StLouisVegan Posted March 13, 2002 Share Posted March 13, 2002 I have a pair of Forte II speakers, and was wondering if anyone have any suggestions for a center and surround speakers that matches them. Current market or speakers that are discontinued please help me out!!! Thanx, Michael ------------------ Michael Tangonan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audible Nectar Posted March 13, 2002 Share Posted March 13, 2002 If you have room for it, the sonic ideal would be another Forte II. If this is not possible, the Academy is a magnetically shielded center channel timbre matched to the heritage line. A single Heresy is also a good choice, and Heresys are also available new (although you may need to work to find a dealer to sell one, but if you bought three, the task may come easier - why three?? - keep reading). Timbre matching is critical in home theatre, especially across the front soundstage. As sounds pan across the front, it is noticeable if the speakers are not matched. Get the biggest center you can - up to 75% of the sound in 5.1 is center channel. This is why the Forte II is really the best sonic option (while a hassle to position for most people). The Academy is the easiest to set up, and magnetically shielded, but hard to find (still out there if you look hard and don't mind the $350-$600 selling prices asked for them these days). Heresys would also be a good timbre match, and can keep up with the Fortes with ease. I use an Academy with my Cornwall II's, with good results, but can still see the benefit of having a third Cornwall as center. The Academy is quite a feat of engineering though - it's hard to believe on first observation that it could keep up with the Cornwalls, but it does. All of these are discontinued (except the Heresy II), but do show up used on ebay and used audio sites, and sometimes right here on this board. Sometimes you can "pair up" with another member here on the bulletin board who needs that other single that you do not need, if you go the Forte II or Heresy route. Some forum members get really creative, using bucking magnets to solve magnet/TV problems; building custom cabinets to get the ideal center for their setup. Rears: Again, ideally, the same Forte II's if possible. Heresys would be another good option. If you are using your system for 5 channel audio of any kind, 5 Forte's would really be quite the system. So would 4 Fortes and an Academy or Heresy center!! If you are only using the rear surrounds for movies, you could go with a more current model as surround, but all heritage would be sonically preferable. Your room layout and equipment will make a difference in what you choose - what your listening room sounds like and what space the room has for those speaker cabinets (I make room for mine - speakers first Most using surround setups are using some sort of 5.1 setup. These are my general impressions "on the blind" for the typical 5.1 setup, but no setup is the same - more info about your room/equipment will make the choices more clear. ------------------ First we Rock, then we Roll! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerohm Posted March 14, 2002 Share Posted March 14, 2002 The Quartet, Forte II and Chorus II are all in the same family and share the same midrange. I am using Forte IIs for the front and surrounds, but they are probably overkill for the surrounds. A set of Quartets would function more than adequately, although it 'may' be a worthwhile modification to build new 'higher' risers to align the Quartet midranges to that of the Forte IIs. I tryed a KM-C (it fit real nice in the base of my TV), and a C7, but never was completely satisfied. I liked the idea of another Forte II, but the Quartet is just a wee bit smaller. For about a year, I lived with an unmodified Quartet on its side as my center. Pretty good results, but that was never my 'plan'. I have since modified the Quartet with a new motor board which allowed me to tip the tweeter and midrange 90 degrees and use the speaker on it's side. I use a TV wall mount (ala Home Depot) to hang the speaker (50lbs ! - tweeter below midrange) above a 40" Mitsubishi Tube... Unshielded but, no problem with interference!?! As a center for the Forte IIs, it is nothing short of ..., well you really have to hear it. I recently picked up a set of Quartets and I am TEMPORARILY 'evaluating' them as my mains. Using them by themselves in 2 channel mode, they do not seem as grand as the Forte IIs, but I am beginning to think that heightening the risers could help that; I also discovered that the Quartets (cabinets anyway) that first came off the production line are built to a higher standard than the ones that were manufactured later on. In HT mode however, they are almost indistinguishable (as far as my memory can tell). This kind of confirms to me anyway, just how much influence the correct center can really play. Don't get me wrong, I am proponent of the phantom center rather that a mismatched center, but you can really open up the sweet spot if things are done right. The modified Quartet's 'sister' will be available 'someday', when the cabinet maker gets around to making another motor board. My point is mixing and matching speakers in the same series will probably yield the optimal results. People rave about the Academy (as a match), but