carbon summit Posted February 26, 2010 Share Posted February 26, 2010 I've been playing with my Yamaha 663 trying to decide if I should or shouldn't buy the UMC-1. Whats everyone finding that works for settings on their Yamaha receivers as far a YPAO and the other set up stuff to get the best sound. I sometimes honestly think my system sounds better with the EQ off than it does with the auto PEQ. I've played with it and have my own settings on the GEQ but there is no science to it. I start with the YPAO results and go from there. I think I listened to receivers and car stereos set up with the EQ set to a V shaped setting for so long when I was younger that I think thats the way music should sound. You know the lows are pushed up and gradually go to 0 and then the high settings go back up the other way so the display looks like a V. When I listen to music after running YPAO it just seems so lifeless. What are other Yamaha owners doing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted February 26, 2010 Share Posted February 26, 2010 I use the YPAO as set up but switch to DIRECT mode (bypassing all digital processing) if I want to listen to just my LS in stereo mode with LF going to them (normally they are set to SMALL with LF going to THX subs). This is particularly useful at low volumes when I don't care about deep bass and the THX amp keeps kicking off due to lack of signal. On my RX-V2600 I have two programmable settings from the remote that allow different configurations but I don't play with them much. One is normal YPAO mode, I think the other is 5 channel stereo with YPAO off but rarely use that one. On mine you can view the curves and they are anything but smiley-face eq curves, usually some deep notch at some mid-bass frequency (room resonace probably) and a gradual ramp up in HF, corresponding to the K77 cut offs. I'm very happy with the YPAO performance, this is my third Yamaha HT receiver and I don't have any complaints on the sound over here. Lots of guys have heard my modest system. Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbon summit Posted February 26, 2010 Author Share Posted February 26, 2010 I'm not sure I have complaints. I usually go pretty close to what YPAO tells me as I'm sure its smarter than I am at this point about setting the EQ. A few tweaks here and there. I guess what I was saying is I wonder if I've heard music for years with an exaggerated EQ setting and now I hear close to what it should sound like and it seems to bland. Not enough bass is one complaint I would have with the way YPAO sets things. I usually turn my subs down and do YPAO and then turn them up some. That said I don't listen to rap or expect my house to shake, I just like a good firm bass sound. Do you use front, flat or natural? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DU73 Posted February 26, 2010 Share Posted February 26, 2010 i run it then play on straight mode but also make minor adjustments here and there but nothing major re crossover to 60hz (my preference not at standard 80hz), speakers to small etc etc.. sub to +5db then i can change the sub level through sub volume if needed in different movies.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted February 26, 2010 Share Posted February 26, 2010 I use the front setting. I have CW rears that I set to LARGE because they can take it. Give nice balance of LF with the THX subs in corner up front and dual CW's behind me. I don't think YPAO sets sub/satellites levels does it? Either way, your method of fine tuning your subs level sounds fine. I guess I do the same with mine since I turn my THX amp to about 2/3 before running YPAO then boost it for action adventure movies. But the old 'smiley face' graphic eq curve is rarely the right setting for any system or any room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckeye_Nut Posted February 26, 2010 Share Posted February 26, 2010 It's all in the settings....front-natural-flat?? ect...etc... Plus there is nothing wrong with tweaking to meet your exact needs. I have some experience...own both the 2500 and 3900 currently..... I tweak the settings for ME.... The end result is always exactly what I want... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbon summit Posted February 28, 2010 Author Share Posted February 28, 2010 In your experence is there a rule of thumb of when to use each one: flat, front and natural? I've tried all three and it seems that YPAO really takes the bass away. The highs and mids sound great but the LF really is gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuzzzer Posted February 28, 2010 Share Posted February 28, 2010 I use my receiver's Audyssey to calculate distance and output but turn off any EQing it does. I run everything flat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbon summit Posted February 28, 2010 Author Share Posted February 28, 2010 I use my receiver's Audyssey to calculate distance and output but turn off any EQing it does. I run everything flat. If you turn off the EQ after running Audyssey don't you lose any correction it made to account for issues in your room? My room isn't ideal so I know I need help there! I've read all over on the internet that people are complaining about YPAO and other systems making the music sound dull and low on bass. Which makes me think like I was trying to say above that people are so used to manually setting the EQs themselves and have come to expect exaggerated sounding music. I've read the manual of my 663 about YPAO and also spent some time on the AVS thread for the 663 trying to learn a little more again ( I say again because when I got the 663 I read everything I could but once its set up a guy seems to forget a lot of stuff) and I've setting it up a few different ways to see what I like. I think I struggle with manual tweeking because I'm not sure what frequencies to adjust and pretty soon you've moved a few all over and you have no idea what to do next! I'd like to be able to clear out the GEQ and start fresh but I'm not sure how. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuzzzer Posted February 28, 2010 Share Posted February 28, 2010 If you turn off the EQ after running Audyssey don't you lose any correction it made to account for issues in your room? My room isn't ideal so I know I need help there! I've read all over on the internet that people are complaining about YPAO and other systems making the music sound dull and low on bass. Yes. I looked at the EQ it applied and the graph was all over the place. No doubt it is attempting for a flatter response but I like how things sound with it turned off. Most people are used to listening with heavier than flat bass, that's why you probably don't like how things sound after you run YPAO. On paper it might look good but that doesn't mean its going to sound good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckeye_Nut Posted March 1, 2010 Share Posted March 1, 2010 In your experence is there a rule of thumb of when to use each one: flat, front and natural? Only use 'front' if your front speakers are of superior quality and non matching speakers. The front setting will not equalize the front speakers...so it is not ideal, but this setting will blend the other inferior speakers to match the front speakers as best as possible. If you have matching speakers, the flat setting is ideal...... Natural is similar to flat, except it de-emphasizes the high frequencies. It's only recommended if you calibrate using the flat setting first and that result is a little too harsh for your personal taste. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckeye_Nut Posted March 1, 2010 Share Posted March 1, 2010 Most people are used to listening with heavier than flat bass, that's why you probably don't like how things sound after you run YPAO. On paper it might look good but that doesn't mean its going to sound good. There is probably a lot of truth to that statement. The primary gain control knob on my sub is set where I want it....and YPAO always seems adjust it by -4db....LOL The first manual override I make after running YPAO is always to adjust the LFE level back to 0db[] I always keep the LFE receiver setting at 0db.....I may tweak the subwoofer gain control from time to time depending what I am watching, but I always make that adjustment on the sub itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Islander Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 I think I listened to receivers and car stereos set up with the EQ set to a V shaped setting for so long when I was younger that I think thats the way music should sound. You know the lows are pushed up and gradually go to 0 and then the high settings go back up the other way so the display looks like a V. That Vee or "smiling face" group of EQ settings is intended only for listening at low volume, to compensate for the ears' reduced sensitivity to low-pitched and high-pitched sounds when the volume is reduced. It's also called "loudness compensation", which is what loudness buttons do. They're also meant to be used at low volumes only. You can Google "Fletcher-Munson curves" to learn more about it.Using those settings at regular or high volume gives unnaturally strong lows and highs, but some people become accustomed to it and find normal/flat/accurate settings now sound thin to them.As for my system, the receiver tone controls are set to Bypass, meaning flat. The E-V Dx38 processor handles EQ for the bi-amped speakers and it uses the settings provided by Roy Delgado, the engineer at Klipsch. I haven't run any tests, but I assume the goal of those EQ settings is to produce a relatively flat/accurate in-room response with that model of speaker, in this case 510 JubScalas. The sound is very clear, realistic and pleasant to the ears, assuming the recording is a good one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbon summit Posted March 4, 2010 Author Share Posted March 4, 2010 I think I listened to receivers and car stereos set up with the EQ set to a V shaped setting for so long when I was younger that I think thats the way music should sound. You know the lows are pushed up and gradually go to 0 and then the high settings go back up the other way so the display looks like a V. Using those settings at regular or high volume gives unnaturally strong lows and highs, but some people become accustomed to it and find normal/flat/accurate settings now sound thin to them. I guess I'm one of those people thats become accustomed to it and finds how it should sound flat. But I'm listening to my Cornwalls hooked to my 663 and jumping between straight, straight enhanced and pure direct then jumping into the menu and toggling between what the 663 thinks it should should like and my GEQ. I know the Yamaha's sounds better. Its cleaner and clearer but I love a good bass line! So I surrender and accept my receiver is smarter than me.That said I'm confused on what the difference is between two of the options I have: Enjoying unprocessed input sources (Straight decoding mode) When this unit is in the “Straight” mode, 2-channel stereo sources are output from only the front left and right speakers. Multi-channel sources are decoded straight into the appropriate channels without any additional effect processing. Enjoying pure hi-fi sound Use the Pure Direct mode to enjoy the pure high fidelity sound of the selected source. When the Pure Direct mode is activated, this unit plays back the selected source with the least circuitry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Islander Posted March 4, 2010 Share Posted March 4, 2010 Pure Direct has a shorter signal path and may sound a little clearer, in theory at least. However, it also disables the sub, so it's a setting I use very rarely. 99% of the time, I use Straight when listening to 2-channel sources, since I believe that almost all speakers and any varieties of music with more bass than a flute solo need a sub for proper reproduction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbon summit Posted March 4, 2010 Author Share Posted March 4, 2010 Pure Direct has a shorter signal path and may sound a little clearer, in theory at least. However, it also disables the sub, so it's a setting I use very rarely. 99% of the time, I use Straight when listening to 2-channel sources, since I believe that almost all speakers and any varieties of music with more bass than a flute solo need a sub for proper reproduction. Straight is what I use when I want to listen to two channel. My question is does straight use YAPO? I'd guess yes and Pure Direct doesn't but I don't know that to be true. I want to have YPAO find the weaknesses in my room and adjust for it but thats about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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