I know its a lot to ask... Heresy I crossovers

[carbon summit]

I'm looking to buy a pre/pro and to do the crossovers and titanium tweeters in my front Forte II and Academy in my HT. Well of course this all takes money so I'm trying to decide if I should thin the herd or just plunge deeper into the money pit that this hobby is. I say that knowing what I have is a drop in the well compared to some of the systems I see on here!

I've put my KLF-C7 up for sale in the Garage section since I really never had a need for it, more of a speculative purchase because I know they are hard to come by and figured I might need it someday for the second HT system I've been planning for the basement (that I really don't need but we all know how we seem to justify more speakers with more setups!) After finding the Corns and Heresy I have I'm a stray Heresy away from a nice Heritage HT set up for the basement now so the C7 made the most sense to sell first.

I'm also considering selling my Heresy since I seem to listen to my Cornwalls instead of them My Cornwalls have new caps and tweeter diaphragms and sound great. The Heresy are 1980s and I don't think the backs have ever been off of them. They sound flat compared to the Corns and no real bass to speak of unless you turn it up a bit and even then I'm not impressed. I'm not expecting Cornwall bass, but for having a 12" woofer I'd expect more from the Heresy.

OK to the point of this long winded post. My Heresy are in great shape and I hate to sell them if all they need are some fresh caps. But never hearing them with fresh caps I'm not sure what to expect. My request that is a lot to ask is I'm wondering if any of you have some spare crossovers for Heresy Is that have newer caps in them that I can borrow and hear my Heresy the way that PWK meant them to be heard. Then I can decide if I should keep them and contact Bob for more caps or maybe Heresy are not for me and sell them. I thought about just doing the caps either way and just sell them as Heresy in great shape with the crossovers done if I decide I don't want to keep them since the parts are only $35+$6 shipping and a little bit of my time. Paying shipping on the full crossovers to and from the person that would be willing to help my experiment would probably cost me more than just buying the parts from Bob and being done with it! I'm just afraid that messing with them may actually decrease the value since right now they are truly untouched since they left Hope AK and maybe that adds some value as "All original".

I realize that is a lot to ask and I'd be willing to pay for the postage to me and also pay via paypal a deposit on the crossovers. If I prove to not be honorable and return the crossovers you could keep the money and if I return them to you after my experiment you could just refund the deposit to me.

[carbon summit]

After I reread that post after I submitted it I can't help but feel how stupid it would be to pay shipping to and from someone for the same or more money than to just do the caps and then decide what I think of the Heresy. Does anyone think doing the caps could hurt the value? I can't imagine seeing it that way myself but I can see someone seeing all original as a better thing than some guy I don't know DIYing on the crossovers.

I've read so many posts on here from people that just love their Heresy that I can't help but feel I'm missing something in mine. I hate to let them go without giving them a chance to shine!

[ZombieWoof]

if u'r gonna sell them anyway no leave them alone BUT if u'r on the fence do the new cross overs as for hurting the value you will not as anyone who knows anything know caps degrade

& a hersey that old with new crossovers would be worth more than an untouched hersey for the above reason

Cornies do have a way of spoiling one huh ?

Mike

[70SATMan]

Well, it can work the other way as well. A lot of knowledgable people would rather buy original units so that they can do their own mods. At least that is how I approach it. When I see a modified unit, I'm always questioning the level of expertise, quality of the modded componentry, etc.

If I'm going to invest my time, I'd rather not have to correct anyone elses work.

It they were my untouched Heresys I'd do the following in order (hey initially it's just fiddle time anyway):

1. clean up all internal mechanical connections. If you have the push pin type of connections on the drivers I'd re-tin the wire leads. I would not resolder the spade to wire connections but, I would clean/polish the spades and terminal block connections on the crossover themselves. This includes the terminal block bolt ring lugs on the back panel.

2. tighten all driver mounting to motorboard screws

3. have a listen....If no improvement..

4. replace the driver to horn seals (cheap and doesn't affect originality in any meaningful way)

5. have a listen....If no improvement...

6. Re-cap but, keep the original caps so that you can return it to stock condish.

7. have a listen....If no improvement..

8. Replace/upgrade the diaphrams....

9. have a listen....if no improvement..

10. throw up your hands and go back to listening to your Corns![] Going beyond this point on the Heresy is diving into the deep end of the modification pool.

[Marvel]

Depending on whether they are E or E-2 crossovers in your Heresies, they are $35-$40 from Bob. Open up one of yours and see which it is, and order a set. Change out the caps in one and listen side by side to compare.

DeanG or John Albright posted this for the Heresy:

"I've tried all of the different network mods and networks for the Heresy. Keep it simple; the top is too hot in relationship to the bottom (a common complaint). So, put a 15 ohm resistor in parallel with squawker, you can screw it right to the + - spots on barrier strip for the squawker. Then move the tweeter from tap 2 to tap 1, and the squawker from tap 3 to tap 2. This lowers the midrange and treble by 3dB which brings the bass up and makes the speaker sound much more balanced. The 15 ohm resistor means you don't have to change the primary capacitor value. IOW's, it keeps the crossover points the same. I suggest you try it, you probably won't feel the need to do anything else."

