mobile homeless Posted March 2, 2002 Share Posted March 2, 2002 What a flurry of posting activity since I last checked in. Nothing like fine red wine and a motorhome to get your blood moving with the thoughts of USA! Ahhhh...great to be home! heh... mdeneen, as for the wine, even though you were half tongue in cheek, I do agree that once you taste very fine wine, it's hard to crack the bottle of subpar swill. On the other hand, there is something challenging and alluring about finding a great $8-$10 bottle of wine hidden within the selection of chaff. That is why I love the Australian reds as they are like fine wine on the cheap. Same for some of the Napa Valley selections such as a few of the Beringer less expensive Founders Estate offerings. But yes, there is nothing better than a really fine bottle. That is why I humbly suggest that you break out a nice bottle and get cracking on that aluminum or brass top plate to replace thy Dynaco Circuit Board Horror! Or order/take it to a local metal fabricator as listed below. NO CIRCUIT BOARDS ALLOWED in the new creation! Long live point to point! Btw, for you woodworker challenged types or for those that just dont have the nifty tools, here is a nice selection of very well done hardwood chassis with or without the brushed aluminum top plates. The prices are pretty reasonable. Take a look: http://www.welbornelabs.com/woodchassis.htm If you proceed to the bottom of the chassis page, you will see a reference for a hole punching facility where you can order an aluminum panel punched however you like it! Here is the contact info Ormond LLC 1505 Central Ave. South Kent, WA 98032 Ask for Dan (tel) 253-854-0796 (fax) 253-854-3803 (email) dana@ormondllc.com (web) www.ormondllc.com s> Just send them a diagram where you want the holes w/ diameter etc. This is just another source for you DIY fiends. kh ps Nice work on the rebuild unit, mdeneen. Thanks for the words, HornEd. Too bad all you loons are on the West Coast; couldnt GET any farther from here! This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 03-02-2002 at 11:17 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornEd Posted March 2, 2002 Share Posted March 2, 2002 As usual, kh, you have found a winner. What a pleasurable sight a pair of walnut based tube amps would make atop my pair of K-horns. It looks like my old tube building habits of the 50's & 60's is about to erupt anew. And it's not just these boxes... it's your posts and replies of which I am a longtime fan. You may not realize how much joy you have brought those of us who just sit and read. Of course, the wine country trio of mdeneen, fini, and Clipped & Shorn bring a breath of fresh air and two-channel adventures found nowhere else. All this because a WWII vet in Hope, AR, thought his customers were something special... and that spirit continues on this Forum... particularly in the two-channel section. It is no wonder that with this last walnut Academy I have just picked up my 24th Klipsch speaker... so, BobG et al, if you are reading this... keep up the Forum... and keep producing new Heritages! HornEd PS: kh, my most recent popular wine find of this year has been Delicato Shiraz 2000... a California wine from the Monterey Bay region. It took the gold and scored a 95 at the California State Fair and was named "Best of California"... and I buy it for about $6 a bottle or $8.50 for 1.5 liters. The Delicato Family Vineyards is a tract of land with 29 different micro-climates that was originally developed for viniculture by big corporations looking for a niche investment. They spent a lot of money, got frustrated, and the Delicato's came away with a bargain that is now translated as a decent wine for a decent price. It even travels well in a motorhome. Cheers! HE This message has been edited by HornEd on 03-02-2002 at 08:07 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted March 2, 2002 Share Posted March 2, 2002 I'll give you're wine rec a glance online. I would love to do some webwork for WINE! Most places have sites already, however, and the idea of doing a website for the new Mecklenburg County, NC Winery frightens me to no end. I liken it to sitting in a vat of whey with a pinwheel hat (except the whey has a more appealing bouquet). I posted a new mini-graphic above of two of the offerings chassis-wise. I am tempted to start a project myself... If only I had room for one more piece of valve-Art. kh Phono Linn LP-12 Vahalla / Linn Basic Plus / Sumiko Blue Point CD Player Rega Planet Preamp Cary Audio SLP-70 w/Phono Modified Amplifier Welborne Labs 2A3 Moondog Monoblocks Cable DIYCable Superlative / Twisted Cross Connect Speaker 1977 Klipsch Cornwall I w/Alnico & Type B Crossover system one online / alternate components / Asylum Listing f>s> This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 03-02-2002 at 11:30 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted March 2, 2002 Share Posted March 2, 2002 My Laurels come with the beautiful Welborne Labs Walnut chasis. My Dual CS-5000 is Walnut also. I am also considering having Jeff Korneff build a 76 preamp with the Welborne Labs Walnut chasis, and will be lightly staining the PH-1 phono stage to be a close match. These combined with my Dark Walnut Heresy's should be a pleasant sight to my eyes while listening to them. