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Sub Woofer for a Highyly Tuned Ear and Pipe Organ Person


Mallette

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Gents and ladies, I need some help. I've moved this post from 2 channel where I got a couple of good leads, but want to get this crowd's take on it.

Dr. George Mims, recently retired cappellemiester of St. Martins Church in Houston, has asked me to come over to his house and help him master his new audio system. I actually don't know what all he has, other than the speakers remain his beloved Heresies. I'll report on that after the fact.

When he visited my room and heard his system on my 'horns he was blown away at the bass. After all, he IS an organist and used to hearing it ALL. Of course, he's also been used to making allowances and assuming it isn't practical to hear that on a recording.

He knows better now, and though he did not mention it, I'd like to be prepared to recommend a sub. Most know I am about price/performance.

Give me some recommendations for a sub at a good price point the provides a seamless acoustic crossover to the Heresies and good down to 20hz or so.

So far, the Hsu Mark 2 VTS 3, the SVS Ultra PB-13, and a Klipsch RW-12D have been recommended. Price/performance is what I am looking for. The Hsu seems to lead in that regard on paper. I rather doubt that George runs his system louder than "realistic," so performance over 100db isn't really important.

This link George will take you to the post where I discovered George and the mind-boggling music program he built.

Dave

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Those are 3 very good subs. I would think that the SVS and HSU would outperform tthat particular Klipsch sub in the very lowest notes however. I believe the SVS has a single band PEQ and has a user tunable cabinet, 2 very nice features. Of the 3, I think I'd lean toward the Ultra. I think they even have a 30 day, no questions asked, return policy but check with them to be sure.

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Those are 3 very good subs. I would think that the SVS and HSU would outperform tthat particular Klipsch sub in the very lowest notes however. I believe the SVS has a single band PEQ and has a user tunable cabinet, 2 very nice features. Of the 3, I think I'd lean toward the Ultra. I think they even have a 30 day, no questions asked, return policy but check with them to be sure.

Thanks. The SVS is almost 3 times the price of the Hsu. Is it 3 times as good?

Dave

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[Thanks. The SVS is almost 3 times the price of the Hsu. Is it 3 times as good?

Dave

No.

If he goes the HSU route, have him spend the extra 80 dollars or so and get the VTF-3 MK3. The larger cabinet, ports and bigger amp will let it hit those deep tones with less strain.

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Ouch, maybe not exactly 3 times the sub but it could be close. The Ultra is definitively the digger in that group.

Around 1500 according to SVS sales. Little doubt it's a good thing, but given the specs are about the same I'll suggest to George it's perhaps a Strad against an Amati. Both very fine and rare, one a bit more fine a rare.

If cost is no object, another couple of percent can be worth it...

Dave

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Perhaps it's obvious...but what is a big IB?

I noted your proximity. You apparently don't get into the 2 channel Forum very much as this is the first I've seen of you. OTOH, I live in that forum and don't get out much...

I have listenings at my Seabrook home from time to time, and just had one recently. Beaumont is quicker to get to and from from Seabrook than the west side of Houston...

We should get together, indeed.

Dave

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IB is an Infinite Baffle sub. It's basically 4 18" drivers built into a wall in my living room wall. The drivers are configured so that you only get the front wave of sound, and the back wave is sent off into the attic. There's no coloration from the box because there is no subwoofer box. It's arguably the most accurate method of low frequency reproduction. I've got usable output below 10 Hz so organ music shouldn't be an issue. .

I'll check out the 2 channel forum from time to time, but I'm really into HT and subs. I'm building a little 2 channel system but it will be extremely modest compared to the majority of rigs out there.

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I'll be there a little later... [:P]

You have my interest. I defintely have some organ recordings I'd like to hear on such a system.

Perhaps we can work out a visit.

I suspect you have no problem with rodents in your attic...

