scott0527 Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 So given that, of the tables you have, I have had the Marantz 6100. It was ok, but I would easily prefer an AR XA or Thorens 160 over it any day in regards to performance. I don't think the S shpaed tonearm on the Marantz is very good. Something about straight tonearms seem to perform better on these types of tables. Again, it is ok, but I wouldn't spend much time or money with it. Don't know anything about your other 3 tables. someday I whish to upgrade to one of those but I came across these for what I believe was a good price, and It would give me a chance to check a couple different brands, giving that the other two are direct driven I probably wont put to much into them. Since my technics is all ready useable, If I can get a descent cart, plus belt for the marantz I will probably compare the two of them one plus with the marantz it all ready has a dust cover which is a plus over my technics. So if anyone wants to buy the pioneer or jvc let me know they are for sale just name your price, plus the cost of shipping let me know. thanks nick When you say "upgrade" what do you mean in terms of dollars. I have a very nice AR XB (same as an XA for the most part) that I would sell for $100.00 TD160's can be had for $150 to $200. I named those tables because they they are pretty good and yet very inexpensive. But then again, inexpensive to one person might be costly to another! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 It has been years since I actively used a turntable, though most of my favorite albums of all times have been records. I bought Sony’s new CD player when a new version came out with two times sampling and I have not looked back since. I can not abide the wow and flutter, the pops and clicks of records. Records are like the old nursery rhythm: “There once was a girl, who had a little curl, right in the middle of her forehead. When she was good; she was very, very good. When she was bad; she was horrid!” With a new belt, a clean record, a musical cartridge, improved cartridge wires and a rock solid platform, even a modestly priced turntable can create a magically musical experience unrivaled by all but the latest technology; with the possible exception of the tubed CD/DVD players. However, most of the time those conditions do not exist – the sound was often horrid - the wear and tear on the financially challenged audiophile is relentless. Although it is decades since I shopped for a turntable, the primary shopping concern was the accuracy of the platter speed – which is not too difficult to accomplish. I opted for a belt driven Technics SL because belt drives have less rumble than direct drives. I also had, and loved an old suspended platform Garard Miracord. If I remember correctly, it couldn’t take the wonderful Grado cartridges, so I traded it for the Technics. The Technics is probably worth $50 bucks now, but it had a little red light that shone on the side of the platter to show speed. This allowed you to adjust the speed for accuracy, reducing wow and flutter. Even more important than the turntable model was the cleanliness of the record, the cleanliness and newness of the needle and the cartridge used. The pops and clicks came from miniscule dirt and static. The music quality came from the needle and the cartridge. I loved the Grado cartridge, compared to the few Shure and Stanton models I heard. It is for sale. Rega models have been tearing up the reviews lately. In fact, it seems to be the only budget turntable that Stereophile likes: http://stereophile.com/budgetcomponents/index.html I heard one and it seems to be quite nice, with sleek modern styling. http://stereophile.com/turntables/708rega/ http://stereophile.com/turntables/507rega/ http://stereophile.com/turntables/1204rega/ http://stereophile.com/turntables/184rega/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted June 11, 2009 Author Share Posted June 11, 2009 It has been years since I actively used a turntable, though most of my favorite albums of all times have been records. I bought Sony’s new CD player when a new version came out with two times sampling and I have not looked back since. I can not abide the wow and flutter, the pops and clicks of records. Records are like the old nursery rhythm: “There once was a girl, who had a little curl, right in the middle of her forehead. When she was good; she was very, very good. When she was bad; she was horrid!” With a new belt, a clean record, a musical cartridge, improved cartridge wires and a rock solid platform, even a modestly priced turntable can create a magically musical experience unrivaled by all but the latest technology; with the possible exception of the tubed CD/DVD players. However, most of the time those conditions do not exist – the sound was often horrid - the wear and tear on the financially challenged audiophile is relentless. Although it is decades since I shopped for a turntable, the primary shopping concern was the accuracy of the platter speed – which is not too difficult to accomplish. I opted for a belt driven Technics SL because belt drives have less rumble than direct drives. I also had, and loved an old suspended platform Garard Miracord. If I remember correctly, it couldn’t take the wonderful Grado cartridges, so I traded it for the Technics. The Technics is probably worth $50 bucks now, but it had a little red light that shone on the side of the platter to show speed. This allowed you to adjust the speed for accuracy, reducing wow and flutter. Even more important than the turntable model was the cleanliness of the record, the cleanliness and newness of the needle and the cartridge used. The pops and clicks came from miniscule dirt and static. The music quality came from the needle and the cartridge. I loved the Grado cartridge, compared to the few Shure and Stanton models I heard. It is for sale. Rega models have been tearing up the reviews lately. In fact, it seems to be the only budget turntable that Stereophile likes: http://stereophile.com/budgetcomponents/index.html I heard one and it seems to be quite nice, with sleek modern styling. http://stereophile.com/turntables/708rega/ http://stereophile.com/turntables/507rega/ http://stereophile.com/turntables/1204rega/ http://stereophile.com/turntables/184rega/ I called one of the local shops they said they have a Garard I didn't ask which model but they only want 40.00 for it. I might go look at it this weekend does anyone know if it will take any good carts, tonearms. they seem pretty cheap on ebay are there any brands to look out for as in not to get. thanks nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artto Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 The drive system is not as important as the sound. Some very high end turntables are direct drive. Years ago, I had a belt drive turntable (a BIC, entry-level at best) and found the belt drive to be a nuisance. With direct drive, on a decent-quality turntable at least, you get solid speed control and simple, reliable, operation. Not true. Except for starting and stopping speed, all things being equal, anything a direct drive turntable can do, a belt drive turntable can do better, especially as it relates to music reproduction. EDIT: It is true however, that BIC turntable you speak of is a P.O.S. [+o(] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacksonbart Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 Its platter should be circular Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauln Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 It sounds like you may be new to the turntable and records thing. If so, here is my recommendation: 1] First and formost, you want to step in gently to see if you like it, see if you can stand the effort of changing the record every 20 minutes, see if you can stand cleaning the records; and you want to be very sure that you do not impart any damage to the records you may have begun to collect or already have aquired. 