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornEd Posted March 2, 2002 Share Posted March 2, 2002 Stunning Mike! Both the quality of the turntable and the quality of the photo. Pardon my vintage based ignorance, but how do you get such a large file to be seen in the body of the reply? Some of us older fellows need a little boost to stay current... and I prefer higher detail in my photos than the 200k Klipsch limitation on the standard route. Thanks for your support doddering HornEd... well not ALL the time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted March 2, 2002 Share Posted March 2, 2002 Boy! I wish I still ran a CNC punch press. I could hammer out Tube amp cases all day long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edster00 Posted March 2, 2002 Share Posted March 2, 2002 HornEd, You put your photo on the web and then use the "Insert Image" icon, type in the url and viola! Your photo is shown instead of the link to it. BTW I have another photo coming your way in a few minutes. This message has been edited by edster00 on 03-02-2002 at 04:37 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clipped and Shorn Posted March 2, 2002 Author Share Posted March 2, 2002 Those Wellbourne wood frame chassis not only look real nice but the prices beat the chrome and copper customs. Has anyone built a circuit from scratch using one of those Wellbourne wooden frame chassis? Obviously the reason the Wellbourne chassis are less expensive is because what they are is a flat metal plate screwed to a wooden frame. This is much simpler to tool up for than an all metal chassis. In fact, it is so simple that almost anyone could do it with some fairly basic tools. If you can make a picture frame you can make one of these. And if you cannot, you could have your local frame shop do it for you. There is a bargain scrap yard business around our neighborhood here that has things like sheets of copper or aluminum. Wallah! {on closer reading of the previous post, I guess the fancy French spelling is Viola- fiddlesticks....} I do like these wooden chassis frames, even moreso knowing that I could make one myself for ten bucks. This practical reality, this very fact, then, influences how I preceive the aesthetic. It is not that I need to see wood grain on an "electronic tool" as much as the fact that doing it this way "beats" the system, a system which requires industrial metal forming machinery and a system which is only practical when mass production economics is in the equation. It is the DIY aesthetic. Many of these high-end amp companies, I'll bet, are actually glorified DIY operations put together by very talented individuals, not necessarily corporate entities. I think it would be fun and informative for me to build a coulple of SET monoblocks from scratch , starting with my own home-built <$10 ea. wood frame chassis. I would continue down this economical path by paring down the cost to the list of quality parts necessary to accomplish the goal. I imagine one could put together something decent for far under the $2500 that a souped up set of Moondogs go for these days, plus learning a bunch in the process. I am just dreaming here. Are good circuit schematics readily available? Are there economical parts that can be had for 80% less than the more expensive versions that only deliver a 10% "improvement" or less for that 80% increase, thus making a set of SET monoblocks come in dramatically under the $2500? Maybe it is even possible to put something together for much less than half that $2500 while still using the very best parts. Has anyone gone down this path? mdeneen? All I know is that when I see photos of the underside of these SET amps, I am reminded of those very simple transmitters we use to build (when I was in junior high school) that were fun and easy to fabricate because indeed they were so very simple. One more thing about the DIY equation that I have deduced from years of various DIY projects in other fields of endeavor is that usually for the price of hiring out a process (say, having the metal plate punched for you) one can obtain the necessary set of DIY tools for not much more. Then you have those tools for future projects. Even if the tools cost twice or three times as much, you are often ahead in the long run. I realize this concept is a big "duh", but I thought I would mention it anyway in this context. I also realize this approach is not for everyone, and sometimes it is easier and better all around to just buy the nice retail product and be grateful that some folks have gone to the trouble of putting their cool business together to suppy these things. In that case one should gladly prosper those who provide quality merchandise and/or quality service. Tweach Hizone -mitered and glued This message has been edited by Clipped and Shorn on 03-02-2002 at 04:12 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted March 2, 2002 Share Posted March 2, 2002 Clipped and Shorn Wheres Mdeneen hiding today ?? I thought you guy's would be working on your Amp ?? Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clipped and Shorn Posted March 2, 2002 Author Share Posted March 2, 2002 Craig, I just wrote a whole reply to you and accidently brushed something on this overly sensitive iMac keyboard and everything disappeared. Darn. I cannot seem to retrieve it. I hate that! It happens frequently. Maybe I should look into getting a different keyboard. The old one I had on the previous computer was much better. This one is boobytrapped! The short of it is the mdeneen is doing some fitting of the new circuit components to the old chassis, apparently a challenge in itself. The driver board will be mounted vertically, and there will be a new rack style face plate to hold better switches and balance the look of the much taller capacitors. The old cage will now be discarded (eBay?). In a week or so I will be up there again ready to start soldering the parts which are still arriving in the mail. -flicked and flacked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted March 2, 2002 Share Posted March 2, 2002 Hipped, you just hit upon a bit of the DIY aesthetic. Not only can you save much money, but you can ACTUALLY make a BETTER amp then most manufacturers, especially some of the larger companies that have to make tremendous compromises. All it takes is some time, research, a bit of practice, a few ducats, and some imagination. Of course, a good circuit is imperative, but you can always try and try again. Opting for the wood chassis approach is one of the best ways for the amp(s) to start life. You get to pick the type of wood and work with it which is half the fun. The top plate can be something unique as well, honed from copper, brass, or aluminum. The best thing about opting for this approach is you can make the amp on the metal plate while on the workbench obviously before you install in the wood chassis. In other words, this provides excellent access instead of working within the confines of a box. One of the main obstacles after the choice of circuit is designing a good layout that is both aesthetically pleasing AND (even more important) run in a way to use the least amount of wire, lowest component count, and done in such a way as to avoid sources of HUM and noise. Obviously this is an important stage. Don't skimp here. If starting out, one of the best sources is other builders as you can see what worked and what didn't. It's amazing how people will come out of the woodwork to help you here, especially if they know it's your first time. Hopefully, you will learn a lot from mdeneen and be up on 80% of the other first timers that learn through head scratching, bouts of depression, utter confusion, and burned fingers. Hell, and you haven't even chosen the parts yet!!!! The IRON is number 1 on the expense list and the better the iron, the better the amp! The transformers are the heart of a good tube amp.... Still, you will be able to pick parts you want and save money since you arent paying to run 4 color Stereophile ads! You might get the bug after the mdeneen affair. I still think you should ditch the board idea and go for total point to point. Enough prattle.... I have still not made an amp from absolute scratch either, and I feel it calling as well. kh This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 03-02-2002 at 05:49 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clipped and Shorn Posted March 2, 2002 Author Share Posted March 2, 2002 Here is an example of another approach: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1335886151 Pretty nice, but the guy must be doing this as a labor of love. -bewitched and bewildered Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted March 3, 2002 Share Posted March 3, 2002 I could have done without the Cobra "blue" bell caps and the American Flag.... That was indeed some serious labor. Almost too much labor for 12:05am on a Sunday morn. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted March 3, 2002 Share Posted March 3, 2002 Must match his Harley. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted March 3, 2002 Share Posted March 3, 2002 Although I see what you are saying and some do elect to put most of the connections on the top plate which actually ends up shortening the wire involved sometimes virtually elimating hookup wire, it ISNT particularly appealing. At least firms like Cardas offer 90 degree RCA for no strain on the cable. Still, I dont like my connections on the top plate either which is why you can go with the wooden base and also have all the connections, switching, and plug on the side or behind the chassis. One can easily drill holes for these connections and mount a sturdy plate (or other metal of your choice). This is what Welborne and many other companies do instead of opting for the top plate wired solution. IF you refer to the pic above, you will see the 2A3 and 300B monoblocks with the plates on the side. The 300B amp utilizes one plate with six screws while the 2A3 amp employes two smaller plates. One could drill a hole in the front for an attenuator and/or power toggle as well. Just trying to point out that you can have the wooden chassis without opting for all the connections on the top plate. I do have chrome chassis amps that I like as well. But there is something very alluring about beautiful hardwood combined with the warm glow of tubes. The amps you see below were completely handmade from scratch by my Quebec friend Jeff Lessard. Here you see the input and speaker posts on the top plate while the volume pot and IEC outlet are on the front and rear respectively. While he paid a hefty price for the transformers, he was able to hand craft and source the rest at a very reasonable cost ending up with an amp that providing sound akin to commercial makes in the 5K range at a fraction of that cost. HE told me that hand sanding and finishing the wood gave him as much pleasure as making the amp! kh This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 03-04-2002 at 12:21 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clipped and Shorn Posted March 4, 2002 Author Share Posted March 4, 2002 PS: I had not yet seen mh's post above while I was originally writing the post (below). After seeing mh's nice photos, I am reminded that in the very early days of radio, circuits were often built on top of a surface like that, with terminals and connections on the top plate or surface. Even the cotton wrapped copper wiring was on top! I loved that old stuff. In some way the amps pictured above evoke the very early days of radio circuits. The wood "signals" us to enjoy the visual beauty and nostalgia of this engaging technology. Here is what I had posted prior: Did you notice on this restoration (same as previously mentioned) eg. in the photo image choice which is bottom left of the six eBay photo image choices. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1335886151 that the restorer put a slice of walnut over the metal in the back where the power cord comes out, probably as a way of redefining the ins and outs of that back panel. This suggests the idea of a wooden frame being around the sides of an already metal frame or chassis. This, of course, makes the panels inconveniently thick, but would still give that aesthetic (which I do not always agree with anyway). My point was that the only thing really justifying that wooden frame aesthetic is the DIY "beating the system" aspect, not really any electronic practicality. That and the fact that wood in itself connotes the era of hand-made craftsmanship as any collector (or user) of antique hand tools will attest to. What has happened is that tube technology is kind of a quaint antique looking thing. Vacuum tubes and all the rest of the related components, color-coded rainbow polkadotted and candy cane striped underside electronic confections etc., are indeed 'beautiful', especially now that it is the "past technology", what McKluhan called looking in the rear view mirror, like why we (this culture) was (is) so obsessed with cowboys etc. The fact that the vacuum tube happens to have also redeemed itself sonically in such a big way in recent years (but remember we are still a relatively small percentage fringe group in the big picture) makes us want to feature it as a work of art. {Some of the most beautiful mellow sounds are made on the vintage Selmer Mark VI tenor saxophone, now in limited supply and commanding sometimes 5-6K dollars, if you can even get one. Serious players have learned that one way to kill the magic of the sound is to have the thing replated, so when you see a Mark VI in person you had no idea how such a tarnished and worn looking instrument could be behind such beautiful sounds. This thought just popped into my head, not sure of its actual relevance here. Is Willie still using that guitar with the hole worn in it?