Speaker & Receiver Upgrade Questions

[LaronB]

My parent's HT room is roughly 18'x18' and extends about 20' into the kitchen (where there is no right-side wall if one were looking at the TV). The television niche is not centered on the wall; it is farther off to the left. There is a fireplace and mantel that fill up the right side of the wall.

The room has a 10' ceiling that houses front L/R in-ceiling speakers (Klipsch SCR-2) and surround speakers of the same model. Link to speaker's specs:

• Klipsch SCR-2 In-Ceiling Speaker - 8 ohms, 50 watt RMS

The center speaker (Klipsch RC-25) is sitting atop a shelf that is roughly 1' above the TV (year-2002 50" Panasonic Plasma):

• Klipsch RC-25 Center Speaker - 8 ohms, 125 watt RMS

The subwoofer (Klipsch RW-8) rests directly below the TV enclosed in the bottom, middle section of the custom built-in wood cabinet:

• Klipsch RW-8 Subwoofer - 125 watt RMS

My parents purchased these speakers for the room as an offer from the homebuilders during construction. The in-ceiling speakers were professionally installed. The center speaker and subwoofer were simply delivered to us for self-installation. We had installed a custom built-in wall unit, designed by my mother, that did not take into considertion proper speaker placement.

Over the last 6 years, these speakers have been powered by a Panasonic SA-HE100K Receiver.

Because our plasma panel is about to croak, we feel it's time to upgrade not just the TV but all of our A/V equipment to today's HD standards. We plan on buying the 54" Panasonic TC-P54G25, the Oppo BDP-83 Blu-ray Player as well as other components.

The Problem:

All of us agree the overall sound we get from the current receiver and speaker set up is underwhelming. First and foremost, I am not a fan of in-ceiling speakers for HT use, especially of the Synergy Series that is in the ceiling now. Secondly, the in-ceiling speakers were centered by the width of the room and not the niche or seating area. Therefore, the left front and left surround speakers are in line with the left edge of the TV while the right front and right surround are roughly 6 feet from the right edge of the TV. The positioning of these speakers is awkward, and their downward aiming design takes away from the directionality of the sound material. However, we are pleased with the sound produced by the center speaker and subwoofer.

If we were to purchase a pair of Reference Series bookshelf speakers to replace the in-ceiling fronts and place them on shelves to the left and right of the center channel, would that yield a significant improvement in the loudness, directionality and clarity of the sound output? In theory it should, or correct me if I am wrong. I would like to keep the center speaker and subwoofer that we have now. Although they were built in 2003, I am hoping there is a pair of bookshelf speakers today that can somewhat match their tonal characteristics. The Klipsch RB-61's seem like a good option. I encourage your suggestions. My mother has ruled out floorstanding speakers and the space designated for each bookshelf speaker is 17" (H) by 17" (W) by 24" (D).

As for the surround speakers, my mother is not willing to mount anything to the back wall. So perhaps those two Synergy Series in-celings can be replaced with a pair of Reference Series in-celings like the Klipsch CDT-5650-C.

And finally, we will need to buy a brand-receiver that not only pairs well with the speakers but can supply more than enough power to them and fulfill our feature requirements:

• HDMI 1.3 - at least 3 inputs.
• Accurate automatic speaker calibration
• Powered second zone functionality
• Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio decoding
• Can connect an iPod or iPhone directly to its USB

If you can pinpoint a model for me, I will be eternally grateful to you. Or if not, I'd love to hear brand recommendations.

[jrod]

Welcome, Laron!

Okay, 1st question: Yes, the RB-61's would work, or the RB-25's (if you could find them, basically the same as the 61's, just its predecessor). I also think they would be a major improvement over the in-wall model you currently have as your L/R.

2nd ?: I really don't know if the move to the Reference in-walls would improve the sound of the rears. I honestly have 0% experience with either speaker. My guess is yes, but again, only a guess.

3rd ?: There a lot of options as far as receivers go, for what you're looking for, check out 4-5 brands and weigh the pros/cons of each. To point you in the right direction I would advise looking at: Pioneer, Yamaha, Onkyo, and Marantz. Each one has a unique sound and a model that meets your criteria. Each one should fit in the $400-$600 range. One example is this Pioneer, excellent reviews and owned by a couple forum members:

http://www.pioneerusa.com/PUSA/Products/HomeEntertainment/AV-Receivers/PioneerReceivers/ci.VSX-1019AH-K.Kuro

PS- There are also a lot of ways to connect an ipod/iphone to your receiver. I highlighted the above Pioneer because it had the actual USB port you were looking for.