2] Those who know turntables know that there are a lot of things to know about matching the cartridge to the arm to the table. Then there are about a dozen micro-adjustments, various alignments, and other geometric aspects that need to be made to get everything to work like it should. In the old days just about everyone was skilled at these adjustments, but for those entering this now without experience it can be pretty overwhelming. What I would recommend is a two step process. Like many things, it is easier to really know what you want after you have gained some experience with one. Step one would be to get a bullet proof record player that would allow you to satisfy the primary issues - seeing if you like it, the cleaning ordeal, and something that has all the adjustments and cart to arm to table matching already machined into the design, and something that will not harm your records. This gets you right into the listening on day one without the preliminary engineering, adjustments, trial and error, and all the complex difficulty. The second step would be to evaluate yourself and the starter table after a while. You would be in a much better informed position to determine what your final table might be, and cartridge, etc. An excellent first turntable might be one of the old tangential tracking B&O series, they are very tough, the cart and arm are designed so that there are no adjustments or matching to be done except setting the stylus pressure. The carts are of extremely high quality and fidelity, and the tables are solid. They are relatively inexpensive on the used market, and they will not damage your records. You may decide to stick with the B&O, or; after getting educated and experienced your may go for one of the many fine regular design systems. My main turntable is a B&O 1900 I bought new in 1975. I have built a collection of 10 cartridges (takes 2 seconds to snap them in and out). The 1900 has never failed and I'm begining to think it may last forever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted June 14, 2009 Author Share Posted June 14, 2009 thanks for all replys and really good infor(jacksonbart I wouldn't know what to do without that info) even after reading some other post about just tone arms sounds like this turntable thing is a hobbie within a hobbie. I think I have an idea wear to start. so once again thanks for all the help and ideas. It sounds like you may be new to the turntable and records thing. If so, here is my recommendation: 1] First and formost, you want to step in gently to see if you like it, see if you can stand the effort of changing the record every 20 minutes, see if you can stand cleaning the records; and you want to be very sure that you do not impart any damage to the records you may have begun to collect or already have aquired. 2] Those who know turntables know that there are a lot of things to know about matching the cartridge to the arm to the table. Then there are about a dozen micro-adjustments, various alignments, and other geometric aspects that need to be made to get everything to work like it should. In the old days just about everyone was skilled at these adjustments, but for those entering this now without experience it can be pretty overwhelming. What I would recommend is a two step process. Like many things, it is easier to really know what you want after you have gained some experience with one. Step one would be to get a bullet proof record player that would allow you to satisfy the primary issues - seeing if you like it, the cleaning ordeal, and something that has all the adjustments and cart to arm to table matching already machined into the design, and something that will not harm your records. This gets you right into the listening on day one without the preliminary engineering, adjustments, trial and error, and all the complex difficulty. The second step would be to evaluate yourself and the starter table after a while. You would be in a much better informed position to determine what your final table might be, and cartridge, etc. An excellent first turntable might be one of the old tangential tracking B&O series, they are very tough, the cart and arm are designed so that there are no adjustments or matching to be done except setting the stylus pressure. The carts are of extremely high quality and fidelity, and the tables are solid. They are relatively inexpensive on the used market, and they will not damage your records. You may decide to stick with the B&O, or; after getting educated and experienced your may go for one of the many fine regular design systems. My main turntable is a B&O 1900 I bought new in 1975. I have built a collection of 10 cartridges (takes 2 seconds to snap them in and out). The 1900 has never failed and I'm begining to think it may last forever. Pauln all these things you talk about Is what I like about this hobbie the adjustmenst, engineering etc then finally setting back and enjoying. nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauln Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 The ease of use and convenience concerns have run off a lot of people, so it is refreshing and uplifting that there are still those who enjoy the technical and mechanical aspects of these things. It really all comes down to dragging a little rock across a piece of grooved plastic without harming the rock or the plastic, and you sound like an excellent candidate for learning how to enjoy doing that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bliss53 Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 I have listened to a lot of turntables and the best bang for the my buck has been my refurbished 1963 thorens td 124 with a rega tonearm. It competes with turntables well over $5,000 IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 the big round thingie should go round and round, preferably at a constant speed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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