derik Posted February 27, 2002 Share Posted February 27, 2002 If i get a cd changer, should i get one with an optical output? I don't really know much about them so if somebody could inform me, i would appriciate it. Are they a lot better than the regular rca's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted February 27, 2002 Share Posted February 27, 2002 Optical outputs will be good IF the optical transducers in the CD player and preamp are good. Digital RCA outputs often sound better than digital optical because of the conversion from electrical signals to light and back. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougdrake2 Posted February 27, 2002 Share Posted February 27, 2002 Seems most CD players have at least optical digital outputs, some also have electrical digital outputs (via RCA jacks). I'd make sure it has at least one of the two, just for flexibility. The use of the digital output (optical or electrical) will also determine where the digital-to-analog conversion takes place, of course. Using digital outputs means the DACs in your preamp/receiver will do the conversion. Analog outputs mean the CD player will do it. Which ones are better? Depends on your equipment. Doug ------------------ My System Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Garrison Posted February 27, 2002 Share Posted February 27, 2002 Most of the high end pundits have it that digital transmission interfaces go in basically this order, listed from poorer to better: TOSLINK (The typical optical output, generally uses plastic fibre cable, prone to high jitter) 75 Ohm COAX (SP/DIF, the Sony Phillips / Digital Interface Standard) implemented with RCA connectors (the typical electrical connection on most players and receivers, better jitter performance than TOSLINK but usually not a true 75 Ohm impedence) 75 Ohm COAX implemented with true 75 Ohm BNC connectors AES/EBU Balanced signal transmission cable (three signal pins, carrying positive, negative and ground) AT&T Optical (expensive, very high bandwidth, good jitter performance, very rare these days) I2S (inter-IC sound bus), used inside CD players to connect read mechanism to D/A sections, also implemented in some brands (Perpetual, Sonic Frontiers, old Audio Alchemy, others) as external link between boxes, separates data from clock signals, still quite rare but generally regarded as "best performing" of standard interfaces Proprietary brand-specific connections (such as those offered by Wadia, Theta and others) - difficult to compare head to head, don't know where to rank them. Keep in mind that in most normal systems, to most people, the differences that may be present between any of the above outputs will be minor, if audible. I'd be more concerned about the player's ergonomics, build quality, tracking ability, reputation, and the variety of disc types it can play than I would be with which output it had. Oh, and before someone (mdeneen? ) asks for data and references to back up the above ordered list, I have to admit that (a) I've never heard some of these connections, so this is all heresay, and ( it is based on largely unscientific reviews of a variety of transports by a variety of reviewers in uncontrolled environments following no set standards using randomly assembled collections of speakers and electronics writing for several different magazines with different editorial standards over a period of several years. ------------------ Music is art Audio is engineering Ray's Music System Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ne_surfer Posted February 27, 2002 Share Posted February 27, 2002 If you have an A/V receiver the signal processing is done digitally. You definitely want to feed the signal from your CD player into the receiver digitally, either digital optical or cable. Otherwise you would do extra D/A and A/D conversions. Since you enter the receiver digitally, there is no penalty in audio quality for the digital signal processing before the D/A conversion, which is nice to know when turning on ProLogic II, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenratboy Posted February 27, 2002 Share Posted February 27, 2002 Unless your spending tens of thousands on equiptment, I wouldn't worry about WHICH digital out you got. I have a $300 Sony receiver and a $250 CD changer, and I noticed a sound improvement using the optical out to mr receiver, better bass. Anyway, if the CD player DOESN"T have a digital out, DO NOT get it, as its probably wierd. Enjoy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted February 27, 2002 Share Posted February 27, 2002 Is John Warren making you nervous, Ray? Like Seb retorted to John, It's just Bullsh*t Forum John, no need for Data, or AE proof. KRB, You mean weird as in 'Cheap'? You'd be amazed what a quality Analog interconnect can do, but it all depends on the application. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougdrake2 Posted February 27, 2002 Share Posted February 27, 2002 quote: Originally posted by ne_surfer: If you have an A/V receiver the signal processing is done digitally. Good point, ne. Just to clarify (it's my middle name ), some processors (preamps/receivers) can be set to bypass digital processing for selected analog inputs in stereo mode. My Denon 3300 does that, so as to avoid the extra analog to digital conversion... Doug ------------------ My System Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenratboy Posted February 27, 2002 Share Posted February 27, 2002 Mike: I mean even Le Analougue CD player should have a digital output, if they think having a digital output will make the CD player sound worse, well, Le Snobbe! I have not seen a decent CD player (contemporary, last few years) that has not had a digital out on it. Even the Le Snobbe's realize that people might want to upgrade to the $15,000 D/A converter their company makes . I am also a geek and having stuff hooked up digitally is cool to me. The converters on my receiver are better that my CD players. I really noticed a difference, I seemed to gain better bass when the receiver did the conversion! I am in the NO EXPENSIVE SPEAKER CABLE school, and for me to say this is real. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted February 27, 2002 Share Posted February 27, 2002 So your more or less using the player as a transport with the reciever doing the conversion. Ah! Never mind me, I have a Pre/Power amp with no Digital inputs. In fact, I disabled the digital out on one of my players, didn't need it. But the two DVD units have Digital outs, one is Coax, and the other is both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenratboy Posted February 27, 2002 Share Posted February 27, 2002 Yes Mike. The CD changer is a $250 SOny 300-CD changer with no frills. I figure if my receiver ($300 Sony) can decode DD and DTS (which I have never experienced, CD's or computer as source) it will do a good job with 2-channel audio. Like I said, I noticed a bass improvement while using the receiver to decode my CD's (optical out.) The only reason I have a jukebox changer is that I don't want to F up my CD's, I get a CD, make 2 copys for the car/backup, turn them into 320 Kb/s. MP3's and then it goes into the changer. I have had the changer for 2 years and none of the CD's (ones origionally put in) have been out more than 3 times. Can you say no scratches, theft, or other damage/loss of the origional? Not a bad deal. Kenwood has a sweet 300 CD/DVD changer for $1500, has EVERYTHING and then some. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tabasco Posted March 3, 2002 Share Posted March 3, 2002 hi, By default, imho, CD changers like Sony's should be considered CD transporters and not high-end audio equipment. Their DAC is not good. I recently got myself a Denon DA-500. It was build somewhere in 1994 I think. It converts optical and rca in both ways. The differences are remarkable to say the least... compared to the cd-changers, the sounds are much softer and warmer. At the same listing level, the cd-changers make your ear bleed, while the da-500 gives you music instead. Be warned however, using 2 linked Sony cd-changers, you cannot use optical out, because only the master will be heard. Using the regular rca-connectors, I don't think you will be much better off than using optical-out. I have a question of my own : The DA-500 accepts optical-in and coax-in. The Sony CD-changer has optical-out and RCA-out. Because I'm not allowed to use optical-out while using 2 changers, I have to use RCA. Now - this may be a stupied question - but is there a cable that on the one side has a Red/White-connector and on the other side a single Black-coax connector ? Thanx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundog Posted March 3, 2002 Share Posted March 3, 2002 Devices to allow one to switch between three optical inputs are available from Parts Express and Radio Shack. ------------------ Soundog's HT Systems This message has been edited by soundog on 03-03-2002 at 05:07 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougdrake2 Posted March 4, 2002 Share Posted March 4, 2002 Radio Shack also makes an Analog/Digital A/V Signal Converter, part #15-1242, which will convert analog audio to digital audio (either optical (Toslink) or electrical (RCA)) and composite video to S-Link. It works in either direction and runs about $50. I am using one with great success between my VCR and my Denon receiver. Doug ------------------ My System Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tabasco Posted March 4, 2002 Share Posted March 4, 2002 Thanks for the tip ! Now, to get one is another story... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahhbee78 Posted March 5, 2002 Share Posted March 5, 2002 here's a question that's almost related... i have a 12 ft subwoofer cable that ended up being too short and instead of returing it, i kept it just incase i move any time soon. anyway, is there a huge fundemental difference in a subwoofer cable and a coax-digital cable? i am thinking about taking my optical cable from the DVD and using it for the CD player while going coax(subwoofer cable) out of the DVD into my denon 1601. will the sub-cable do the job? or are they too different? also, i currently have my CD player hooked up to a stand alone burner through the optical cable. is there a splitter for optical cable? thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Garrison Posted March 5, 2002 Share Posted March 5, 2002 ahhbee78, Unfortunately, this is one of those questions where you're not likely to get a clear concensus of opinion. Responses will probably range from "it will work perfectly well" to "it may transmit data and result in sound, but it will certainly not sound anywhere near as good as a 'proper' digital cable, particularly given the length of that run." From a purely technical perspective, the SP/DIF specification which defines the characteristics of a coax connection between a transport and an external D/A converter calls for a 75 ohm cable. I would be willing to bet just about anything that your subwoofer cable does NOT have an intrinsic impedence of 75 ohms. So, on paper at least, this is not going to be a "proper" data link. It might induce a lot of jitter due to impedence mismatching, which could affect the sound. HOWEVER... Whether there are ANY "true" 75 ohm cables marketed as digital interconnects is another question. A lot of them are not. True 75 ohm cables, particularly with RCA termination, are probably few and far between. And whether the impedence mismatch is going to matter a hoot when you're talking fairly short runs of cable (in the overall scheme of things, a 12 foot cable is pretty diminimous) is an open question. My personal WAG ( ) is that the cable will work fine between your DVD player and the 1601, but that if you listen very, very carefully and have highly revealing speakers you might find perceptable differences between the subwoofer cable and some other, more "proper" digital interconnect. I realize that might not help much, but there ya go... If you really want to nail this so that you don't spend a lot of time in a quandry regarding what you're hearing vs might be hearing, I'd suggest buying a really, really good digital cable from some company (or dealer) that offers a no questions asked money back deal, and see if you hear a difference. One I'd suggest trying is the Green Hornet interconnect, which you can get from Music Direct - http://www.amusicdirect.com/products/detail.asp?sku=ACCCGHDIG1M Ray ------------------ Music is art Audio is engineering Ray's Music System Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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