PPS- Good luck!!

[Youthman]

What an introduction Laron!

All of us agree the overall sound we get from the current receiver and speaker set up is underwhelming.

Lots of great options out there today, especially if you are willing to purchase used equipment. Look for Onkyo, Denon, Yamaha and Harman Kardon. If you are most interested in movies, the Onkyo is a great bang for your buck.

their downward aiming design takes away from the directionality of the sound material.

That was my assessment as well when I heard an all in ceiling system. Just doesn't sound natural to me, especially for the front speakers.

If we were to purchase a pair of Reference Series bookshelf speakers to replace the in-ceiling fronts and place them on shelves to the left and right of the center channel, would that yield a significant improvement in the loudness, directionality and clarity of the sound output?

Loudness will be greatly affected by the sensitivity rating of the speaker. Their current mains are 92db at 1 meter with 1 watt of power. The higher the sensitivity, the louder they will be with the same power.

I am hoping there is a pair of bookshelf speakers today that can somewhat match their tonal characteristics

If you don't mind buying used, the RB-25's are the perfect match for them. I would mention my RB-35's for sale but they are two inches taller than your 17" height restriction. They are 19" tall. Try looking on Ebay for the RB-25's if you want to keep the existing center.

In ceiling for rears would not be that bad if you cannot mount wall speakers.

Good luck with your quest...we are here to help.

[Stolenrs]

I agree that the 61's would sound great but lack in the low end, I have a buddy that mounted a pair from the cieling with a mount he modified and they look great. Just a thought. I would also suggest that you look art the rc-52 center, it is a bit bigger but you will get IMO better front stage sound with the RB-61's

As for a reciever look at the Onkyo or the new line of Integra like the 40.1 or the 30.1, I currently have an older Integra 6.6 and looking to upgrade to the 40.1 in the near future.

good luck!!

[LaronB]

Thank you for your responses jrod, Youthman, and Stolenrs. I will consider your recommendations of the RB-61. However, what are the negative effects of pairing them with my RC-25?. I took measurements of the center speaker area, and I could fit an RC-52.

On a different note, I explained to my parents that they would no longer require the use of the front in-ceiling speakers if we recplaced them with a pair of bookshelf ones. My mother then made the analogy that having those two speakers in the ceiling doing nothing would be like having a pair of shoes that you can't wear. Well, while reading reviews of different receivers, I was introduced to a relatively new feature called heightened surround sound. Receivers that are equipped with either Dolby Pro Logic IIz or Audyssey DSX can create a channel for speakers that are mounted higher above the main L/R channels. So, in theory I could utilize my in-ceilings for that purpose.

I believe the Onkyo TX-SR607 was the first receiver to incorporate this feature. The Denon AVR-4310CI and the step down AVR-3310CI also have heightened surround capabilities and look like plausible choices. We need a receiver that performs well with movies and music alike. The TV speakers are going to be unnaceptable, so the receiver must be able to effectively handle 2-channel content as well. Is there an option on these receivers to switch from 5.1 to 2.1 when watching TV?

[Youthman]

Well, while reading reviews of different receivers, I was introduced to a relatively new feature called heightened surround sound.

I was going to suggest the very same thing (although I think it is mostly marketing hype). At least it would satisfy her to know that they are being used.

[Youthman]

Laron, what about RB-5's? MicStiffy is selling a pair for $250. Great price for a great speaker.

Link

[carbon summit]

You're already getting great advice so I'll just say welcome!

[Stolenrs]

I don't really know if it is a negative pairing the 61's with your current RC-25, just that you will generate a better front sound stage with the larger center channel, as many have stated before most of your dialog comes through your center channel, when I upgraded from the 52 to the 62 it was a world of difference. just a thought, maybe there is a local dealer that has one you can listen to and hear for yourself.

Good luck!!

Ross

[Cal Blacksmith]

Yep, what they said.

Other than that, Yamaha has had the extra set of front speakers as an option for many years, Not sure about the spelling but they are called prescense or something like that GRIN

Welcome to the board!

[Yura]

I have 4 black RB-3s that i can sell. PM me for details if interested.