I have no real world experience. This message has been edited by jerohm on 03-14-2002 at 06:45 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhawk92 Posted March 14, 2002 Share Posted March 14, 2002 Michael- I have the Forte II as well, and dearly love them. I started out my HT about 9 years ago with a KV-3. It did quite well, and I didn't think I was missing much. About a year ago, I upgraded to the KV-4 and could tell the KV-3's limitations. However, the KV-4 was a bit bright in comparison to the Fortes, since it was designed to match the Epic series. Earlier this month, I finally picked up an Academy and wow!!! The timbre match is perfect. Now I really know what I was missing with the KV-3. They are hard to find, but if you can, the Academy is well worth it. Granted, it would probably be best to add another Forte II there, but that would require a significant amount of effort. I currently use 2 pr of KG 1.2s for surrounds/back center and they do great for HT, and pretty good for 5-ch stereo. But, it would be incredible if there was another pair of Fortes back there! jerohm- I'd be interested in a pic of that modified Quartet. It's a great idea and one I might look at, but the Academy is quite amazing and much easier to work with. I would agree with you, the Quartet, while a great speaker, doesn't have the "grand-ness" of the Forte II. I auditioned those as well as the Chorus II, and went with the Fortes for the bigger feel. Would have loved to get the Chorus II, but I was stretching the budget with the Fortes. All three speakers are great, and you can't go wrong with any of them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougdrake2 Posted March 14, 2002 Share Posted March 14, 2002 Jerohm - Keenly interested in your comments about modifying the Quartet motor board. I know that HornEd did that with a KLF-30, which has two woofers, and that created a nicely "balanced" setup - a woofer on each side flanking the midrange and tweeter. However, with the Quartet (and my Forte center), there is only 1 woofer, which would necessitate placing it to one side with no match on the other side to balance it out. Does it create an unbalanced sound image for you? I currently have my Forte suspended over my TV (inverted so the tweeter is at the bottom), and while it sounds great, it looks a bit odd to say the least. Mounted horizontally would be much more pleasing to the eye, if the ear can't tell the difference. Thanks! Doug ------------------ My System Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerohm Posted March 14, 2002 Share Posted March 14, 2002 quote: Originally posted by dougdrake2: However, with the Quartet (and my Forte center), there is only 1 woofer, which would necessitate placing it to one side with no match on the other side to balance it out. Does it create an unbalanced sound image for you? Believe me, not in the least. I didn't complete the project until early this year. I intended to post images, but I don't have a digital camera (and sent my 35mm to my daughter in college). NT doesn't support USB so borrowing one also is a complication. Last November I came up with an idea which greatly simplified the implementation. I cut out the original motor board leaving about 3/4" outer edge intact (this corresponds to the original inner bracing of the motor board). The new motor board fits like a cap on the front on the speaker and attaches to that inner 3/4" lip. I caught the cabinet maker during the Christmas lull, and a week later, I was in business (He did a great job). I will still try to get images up, but it will be at least a month. Jhawk92, you are within driving distance. Anyone is welcome to form their own opinion, if you don't comment on my house keeping abilities. This message has been edited by jerohm on 03-14-2002 at 12:43 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QUiKSR20 Posted March 14, 2002 Share Posted March 14, 2002 Jerohm - I would definately like to see a picture of your modified FORTE.. Horned's modified KLF30 looks awesome. ------------------ Thanks, Daryl Gregg MY Home Theatre Page Sony STR-DE975 HT Reciever Sony DVP-NS400D DVD SB-3 Mains SC-1 Center Quintet Rears KSW-12 Sub AR Proseries Interconects This message has been edited by QUiKSR20 on 03-14-2002 at 12:08 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougdrake2 Posted March 14, 2002 Share Posted March 14, 2002 Jerohm - Thanks for the input. What dissuaded you from removing the old motor board altogether? I am hoping to retain all the original parts so it can be restored to normal use one day, if needed. Doug ------------------ My System Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerohm Posted March 14, 2002 Share Posted March 14, 2002 quote: Originally posted by dougdrake2: What dissuaded you from removing the old motor board altogether Attempting to remove the old one! ... which was the original plan. The motor board actually sits in a routed channel that exists on all four sides. There is an additional ~ 3/4" square bracing that is placed entirely around the back of the motor board (attached to each side of the interior of the cabinet). This is all glued and 'brad' stapled together. 