Rudy81 Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 What we are leaving out here is the issue of 'pride'. I went through that when I first set up my system. I set my Khorns and center LaS to large just because, darn it, this is a LARGE full range speaker. After much research and then first hand experience, I learned that allowing a speaker to do what it does best and thus allowing a sub to help with the very low frequencies takes nothing away from my beloved Khorns. It just makes the sound much fuller, more complete and just plain old better. I wish the industry had come up with terms other than 'large' and 'small'. I still cringe a little when setting all my speakers to small. It's just a silly thing, I know. However, listening to the effects of using a good sub for music makes it all very palatable. Heck, many of us have taken a great speaker and made changes in order to improve things with more modern components. I'm a perfect example of changing everything from the crossover to the drivers to the horns. Frankly, it was worth every penny. My very recent purchase of a brand new RSW-15, in a never opened box, was my attempt to get a sub that could faithfully reproduce music and compliment my Khorns. Thus far I am really liking the RSW-15. However, it does not do what my SVS can do when it comes to movie sound effects and sub 20Hz LFE material. So, for the time being I am keeping them both and using one for movies and one for music....just playing the strengths of each. I am currently playing with the RSW location to try and see if it can match the SVS more closely, but no luck yet. If I can ever find a Velodyne HGS-18 in mint condition, I might just jump at that and sell the other two. It is always something. For those new to HT setup etc, I highly recommend the AVSForums thread on Audyssey. It is a super long thread, but has tons of helpful information, setup guides, and long discussions about setting 'small' vs. 'large'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oblio Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 I wish the industry had come up with terms other than 'large' and 'small'. I still cringe a little when setting all my speakers to small. It's just a silly thing, I know. However, listening to the effects of using a good sub for music makes it all very palatable. Large/small nomenclature IMO is just plain WRONG, at least for 99% of all speakers. IOW what 'large' speaker would not benefit from a decent sub, especially LFE on HT ? Why didn't they just have a sub selection, ie. SUB/NOSUB ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipsch Employees Trey Cannon Posted November 13, 2009 Klipsch Employees Share Posted November 13, 2009 I think it should be "full range" or "limited range"....As for 20 Hz and lower, if you hear ANY sound coming from a sub at that frequency it is distortion. We just can’t hear that low. All it should do is move air. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy81 Posted November 14, 2009 Share Posted November 14, 2009 I think it should be "full range" or "limited range"....As for 20 Hz and lower, if you hear ANY sound coming from a sub at that frequency it is distortion. We just can’t hear that low. All it should do is move air. Trey: Would you happen to have a Klipsch produced response graph for the RSW-15 lying around? I recently acquired a beautiful NIB RSW-15 and love the way it sounds with my Khorns and music. However, it does not perform as well as my SVS 20-39 pc+ when it comes to movie LF channel. Just wondering what the true stats on the sub are. I know there are quite a few threads on the topic here, but opinions vary from one extreme to the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoparBob Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 I just ran the Audyssey again on my Denon 3808. This time I set it for LEF and not LEF + MAIN. It setup my mains and center for large and a cross over of 40hz for main and center 60hz for the sides and 90hz for the rear. Both the sides and rears are Heresy's but the sides are on a wall and the backs are on a railing so open on the back. The sub never coms on with out 5.1 so I may rerun it for LFE + Main and see what happens. It sounds good but want to see what sounds better with my system and room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy81 Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 I just ran the Audyssey again on my Denon 3808. This time I set it for LEF and not LEF + MAIN. It setup my mains and center for large and a cross over of 40hz for main and center 60hz for the sides and 90hz for the rear. Both the sides and rears are Heresy's but the sides are on a wall and the backs are on a railing so open on the back. The sub never coms on with out 5.1 so I may rerun it for LFE + Main and see what happens. It sounds good but want to see what sounds better with my system and room. I would double check the manual for your Denon. My Integra has Audyssey and works as follows. All my speakers come in as "large" and sub is correctly detected. I then have the option of leaving this as detected, at which time in stereo I would only use the mains, in 5.1 or 7.1 the sytem will determine what goes to LFE. I have the option in this configuration of selecting "double bass", which I suspect is your LFE + Main, but for me it is way too much bass since it runs the sub and the mains simultaniously. When I select 'small' in all my speakers, I can then set the crossover frequencies for each set of mains, center, and effects. The sub will kick in at whatever frequency I set. In that configuration, if I listen to 2 channel, the Khorn bass is crossed over to the sub at whatever frequency I have set next to my 'small' setting. Double check the system operation because your sub should come on when you set your mains to small, even if you are only listening to 2 channel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 I just ran the Audyssey again on my Denon 3808. This time I set it for LEF and not LEF + MAIN. It setup my mains and center for large and a cross over of 40hz for main and center 60hz for the sides and 90hz for the rear. Both the sides and rears are Heresy's but the sides are on a wall and the backs are on a railing so open on the back. The sub never coms on with out 5.1 so I may rerun it for LFE + Main and see what happens. It sounds good but want to see what sounds better with my system and room. I would definitely make sure that your speakers are set to Small or it won't redirect bass under your crossover to your subwoofer..Btw, that is what Audyssey suggests to do after setup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 ..Double check the system operation because your sub should come on when you set your mains to small, even if you are only listening to 2 channel. Fwiw, in the Denon there is a separate 2 Channel setup where to get the subwoofer to come on you must have it configured "LFE +Mains." NOTE: This is separate from the Multichannel Configuration, where you would still run "LFE" only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy81 Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 Fwiw, in the Denon there is a separate 2 Channel setup where to get the subwoofer to come on you must have it configured "LFE +Mains." NOTE: This is separate from the Multichannel Configuration, where you would still run "LFE" only. Ok, makes sense. I'm not familiar with the Denon setup. When you set it up for LFE+Mains, can you set the crossover frequency? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy81 Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 BTW, this Audyssey setup guide is excellent and will answer just about any question you have on the subject. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14456895#post14456895 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 ...Ok, makes sense. I'm not familiar with the Denon setup. When you set it up for LFE+Mains, can you set the crossover frequency? I believe it uses what is setup in the bass mgmt section but I don't know for sure.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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