Klipsch Corwall vintage and classical/jazz

[Brent Powers]

I have a chance to get a pair of Cornwalls this weekend through Craigslist. $400 pair.

I'm using an Anthem Integrated 1 recently modded by a friend with new caps, etc. Right now I'm pushing a couple of Vandersteen 2ces with this little thing and it holds its own pretty well forcing its way through 85 dBs sensitivity.

The friend who modded the Anthem referred me to the add and I made an appointment for the weekend to give em a listen. I can just manage the $400. My pal is a big Klipsch enthusiast; he uses a tiny Chinese integrated (15 watts!) and loves the sound. However, he does tend toward chamber jazz and vocals, not that big on full orchestra classical.

Question: How do the Cornwalls do with Mahler, Ludwig van, etc.?

I like wide and deep soundstage, which is why I've stuck with the Anthem for more than a decade now. I keep coming back to it after various adventures with hybrids, with tube/ss separates, with straight muscle tube amps (I had a Sonic Frontiers Power 1/Pre 3 se combo in here for a while but I sold it for fear of being in tweak hell for the rest of my life, and the kt88 just doesn't do what the el-84 can with air and space. I came back to the old Anthem, especially after I got it modded.

Long entry here for a brief question. I'll be taking some music over there, just wanted some opinions.

Thanks in advance,

BP

[garymd]

$400 is a great deal if they're in decent shape.

Cornwalls are wonderful with acoustic jazz.

They also sound great with rock, classical, or just about any other music. They are more forgiving than some of the other, more efficient Klipsch Heritage models but you might not hear it switching from the Vandesteens.

I bought my '80 Cornwalls new and I've tried many, many different amp/preamp combos over the years. The Scott 299b I currently use sounds terrific. I prefer the EL-84 over the KT-88 with Cornwalls but I know plenty of folks who use KT-88 amps with great success. You will need to decide for yourself.

Good luck and welcome to the forum!

[Brent Powers]

I think the Scott you're using is was the model for the Anthem Integrated 1. Same board layout, el-84 octet power tubes. I hear this from my pal who recapped the thing, and I guess he's in touch with Chris Johnson, who designed the Sonic Frontiers and the first Anthem hardware up to the point when he sold it to another company. He's back to selling parts and upgrades, etc.

I am eager to check out the Klipsch speakers with the Anthem. I'm taking it along with me on Sunday to audition them with it. This is all contingent upon his still having them by then. We shall see.

Thanks for the input and the welcome.

BP

[LarryC]

I haven't heard Vandersteens, but think the Cornwall will be excellent to outstanding on classical music depending on what you expect from classical on hi-fi. They have a powerful, socko bass that is tops for jazz and movies. A particular winner in the Corns is the 600-Hz horn, which renders a great, open, accurate midrange. (The new Cornwall III's have a smaller MR horn that isn't quite as open IMHO.)

The larger win is Klipsch's unbeatable rich, musically accurate sound. To me, other speakers sound dry by comparison and a stage removed from the music.

It sounds like you have an opportunity to hear whatever you want on them. Give 'em a workout! Good luck! LC

[Brent Powers]

Well, you folks have me pretty much sold on them without even a listen. I haven't heard back from the guy yet but I'm hopeful. He seemed OK with waiting until Sunday but if there are so many Klipsch enthusiasts around I may be SOL. We shall see. Thanks for your comments.

BP

[russ69]

I like wide and deep soundstage

The Corns are good at jazz and can sound sweet and full but they are not the masters of the deep sound-stage. Your Vandersteens are better at this. However for pure musical enjoyment it's hard to beat a nice Klipsch system. It's you choice.

Thanx, Russ

[PrestonTom]

There is quite a difference between these two sets of speakers ( I owned Vandersteen 2Cs for about 10 years and Cornwall 2s for about 6 years). I actually liked the Vandersteens, although they had some shortcomings (as do all speakers). I prefer the Cornwalls, especially for the type of music you are listening to (although I have no idea how loud you listen or how large your room is)

Comparing the two speakers: 1) the Cornwalls have a much stronger, deeper and cleaner bass, 2) The Cornwalls have a very different mid range with the Cornwall being more "strident" and a bit nasal (listen to brass and vocals to hear the difference most easily) - the mids are better on the Vandersteen - although I could live with either, 3) the highs on the Vandersteens are a better. 4) the Cornwalls sound better overall when your play them loud, while the Vandersteens lose some of their charm at higher output levels, 5) the dynamics on the Cornwall are simply stunning compared to the Vandersteen.

The differences are so considerable, that I would not worry about the amplifiers at this point. If the amp is noisy, it will be easily revealed on the Cornwalls. If the amp is undersized or not able to deliver much current, it will be revealed on the Vandersteens (this difference is mostly due to the differences in impedance and efficiency between the two speakers).

IMO, I am not a big fan of trying to "equalize" speakers by using different amplifier topologies. If you do not like the way the Cornwalls basically sound (with a decent amplifier), then no amount of swapping amplifiers or fooling with fancy crossover capacitors is going to fundamentally change things. Listen to them and see if they grab you. If they don't then these may not be for you.

Good Luck,

-Tom

[Brent Powers]

Now that IS some useful information. Means I don't have to lug my Anthem over to the guy's place and move in for the afternoon.

I am being a bit hasty about this altogether but my friend now informs me that he wants to ride along and give a listen himself. He may want to buy them just to mod and sell. So I'll have an expert's ears to determine any noticeable technical defects right off.

I don't tend to listen to music at high levels. My ceilings are 14', meaning I don't need a lot of volume to fill the space. I even listen to full orchestra classical or big band jazz at moderate levels. Main thing is the Anthem is a little short on power to really body out on the Vandersteens. These do work well with my Conrad-Johnson/Rotel 991BX combo. What is wanting with the latter is refinement ands soundstage. Even so, I sometimes think I prefer it.