'That' motor board was fitted in at the time the cabinet was assembled and NOT ment to to removed - EVER (These cabinets are cira 1989 and seem to be all plywood NOT MDF). I attached the new motor board with 16, 1-3/4" screws, and I guess I 'could' create a different 'motor board cap' - but it ain't gonna happen. I can honestly say that I am now satisfied with this as my center. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornEd Posted March 14, 2002 Share Posted March 14, 2002 Glad to see the adventurous spirit of building better centers! And, yes, indeed, the odds are you will be more than satisfied. Actually Doug, modifying the KLF-30 to be a center gave me some concern... all of which disappeared the first time I heard it. My concern was that two big woofers might cause some intelligibility problems. Those potential problems is why there is a tapered array in the RC-7. Sounds in the vocal range are only transmitted to one woofer. But, that gives us another clue... having one woofer slightly offset from center still allows the center to do its proper linkage with the sound source pictured on the screen. Of course, it is your brain that makes that linkage and being eye dominant and slightly imbalanced in our natural hearing... it all comes out for the better. Thus, my suggestion for the single woofer center is to mount all the speakers as close to the center as good carpentry will allow. Thus, try to visualize a woofer slightly offset to the left. Since the hole is a circle, there is more available motorboard above the curve of the circle and below it. Mounting the tweeter below the curve allows it to be close to the midline of the enclosure and more easily aimed at the head of a person sitting in the center of the sweet spot. Mount the midrange horn above and slightly to the right. Now you have all the horns grouped toward the center with the same volume of cabinet that was designed to support them. Personally, I would not hesitate to use MDF to replace a plywood motorboard... since the industry gravitated to that solution for more than a cost issue. 5.1 deserves to have better center speakers... and those of us who have done the deed... and all of our DVD guests know the truth of it. And frankly, for those of you who enjoy music... it doesn't get any better than having your center channel truly match your mains! Hope this helps. -HornEd PS: Fortunately, the Belle does the deed on the music system. ------------------ HORNED'S EIGHT THEATRICAL LEGENDS, FIVE+ MUSICAL HERITAGES & A ROADIE... SETTING THE STAGE FOR THE "THEATER OF THE MIND"... KLF-30's: Left Main, Center Main, Right Main KLF C7's: L & R Front Effects on 5' sand filled columns KLF-30's: Left Surround, Rear Effects, Right Surround Twin SVS CS-Ultra SubTower, Samson Megawatt Amp KLIPSCH SPEAKER SUPPORT SYSTEMS: Bass friendly, oversized, glove-leather LazyBoy Recliners. Mitsubishi RPHD1080i 65", Yamaha RX-V3000 Receiver Toshiba Pro Scan 6200, Toshiba Pro 6-head SVHS W808 Upscale Monster Cables and Interconnects CHANNELING THE MUSIC EXPERIENCE FROM 2 TO 6! '97 Klipschorn - Mains, '99 Klipsch Belle - Center '83 Cornwall - Surrounds, '93 Academy - Rear Effects Walnut w/ Cane Grilles. Final Amps, etc. to be determined after long discussions with Klipsch Forum Members. THE MOVEABLE (EAR) FEAST... Klipsched Class "A" Motorhome... an acoustics challenge in 8' x 30'... vandalized... but soon to be "On the Road Again!"s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougdrake2 Posted March 15, 2002 Share Posted March 15, 2002 Thanks, J & H. Since I want to keep my Fortes in original condition, it looks like I won't be modifying the motor board. Didn't realize that the box was built around it -- never opened it up!! Doug ------------------ My System Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhawk92 Posted March 15, 2002 Share Posted March 15, 2002 jerohm- Hmmm, I may just take you up on that offer. Not sure where Old Saybrook is, I'm just off Exit 7 on I-84. Would love to hear your "work" and I promise I won't comment on housekeeping style. Besides, I'd love to hear what Forte IIs do for surrounds as I am toying with upgrading my surrounds with the same, or maybe even grabbing a set of Chorus IIs for the fronts. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieTuna Posted March 15, 2002 Share Posted March 15, 2002 I just recently purchased a pair of Forte IIs and moved my Quartets to the rear. Unable to find a affordable Academy, I opted for a KLF-C7 center. I use Quintets as the front effects (Yamaha DSP) and just rigged my JBL 4638 sub/woofer cabinet. I don't know that the KLF-C7 is timbre matched to the Forte IIs, but it all sounds pretty good to me. My ear is in training. I have the Quartets behind and outside of my couch, angled towards the couch. I don't know if this is the best rear setup, but I'm kinda limited for space. They might sound better to the left and right of the couch (in a line with the couch and pointing towards the couch), I don't know. I'd like to post a picture, but keep running into problems when using the paperclip icon to download an image. I'm told a 52K file is too big, where the instrcutions say 75K or less. Any help would be appreciated. CT ------------------ ===================================== You can tune a radio, but you can't tuna fish! ===================================== Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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