smcilwaine287 Posted May 29, 2009 Share Posted May 29, 2009 I have a question about my yamaha 663 receiver. There options to put my Klipsch rf-62's on either "small" or "large". I was understanding that because I have the rw-12d subwoofer I should set them to "small", however a friend of mine told me I should have just purchased bookshelfs. Also, there is the option to either have the bass going out through the sub, the fronts, or both. I thought I should do sub, but does anybody else suggest otherwise? Can someone please let me know which of these options I should be using, and why. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesV Posted May 29, 2009 Share Posted May 29, 2009 Can someone please let me know which of these options I should be using, and why. Thank you. Whichever sounds the best to you. Everyone can suggest one brand over another or one setting over the other but you are the one that has to live with it. You should go thru all of your receivers settings and sit and listen, write down what you like about each and see if you can come up with one or a combination of them as your final settings. Also set each and leave it for a few days to see how over time it sounds. James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smcilwaine287 Posted May 29, 2009 Author Share Posted May 29, 2009 Well i "heard" that if you set your speakers to large and sub out that you could run into "cancellation" problems where all the speakers pushing out bass would cancel each other out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Youthman Posted May 29, 2009 Moderators Share Posted May 29, 2009 James is correct. There are those that set speakers with 12" woofers to small and let the sub handle the LFE and there are others (like myself) that prefer setting my RF-83's to large. There is no right or wrong. Again, it's what sounds best to you. I could be wrong but I'm having trouble following the logic of what you've heard about cancellation. Most agree that two subs helps to even out the bass response within a room. I would think the same would be true with using fronts and sub to produce LFE. I could be wrong, just trying to logically understand it. As far as you should have gotten bookshelves, I would disagree. Bookshelves are good if you need to fit a speaker within a shelf, entertainment center etc. IMO, you are going to have to pay money for stands for them which often puts you close to the cost of a floorstanding speaker. To me, floorstanding speakers offfer more dynamics than an equivalent bookshelf speaker. Don't get me wrong, there are some great bookshelf speakers. I have the RB-35's and they sound very nice but for fronts, I still would go with floorstanding when possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InVeNtOr Posted May 30, 2009 Share Posted May 30, 2009 just being an echo. HT is 100% about what the LISTENER hears, not their buddy, friend, forum member....etc. the best thing to do is listen to a particular set up, change it, listen again, see which one you like. it's really quite simple. every room is going to be different, different construction, different furniture, different decor, you get the point. i personally like my rf-7's set to small, but i have the crossover for them set to 60hz. (i also have the eq set to +1db at 60hz)i then have my sub's 60hz setting db level also at+1. that way it's almost like i have 3 subs in my room all hitting at the same db level at 60hz. sounds crazy, but works just fine. this was a fun experiment, i had my side surrounds on some make shift stands at 42". i listened to a HT demo, and then put the speakers on 48" stands, and again listened to the same HT demo. i actually heard a difference. to confirm it, i had a buddy come over, didn't tell him anything, and was curious if he heard a difference. i was happy to find out, he too heard a difference. after a couple of demos we found out having the rear speakers at 42" and the sides at 48" gave up the best surround sound. i initally was going to have all the surrounds equal. so listen, change, listen, change, listen, change, repeat as much as necessary to get the right sound to you. thats my 2cents Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smcilwaine287 Posted May 30, 2009 Author Share Posted May 30, 2009 well maybe I am not understanding. What is the difference between even setting them to large or small. If they are still receiving and producing frequencies as low as 60 hz than what would be the difference between the small and large setting. I definately hear the difference, just trying to figure out why that difference exists Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuzzzer Posted May 30, 2009 Share Posted May 30, 2009 http://forum.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/34579/128214.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted May 30, 2009 Share Posted May 30, 2009 Wuzzzer provided a good article. Thanks, W. This subject, keeping everything below 70 Hz or even higher, makes sense when you realize the change in program material since earlier days. Movies and some CD's put a tremendous amount of bass in below 70 Hz. The high level is needed (?) because our ears are not very sensitive at those freqs. Also, I suspect that the mix engineers know that many smaller speakers don't do a good job down there. On movie disks the LFE channel on the recording (note recording) is there so that more and more bass can be used. It is better for the main speakers not to be burdened with this. One reason is that it can cause modulation distortion and second that it can really challenge the power rating and mechanical limits of an ordinary bass driver.The HT amp can be challenged too. When the amp is set to small, freqs below 70 Hz or so are sent to the sub and equally importantly, not to the bass drivers in the main units. The solution is a separate sub which has its own amp and is optimized for 70 Hz down to however low the design and designer will let it go. there are limiting circuits in most subs. - - - - Your friend's comments have some merit. Some people would prefer a smaller speaker for mains if they are not handling bass,just based on cost. However, I think you made a good choice. Floorstanders can be moved around and placed optimally for performance. Generally this means gettng them toed-in and in an equilateral triangle to your listening position. That might be tough with bookshelf units and you might have use stands to get the treble units up to ear level (elevation). Wm McD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted May 30, 2009 Share Posted May 30, 2009 unless a HT loudspeaker really can dig to the deepest frequencies, it should be set to SMALL, allowing the sub to take over for those lower notes. For instances, I have LaScalas set to SMALL because they roll off pretty heavily around 70 Hz. Conversely, my Cornwall surrounds are fully capable of the lowest notes so are set to LARGE. On your Yamaha the LFE out should be set to SUB only. The only time you'd use the BOTH setting would be with somewhat capable sub and pretty large mains speakers. You would ONLY use this if the mains were also set to LARGE. My first setup had Cornwalls up front but only a small