K-horn owners - How square are your corners? How's the sound?

[Chris A]

Got a calibrated mike w/cable, a mixer, and Room-EQ Wizard (REW) running on a laptop? Try it out - add a little gap (about 1/2" should be enough) around the collar of the Khorn and see what happens to in-room response...

Chris

[Groomlakearea51]

Another approach..... http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/t/109618.aspx

It works. straight tailboard, beveled and used closed cell gasket tape along the bottom piece, tailboard, and to isolate and seal the top section; then gasket tape along the outer edges of the top section. Install the bass bins first, then put the top section on (minus the lag bolts that normally hang down). I had an advantage in that when I built the man cave, I made absolutely sure the corners were..... square... (at least square enough to allow the use of the speaker gasket tape). Because that bottom panel flushes to the wall, there is also no "leakage" under the bin. Room is 16.5 x 12.5, flared ceiling, and treated. Woofers are Crites CW-1526's, midrange are new Atlas PD5VH's (K-55), Crites CT-125 tweeters and A/4500 crossovers. Bass is very powerful, tight and room reflections are very, very minimal due to design and treatment.

I've considered as a follow on experiment to put another bottom piece on top of the bin (They are just top section bottom pieces... very easy to cut) and enclose the backs, but leave the opening as is. To extend it out and make more "curves" would make it similar in appearance to the Jubilee, but I do not have the measuring equipment to get that final flare/ opening correct. maybe I'll just cut "triangles" and experiment with the final 2-3 vertical pieces that control the "flare".

[The Dude]

If building a room from scratch as in finishing a non finished room, what would it take to make the corner more square. Just asking if it can be done, cause with in the next year I will be at that stage.

duder

[fini]

You have to consider building construction/capentry is done by carpenters who mostly do "rough capentry" - they are not usually , say "cabinet makers" and as such most corners in buildings are not square - no reason for it really - which is one the main reasons motivating the development of the Jubilee.

A lot of the time, it's the sheetrock taper who builds up the mud in the corner. Overall, the walls may be square, but because the framing square you may be using to check is being "bumped out" in that 1st 6" of the corner, the ends of your framing square will be way off the walls. Best way to check for "square" on your walls is to use the good ol' Pythagorean Theorum. Measure out 3' from the corner on one wall, 4' out from the corner on the other wall. Then check the diagonal. Should be 5' (60"). For those building new homes, if you're real anal about the corners, you can have your carpenter rip, say, 3/8" off the corner studs. That way, when the sheetrock is applied, it sets back from the plane of the other studs in the wall, and when the taper muds the corner, it should be built out enough so that you end up with nice, true corners. Of course, this all requires coordination between the trades (and some experimentation to find the right amount to take off those corner studs), but it can be done. This technique can be used on the studs on which sheetrock joints occur as well. I've gotta tell you though, I've never done this, or been asked to do this. I'd do it if I knew Khorns were going in the corner! Actually, there are a few more things I'd do to the framing if I were building for Khorn placement...

[homemadeheresy]

[

Sounds like a good business to be in...if you can make sales.

On the original topic: I remember seeing a Klipsch marketing VP on video making a statement about the 60 Anniv. Khorn (with enclosed back). He obviously thought it was a great idea, expecting that the crossover/balancing network would have to be rebalanced to take into account the enclosed back effectiveness increase (i.e., expecting it to make the Khorn bass more efficient).

He was apparently right about the balancing network having to be reworked: he acknowledged that the enclosed back actually decreased the Khorn bass bin performance . This should be a clue to the enclosing of Khorn backs. I would use a false corner approach, and not an enclosed KHorn back approach. Enclosing the back of the Khorn reduces the flare rate on the last fold of the horn, thus decreasing performance. The false corner instead allows the final fold of the horn to expand at a more natural rate by using the corner of the room as its outside form line.

Cheers,

Chris

Was this because that they didn't change the physical size of the bass bin results in a different final flare rate? Or because the final flare was too short? I read on here somewhere that the benefit from making false corners longer than 4ft. resulted in a neglible improvement. So I would imagine making them shorter than "optimal" would also result in decreased efficiency. If you could look at a curve of the bass horns sensitivity, I'd bet that where it starts pooping out is directly proportional to the length of the sound wave/horn length.

Just my 2 cents.

[Chris A]

Was this because that they didn't change the physical size of the bass bin results in a different final flare rate? Or because the final flare was too short?

Roy Delgado has always compelled us to think in terms of "volume expansion rate", not linear (i.e., wall) expansion rate. When the Khorn back is enclosed by its own back, it is not taking advantage of the cubic inches of volume between the enclosed back and the corner of the room. This means that that last fold of the horn is actually taking on a slightly lower flare rate (thinking volume expansion here).

Additionally, Roy mentioned that the seals between the Khorn top-hat collar and the side walls are not very good, and this may account for a slightly greater effective volume expansion on the last fold. In effect, the standard Khorn (without enclosed back) is not only expanding horizontally into the room's corner on the last fold, it is also expanding vertically to some small degree. Again, we are talking about effective volume expansion rate.

Chris