added a littlle to the bass I was listening to. When I tuned the IB in, it was like WOW. All you hear is what's on the recording and nothing else. It doesn't overemphasize any particular frequency so all you have to tweak is your room to get the peaks out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 Perhaps we can work out a visit. Just PM me for my phone number. You've got to promise not to hate on my SS equipment though[] I suspect you have no problem with rodents in your attic... Not that I'm aware of. They may be alergic to subsonic frequencies. Gee, an afternoon of listening to music instead of working in the yard...................I guess i could do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted April 26, 2009 Author Share Posted April 26, 2009 >You've got to promise not to hate on my SS equipment though Ahhh... You've been checking up on me. Not a problem. Whilst I've ditched SS in my main systems for digital and tubes, I am not an absolutist. I prefer a single malt whiskey, but I've been known to drink fine sour mash on occasion. Actually, several occasions. Dave PS - I want to take some pix and get some details. In a few years I plan to build my retirement house and IB in the construction seems like a no brainer. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 I'd be honored to have someone with an "experienced" ear come over and enjoy/critique my system. Bear in mind that it is purpose built for HT as opposed to 2 channel. If you have a decent CD player you might bring that along. Music duties are normally relegated to my OPPO dvd player. Not really what the purist might use. Feel free to snoop and pick the IB apart. It'll be fun. I think sour mash would be an excellent compromise as I'm normally a martini guy but have sampled some good sour mash in the past and wouldn't mind revisiting it (unless you were speaking metaforically of course). Carl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted April 26, 2009 Author Share Posted April 26, 2009 >Music duties are normally relegated to my OPPO dvd player. Depends on what you mean by "purist." I am against any piece of equipment that in any way I can detect alters what the engneer recorded within the abilities of the art as we know it to prevent it. The above OPPO is as good as any CD player I've ever heard at any price. Actually, I can toss in here that my parting with SS had nothing to do with accuracy. Fine SS is scrupulously, to a fault accurate. It's really a very, very fine thing that over time, digital and tubes are just a hair less fatigueing and present their accuracy in a little softer, warmer light. If both disappeared, I'd go back to SS and be quite happy. MUSIC is my hobby, not equipment...much as I really do like fine equipment. I am likely to bring my Korg MR-1 DSF recorder (SACD recording format) with some stuff on it...especially the Virgil Fox Crystal Clear direct to disc LP I recorded on it that a number of golden ears were unable to A/B from the disc itself. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 Sounds like a plan. Just let me know when. Weekends are best.............except next weekend. It's my 10, soon to be 11 year old daughter's birthday weekend. Any other time should be fine. Standing invite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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