KSW12 sub, so outputting the LFE (blowing-stuff-up-channel) to the sub and both Cornwalls was a good choice. I honestly see this used very seldom these days. You should ALL speakers set to SMALL, LFE to SUB only. Crossover is usually 10-20 HZ higher than your smallest speaker can reproduce or 80 Hz for a starting point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DU73 Posted May 30, 2009 Share Posted May 30, 2009 just being an echo. HT is 100% about what the LISTENER hears, not their buddy, friend, forum member....etc. the best thing to do is listen to a particular set up, change it, listen again, see which one you like. it's really quite simple. every room is going to be different, different construction, different furniture, different decor, you get the point. what inventor said [Y] i have changed my system config many times and i have got it to a point where i am extremely happy - that is of course thanks to all those forum members whom has helped me along the way. i have my crossover set at 40hz, everything set to small, running a rotel 5 channel power amp with yamaha avr as pre. front stage 2xRF35, RC7 and RW12 with RS35 for surrounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesV Posted May 30, 2009 Share Posted May 30, 2009 well maybe I am not understanding. What is the difference between even setting them to large or small. If they are still receiving and producing frequencies as low as 60 hz than what would be the difference between the small and large setting. What are all your current settings? I definately hear the difference, just trying to figure out why that difference exists If set to small then whatever you have it set to on your receiver is the cut-off. If set to large then everything goes to your speakers, no matter what the receiver is set to. As mentioned to all depends on person preference on what frequency to set it to and setting them to large or small. Just know the limits of your speakers as not to damage them in the process. That is only a small portion of this as the room plays another angle into the whole equation. Some are able to have dedicated room as others have to make do with "living rooms". In the end it only matters to how it sounds to your ears and that's it. James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smcilwaine287 Posted May 30, 2009 Author Share Posted May 30, 2009 Regardless of what my frequency is set at, if the speakers are set to large, they will not be cut off at any such frequency? I have my fronts and center set to small. Bass set to both (still kind of like sub only too, off and on, sometimes both is too much bass). Rears set to small Frequency cut off at 80hz. thanks guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesV Posted May 30, 2009 Share Posted May 30, 2009 Regardless of what my frequency is set at, if the speakers are set to large, they will not be cut off at any such frequency? Correct... James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smcilwaine287 Posted May 30, 2009 Author Share Posted May 30, 2009 If you don't mind me asking how'd you come to this? This is well known? I didn't see it in the manual. Didn't realize this, definately something to consider. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InVeNtOr Posted May 30, 2009 Share Posted May 30, 2009 setting the speakers to large and small are in the receiver manual. the crossover frequences probably orginated from THX. they are the ones who suggest setting everything to 80hz. this is a good starting point. i did that but felt i was "missing something." so then the next step was to set the mains to 70hz, sounded better, but not "awesome." changed to 60hz, and now it sounded really good. tuned in the sub a little, changed it's physical position, adjusted the volume, db levels, and BAM! sounded like i like it. somone on here set their center channel to 100hz, they said it sounded clearer to them. it's all about what your ears can pick up. just keep toying with it, change only a few settings at once or else you might end up with something you really don't like. it takes lots of time to tune it in right. btw, did you at least use an SPL meter to set all the db levels? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smcilwaine287 Posted May 30, 2009 Author Share Posted May 30, 2009 I was having issues with my left speaker sounding "louder", so I used an spl meter and it made it worse, so apparently my right speaker comes out louder, but it sounds better to me. May be because my left speaker is more in a corner, right speaker is more open. Also, still no answer on the cut off of big to small. thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InVeNtOr Posted May 30, 2009 Share Posted May 30, 2009 so using the spl meter made it worse? you did go through the set up screen and set all the speakers to the same db level? a lot of people who don't have dedicated theather rooms have issues with one speaker in a corner and one in the open, including me. if you use the spl meter correctly and go through the set up menu, it will balance everything out. try this, set everything to small, and set the crossover to 80hz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smcilwaine287 Posted May 31, 2009 Author Share Posted May 31, 2009 Yes, I bought the SPL meter specifically for this. I started all speakers at 0 db's, and had the volume set to 0. Adjusted everything to 75, and the end result was a less than enjoyable sound. Well I am playing Jason Mraz now, and I hear alot more coming from the fronts when they're set to large. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InVeNtOr Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 if you are listening to 2ch music, it should sound like it's comming from your center channel. it should almost fool you, and who ever else is listening with you. i don't understand having everything at 0db and volume at 0. but what you want to do is turn the spl meter to 85 and get all the speakers to be set at that level. don't worry about the receiver volume, if you are using the test tones from the receiver they should be at a pre determined level. for me it doesn't matter if the volume is at 0 or 99, the test tone is at the same volume. quick question, is the spl meter facing up? is the actual listening port facing up? is it on a tri pod in the center position? is all the fans and excess noise off? be careful about how hard you breath while tring to tune it all in, it will effect it. sounds funny, but i have had issues not having the spl meter set up correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 The manuals seem 'dumbed down' to me. Why don't they call it 'full range' and 'crossed over'? That would confuse most people. Yes, LARGE means that speaker gets full range signals, everything on the DVD for that channel goes to that speaker with no frequencies filtered out. Your sub will be playing the LFE (.1) soundtrack (what I call the 'blowing stuff up' channel), PLUS any of the LF content filtered from any speaker labeled SMALL. No sound is lost, merely rerouted. I think you're getting the hang of the lingo. Just read about a bazillion Forum threads. That's how I learned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.