} Oftentimes the technology of yesteryear appears to us as having a contemporary kind of beauty that the socalled "beauty"of the bygone era no longer has {IMO}, it is why the old "turn of the century" steel-cut engravings of science and technology look more contemporary to us now than the same era Victorian steel-cut engravings of the then "artistic" content. The "artistic" stuff is hopelessly dated and irrelevant, the science stuff looks to us now like "art". Tubes indeed are beautiful now (to me they always were, but I was considered a weirdo in the 50s for thinking that) , and because they still today perform a "useful" function, we figure why not feature them in artistic settings in the home (the wooden frame chassis etc.). mdeneen mentioned to me that there are people who collect tubes like someone collects stamps or art, eg. they do not need them for any use particularly. This is effecting the prices of good NOS tubes because the collectors want mint boxes as well. When you think about it, a vacuum tube is like a beautiful science fiction alien castle built inside a bottle. fini's idea of wine bottle tubes is not that far off. With mdeneen's help I bet we could actually build some kind of basic anode or triode and put it together with "ship in the bottle" secret techniques and a vacuum pump ala Tom Edison. Hey, how about a line of energy inefficient wine bottle light bulbs and/or Christmas tree lights. Now were talking. Any marketing wizards around? Next: "Why data is warmer with an all tube computer and why I just put in a bid for a 10K acre building site in Montana." -corked and snorkelled This message has been edited by Clipped and Shorn on 03-04-2002 at 03:32 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clipped and Shorn Posted March 13, 2002 Author Share Posted March 13, 2002 Just when you thought this thread was withering away and getting filed under "Architecture" instead of "Two Channel" my Dynakit Mod has made some interesting progress. Since I was having so much fun with the ole soldering Iron the maestro said, "hey I have some dials lying around, why not install some of these here meters, it will look really cool and give you something to watch while you are tweaking behind those vinyl treasures....." Needles to Hay, we got carried Away, and This doesn't look like Kansas anymore....do it? Then Honkety Hank woke up in bed, and scratched his head, and ate his gruel, kissed his Mom and went to school, just like any other little boy..... -Totoed and Bozoed ------------------ Cornwalls currently upgrading to all tube components Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clipped and Shorn Posted March 13, 2002 Author Share Posted March 13, 2002 I am just learning how to copy images directly from dreams to this forum, so bare with me. You may notice that some components from the dreamworld, being made of more ethereal matter (I forget what they call that stuff) tends to fade into the astral plane in the process of transferring (those tubes are not made with glass, but with some ghost like psuedomatter- what do you call that stuff....?). By the way, how do you attach an image so that it appears in the body of the message rather than under the photo icon link. I am writing this in my sleep, and raiding the refrigerator at the same time, ...is why I have been mysteriously gaining weight without my knowledge and waking up with wire strippings, psychic solder, and peanut shells appearing mysteriously on the comforter in the morning. -Pinto Colvig and Harold Peary ------------------ Cornwalls currently upgrading to all tube components Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted March 13, 2002 Share Posted March 13, 2002 OK T & B(alias Totoed and Bozoed), Are you going to tell us what all the dials do? I can't tell anything from the photo. Klipsch out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted March 13, 2002 Share Posted March 13, 2002 If this is actually the amp you and mdeneen have wrought from the lowly ST-70 pitted chassis, then I am shocked indeed! The ST-70 is surely NO MORE in every way, shape, and form! Quite a departure from everything being told to me over this entire thread. Horror, the damn thing actually LOOKS BEAUTIFUL! What's with the fine wood chassis? Heh... Not only that, but the tube choice is a far cry from the rather perfunctory offerings of thy ST-70! Once again, is THIS actually your old amp? If so, I still cant believe it, almost to the point of saying there is NO way this is your old amp given the gear on top, front to back! If by some twisted leap of faith this IS your amp, then you owe mdeneen your next born. If not, trade mdeneen your EL-34 rust bucket and see if you can walk out with this beast! Obviously, the real question is, how does it sound? Time for a posting of the circuit and the schematic. kh This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 03-13-2002 at 08:46 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.