Bruce

[Rivernuggets]

Thanks for the quote Bruce. I like DeanG's suggestion, lowering the mids & highs. It's a little over my head (doesn't take much w/electronics). Could this process be broken down a little more for my slow mind? Are we talking these resistors?

[Marvel]

Are we talking these resistors?

You are on the right track, but this is more what you want.

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=005-15%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20&FTR=005-15&CFID=17051680&CFTOKEN=47763826

These are 12 watt, 1%. The cost is a little higher, but will work way better.

I am finding different Type E schematics for the Heresy, so you need to know which version you have to see if Dean's (John's) additional resistor is corrrect for you. I edited my post above because I'm not sure now which one posted the mod. We need to get it nailed down before you order the parts. It's a pretty easy fix, but a good picture of one of your crossovers would help. It would require opening up one of your cabinets, though. []

DJK says a 15 or 16 ohm willl work.

Bruce

[Rivernuggets]

Thanks again Bruce. I'd like to attempt this, if my crossover will cooperate with this mod. Here's a picture of my crossover.

[Rivernuggets]

Sorry for the hijacked thread, carbon. It's all for the sake of learning and tweeking, right? [Y]

[Marvel]

The 15 ohm resistor can go between 5 and 6 on the terminal block. I don't see a connection on the back of 6, which would mean the squaker isn't connected to anything, but that's just my view from here.

Invidiosulus (Josh) has done this on his. Perhaps he will chime in and help explain. (I have HIIs).

Bruce

[70SATMan]

I don't see a connection on the back of 6, which would mean the squaker isn't connected to anything, but that's just my view from here.

Bruce

There is a continuous jumper wire on the backside.

[Rivernuggets]

"So, put a 15 ohm resistor in parallel with squawker, you can screw it right to the + - spots on barrier strip for the squawker. Then move the tweeter from tap 2 to tap 1, and the squawker from tap 3 to tap 2."

I'm not understanding this phrase 100%. So I connect the resistor to the squawker + and -- (the two squawker screws closest to the camera). Then from there I need to understand the term 'tap'. Sorry to be slow with this, but I'd like to hear the difference it will make and I want to do it right.

[70SATMan]

Taps refer to the autotransformer. They are numbered and represent a different pick up point off of the transformer windings.

Refer to the picture, I've pointed to one set of the taps:

[Marvel]

There
is a continuous jumper wire on the backside.

I thought that might be the case. [Y] Yes, the autoformer has numbered 'taps' or connection points. You will have to unsolder the connection on this to move to the correct connection.

[Rivernuggets]

Thanks 70SATMan. Please have some more patience with me.

This crossover looks to be different from where I was told to change the taps.

Taps 1 and 4 have nothing.

Tap 2 has the squawker.

Tap 3 has the tweeter (after capacitor)

Taps 0 and 5 are inputs.

Because this is different from DeanG's or John Albright's direction, I'm lost.

[Marvel]

So yours is wired like the this schematic? It would be nice if the terminal block was shown as well...

I think I see what you mean. The text I copied has them labeled incorrectly then. In any case, each just needs to move to the next lower tap, which will drop each by 3 dB.

[Invidiosulus]

do the mod!

It's that good.

I used some of the cheap dayton 1% caps from parts express and they sound pretty fine and it cost less than $40 including a soldering iron and some solder to install them, the caps by themselves were 10 ducats for all 4.

the mod really makes sense if you have your heresy's off of the floor, when I first got mine I had them on a concrete slab backed up against a block wall with plaster over it and bass was fine.

different living situations made the mod really work for me as I had them up on stands or as nearfield monitors on my desk

-Josh

[Rivernuggets]

So yours is wired like the this schematic? It would be nice if the terminal block was shown as well...

I think I see what you mean. The text I copied has them labeled incorrectly then. In any case, each just needs to move to the next lower tap, which will drop each by 3 dB.

With my schematic expertise [:|] It looks like that's what I have. Thanks for clarifying Marvel - in my case the tweeter will be moved from tap 3 to 2, and the squawker 2 to 1. Cool...I see in the schematic how each lower numbered tap has double the impedance. If I'm interpreting that right, it makes sense to me how the tweet and squawk are going to be quieter. Weee!

And to be ridiculously repetitive, the resistor connects the positive and negative wires of the squawker, yes? Seems weird to connect them, because in most situations one would want to avoid that.

I've ordered those resistors from Parts Express, so I'll do the mod once they get here. I'll do one speaker, then compare with the original.

Thanks for the help!

[Invidiosulus]

Nothing wrong with being sure.

The resistor does connect to the + and - of the squawker.

I soldered leads on my resistor with spades on the end and attached it at the terminal strip.

The idea being that you are overriding the impedance peaks of the driver with the resistor in parallel.

-Josh

[Rivernuggets]

Thanks Josh.

Hard to believe. I am out of questions. I have a soldering iron from the bronze age, so it's time to score a new one at the Shack. The only soldering I've done is when I made a little switchboard for my young son, so he can turn lights on/off. Even put a little buzzer in there too. It's a great toy for him - I'll find a picture somewhere and post it ('cause I know everyone is chomping to see it).

Oh wait! I DO have one more question. There are many types of solder. Any recommendations for this application?

Thank you Bruce and Josh for helping me along on my first mod. You guys rule!

-Lyle