Dave

PS - I am a hybrid. I am very much into phase retreival and surround audio have been using various means of doing so from 2 channel since 1972. During the Vietnam war my cohorts and I had a 4 channel system in our hootch. OTOH, I hang out in 2 channel mainly because of the emphasis on music. I don't watch much TV and while I love great movies, IMHO there is only about one per year I that feeds my soul. Mozart alone does that repeatedly even without new material...

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I hang out in 2 channel mainly because of the emphasis on music. I don't watch much TV and while I love great movies, IMHO there is only about one per year I that feeds my soul. Mozart alone does that repeatedly even without new material...

This is also what I have become. [:D]

Sometimes Mozart......sometimes Metallica. I just dig it all.

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It's arguably the most accurate method of low frequency reproduction.

Is an IB primarily used for HT?

First one I ever heard of was in the home of Dick Burwen, post process competitor to DBX in the 70's. He had three poured concrete horns in his basement with 24" Hartley woofers. Whole system was power by 25kilowatts of Phase Linear 700's (OUCH, on both counts!).

Like you, I punctuate my Mozart with palate cleansing of Field Hippies or Muddy Waters.

Dave

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It's arguably the most accurate method of low frequency reproduction.

Is an IB primarily used for HT?

In my house it is[;)]. Actually it's like any good subwoofer. Good for music or HT. It basically just disappears and sounds like my mains have an unlimited bottom end. If you closed your eyes and listened to music, you couldn't tell where the bass was coming from. I went through Infinity, Klipsch and SVS subs prior to building my IB. I didn't know it at the time, but each sub enclosure added a littlle to the bass I was listening to. When I tuned the IB in, it was like WOW. All you hear is what's on the recording and nothing else. It doesn't overemphasize any particular frequency so all you have to tweak is your room to get the peaks out.

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Perhaps we can work out a visit.

Just PM me for my phone number. You've got to promise not to hate on my SS equipment though[:P]

I suspect you have no problem with rodents in your attic...

Not that I'm aware of. They may be alergic to subsonic frequencies.

Gee, an afternoon of listening to music instead of working in the yard...................I guess i could do that.

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>You've got to promise not to hate on my SS equipment thoughStick out tongue

Ahhh... You've been checking up on me.

Not a problem. Whilst I've ditched SS in my main systems for digital and tubes, I am not an absolutist. I prefer a single malt whiskey, but I've been known to drink fine sour mash on occasion. Actually, several occasions.

Dave

PS - I want to take some pix and get some details. In a few years I plan to build my retirement house and IB in the construction seems like a no brainer.

Dave

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I'd be honored to have someone with an "experienced" ear come over and enjoy/critique my system. Bear in mind that it is purpose built for HT as opposed to 2 channel. If you have a decent CD player you might bring that along. Music duties are normally relegated to my OPPO dvd player. Not really what the purist might use. Feel free to snoop and pick the IB apart. It'll be fun. I think sour mash would be an excellent compromise as I'm normally a martini guy but have sampled some good sour mash in the past and wouldn't mind revisiting it (unless you were speaking metaforically of course).

Carl

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>Music duties are normally relegated to my OPPO dvd player.

Depends on what you mean by "purist." I am against any piece of equipment that in any way I can detect alters what the engneer recorded within the abilities of the art as we know it to prevent it. The above OPPO is as good as any CD player I've ever heard at any price. Actually, I can toss in here that my parting with SS had nothing to do with accuracy. Fine SS is scrupulously, to a fault accurate. It's really a very, very fine thing that over time, digital and tubes are just a hair less fatigueing and present their accuracy in a little softer, warmer light. If both disappeared, I'd go back to SS and be quite happy. MUSIC is my hobby, not equipment...much as I really do like fine equipment.

I am likely to bring my Korg MR-1 DSF recorder (SACD recording format) with some stuff on it...especially the Virgil Fox Crystal Clear direct to disc LP I recorded on it that a number of golden ears were unable to A/B from the disc itself.

Dave

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