Thanks for the input.

BP

[PrestonTom]

Brent, I will be curious about your thoughts regarding the Cornwalls and how they compare with your Vandersteens.

Let us know ....

[garymd]

Brent,

I ran my Cornwalls with a big 70s Kenwood SS receiver for 20 years before moving to tubes. Tom is right, you will either love them or you won't. I don't know many who don't like the sound.

BTW - Nice last name.[]

GP

[Brent Powers]

Mom wanted me to be an actor. I tried but found out I really didn't like it. I coulda been a contenda but the problem is, well, other actors. And working for Roger Corman showed me just what kind of people I could expect to be hanging with. Believe me, watching movies is better than making them.

[Brent Powers]

Well, it looks like the Vandersteens are winning. My friend, Richard Hing, came by and listened to the current setup and found nothing wanting in my system the Klipsch would improve. We'll run over to the guy who's selling the Cornwalls next week and either Rich will take them to mod or I will or won't take them for my system but ... Oh, it's good to be content, you know. At least until the guy gets back from his business trip, I listen to the Cornwalls and find myself seized with the want-need-must have's. We shall see.

Thanks to all of you again for your input.

BP

[garymd]

Don't take Mr. Hing's word for it. Listen for yourself. There are many who actually prefer Cornwalls to Khorns. They have a unique sound. Keep us posted.

- The Other Mr. Powers

[Brent Powers]

Oh, it's not just him. I've been quite happy letely with my current setup. I suppose I can't believe I am content with what I've got. Of course I have every intention to take my Anthem over to Mr. Hing's place and listen to it through his own Forte 2s. Some beutiful pairs of that model on eBay. Really, it's just part of the trip, the journey. You listen to this, listen to that, buy stuff, sell stuff, regret selling it and buy it again. Audiophilia. Rich is into rolling his own, which is something I'd like to get into if I can acquire the patience. Perhaps there is a med for it.

[Brent Powers]

Of course this is all weirdly theoretical since I have never heard a Klipsch rig at all, in my life. You know, if you had a brother, would he like noodles?

[Dennie]

Hi Brent and Welcome!

Perhaps there is a med for it.

Sorry, no "med" for it, yet. But we'll be here if you need us! []

We have to remember and cherish the moments of "contentment", as they can be few and far between.

Dennie

[russ69]

What is wanting with the latter is refinement and soundstage.

Brent,

I'm going to take the wrath of Jacksonbart but if you want to explore detail and soundstage depth and you are using Vandersteens now, the obvious speaker choice is a planer type, perhaps a Magneplaner, an Electrostatic or a Line Source Ribbon. If you are really into jazz, with a strong like of brass and full bass and want to dabble with some tube gear then the Klipsch are the way to go. The Klipsch have the dynamics, the planers have the image depth.

Thanx, Russ

P.S. OK boys don't flame me too hard.

[Brent Powers]

Hey Russ

Yes, I've heard both Magneplaner and the Quad Electrostatic, neither of which I can say I like very much, at least in the setup envioronments in which I listened.

My taste ruun primarily to classical with occasional jazz. And in classical I prefer the full orchestra late Romantic (i.e., from Wagner to Shostakovich), although I also do a lot of pure classical, esplecially Beethoven, the Big Baroque like Handel, Bach's sacred works and the Brandenburg's, string quartets from Beethoven on. In Jazz I like stuff from the Miles Davis, John Coltrane, Bill Evans era, Miles all the way through "******* Brew".

Fact is, though, I love all kinds of music, and I go on various kicks.

I've found that tubes have to be introduced into the system at the preamp stage at least. Big tube power amps are impractical, at least within my means.

The Anthem is fine at all levels, especailly since Richard's mods and upgrades. However, I do need more efficient speakers to really bring out its virtues and after a lot of A/B-ing, I'm finding the C/j-Rotel combo the best for the Vandersteens. That's why I'll keep after the Klipsch until I've had a chance to try a pair in my system.

Have to find out if I do like noodles -- empirically.

BP

[JL Sargent]

I really enjoy "cool jazz" on my Klispch speakers. I have some Bill Evan's Trio going right now.

Also, the older you get, the better the horn loaded speakers sound IMHO. I suspect if you give the Cornwalls a chance you will take them.

[Brent Powers]

The first real jazz album I actually liked was "Kind of Blue", which I heard in 1960 through a small home made mono system. Before that I only pretended to like jazz because it was the hip then. That album is a miracle, of course, and I was often dissapointed in what I heard at clubs, expecting the combos to make sounds like that. The only time I really dug what I was hearing was when I saw Thelonious Monk live at the Crescendo on Sunset Strip. That was the real thing. Can't call him "cool". Nor Coltrane, for the most part. Bill Evans, yes. Miles was cool for a while, then hot again in his later stuff, much of it awful. We used to get into it about East Coast/West Coast, a sort of Brahms/Wagner rivalry for the Playboy set. Didn't mean a bloody thing. Is Charles Mingus West Coast Cool? Again, Thelonious Monk, living in San Francisco, just had to be West Coast Cool, eh? Und so weiter.

Tubes and high efficiencey speakers are the thing for this kind of music.

I fully intend to hear the Cornwalls next week and either break the bank or give a listen to other models. Richard has the Fortes, which I want to audition with my Anthem.

As I say, the world of Klipsch is still speculative, even though I've has some very stimulating conversations here on the forum!

I started with tubes at a time when that was all there was and I've always wondered why things never sounded right until I returned them in the 90s. At first I thought it was some kind of very expensive old foggie nostaliga market but ... well, that sure ain't true. Didn't know nothin about speaker efficiency until fairly recently.