Klipscorn Triamping question

[erictye]

Ok, I finally made a decision on triamping. This is the clearest image I could find on the topic(link below). I was curious about the "DC block" as well as any other thoughts and opinions. Initially, I have decided on Crown K1 for the woofer and 2 crown D75-a for the remainder. All run through DBX driverack PA and starting off with a melos Ma-333 with nos 6922.

http://www.rocketroberts.com/techart/multi_amp.htm The triamp config.

[Coytee]

Good luck on your journey. I use a K2 on my woofers. Gives them some serious bark iffen ya know what I mean!

[Y]

[6l6gc]

I use a 20uf cap in front of the mids, and for the k77 same value caps they use on the AA crossover (dont remember the value right now).

one issue I had was some very slight hum going to the bassbins, this was solved by using a balanced XLR connection as opposed to a standard RCA 1/4jack I was using before.

My initial reasoning to go active was I wanted to be able to get Solid state bass sound with tube mids and highs, at first I was not overly impressed with active amping vs passive, and the two sound characters didn't work well for me (sort of not here not there or maybe a phasing problem on the tube amp vs SS), so I turned to full SS now.

but after looking up at this site http://freerider.dyndns.org/anlage/LeCleach.htm , it was very easy to dial in the new calculations, and the improvement was well worth the effort, I owe the owner of this work a great deal of gratitude, I highly recommend following it to the letter.

another by product is the ability to try out different drivers tweeters and combinations, a feat that would be almost impractical using passives, (for example the k55 is easy because it has a more or less flat FR region, while other horn drivers respond like a hump, and need EQ'ing)

at one point I changed to bi amp with a titanium driver on a 511b horn with great results, still haven't decided how I prefer it, so now I can instantly A/B switch between tri and bi, in fact its very hard to tell the difference.

[Chris A]

but after looking up at this site http://freerider.dyndns.org/anlage/LeCleach.htm , it was very easy to dial in the new calculations, and the improvement was well worth the effort, I owe the owner of this work a great deal of gratitude, I highly recommend following it to the letter.

That is a very good discussion of the "crossover problem" that went by a month or so ago. This is why I advocate 2-way loudspeaker systems (like the Jubilee) over 3-ways. However, if due diligence is paid to the upper crossover in a 3-way system, then the effects of the "extra crossover" are minimized and the equivalent cost of the midrange and tweeter drivers may be lower than a full-range drivers like, for instance, TAD TD-4002s.

Thanks for the link, 6l6gc.

Chris

[Chris A]

Ok, I finally made a decision on triamping.

In my opinion, this is the single most effective step that you can take to improve the sound of your system (EDIT: ...short of buying better speakers or a better listening room). I think that you will really be impressed once you get everything dialed in like the discussion above.

Chris

[Rudy81]

I recently spent over a month tri-amping my Khorns. Bottom line, it is well worth the effort and learning curve. It can be a difficult process if you really want to get the best crossover combination you can. I used a K1 for the woofers (that amp rocks once you take care of the 'sleep circuit cutout problem), and two hafler amps for the mids and hi frequencies. If you are interested in some of the details, there is a very long thread on the subject here: http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/t/128607.aspx?PageIndex=1

I did experience some less than desired problems with the D75 amps I tried. They 'pop' when you turn them on and off. So, I sold them and got the Hafler amps.

I also came upon the LeCleach paper and used that as a blueprint to set my crossover. His settings with my Behringer DCX were the best results I could get. The sound field was amazing!

However, getting the three drivers just right is very difficult. I realized after a month of working on this, that two way is the better method as Chris mentioned. I am now in a two way Khorn configuration with the P.Audio drivers and horn. Actually, I am also about to change the Khron bass bin for my DBB DIY project based on JC's DBB design. I have yet to run tests on it, but should be running those this weekend.

Enjoy the process.

[erictye]

thanks for all the info. folks. It is muchly appreciated. My 2 d75a's should be in next week and this should definitely help the process. I also have a set of altec horns and some tube amps so I will be plenty busy for the next while. I will post my thoughts as things progress.

[Chris A]

did experience some less than desired problems with the D75 amps I tried. They 'pop' when you turn them on and off.

This isn't a problem for the Crown D-75A amplifiers that I'm using (bi-amped Jubilees and Heresy center). The "thud" on shutdown (only) is very mild--I have virtually no turn-on transients. I wonder if that was one of the improvements made on the D-75A over the D-75 design?

Why use the D-75As? The D-75As apparently have very low distortion--especially so in the low-power Class "A" region (i.e., they are Class AB amps).

Chris

[dtel]

did experience some less than desired problems with the D75 amps I tried. They 'pop' when you turn them on and off.

This isn't a problem for the Crown D-75A amplifiers that I'm using (bi-amped Jubilees and Heresy center). The "thud" on shutdown (only) is very mild--I have virtually no turn-on transients. I wonder if that was one of the improvements made on the D-75A over the D-75 design?

Why use the D-75As? The D-75As apparently have very low distortion--especially so in the low-power Class "A" region (i.e., they are Class AB amps).

Chris

I use the D 75's and they both have a thump when shutdown, one a little more than the other. 15 watts each at idol, I leave them on most of the time !

I think both models have the same amount of distortion and the same amount of power, I don't know what the difference is, but some of the A models does not have the 1/4 phono jack on the back anymore.

Both have been changed over the years, ONE of my D75's have a yellow power light over by the on-off knob, the other two does not, everything else is the same ?

[erictye]

hey chris,

just wondering if you are running caps in line with the tweet and mid? Also, another can of worms... specifically any suggestions on capacitors? I have read about the V-caps but ouch on the price. For this situation would it be worth it or any other recommendations.

[Chris A]

hey chris,

just wondering if you are running caps in line with the tweet and mid?

No caps - I'm running a two-way (Jubilee bass bin and K402/TAD TD-4002) The TADs can take a fair amount of power since they are currently handling everything from 400 Hz --> 20 KHz.

specifically any suggestions on capacitors?

I'd say that PWK said it all:

I'd recommend caps like the following, but there are a lot of folks feeding on the "expensive caps" bandwagen (or memeplex...).

Chris no- [bs]

[erictye]

LOL, that PWK sounds like he was one colourful character... but with a fine ear. Once again, thanks Chris.

[BLSamuel]

Whiskey bottles for dielectrics in capacitors. Maybe someone should test this. I'm sure there will be plenty of volunteers willing to empty said whiskey bottles.

p.s. Just what's a Klipscorn? (sorry I couldn't resist)

[Rudy81]

I ran caps for a while on my mid and tweeters. I ended up removing the caps for several reasons. First, they affected the performance of the lowest frequencies of each driver. I figured that out when I ran some measurement tests with and without caps. I had selected the caps over one octive lower than the lowest frequency sent to that driver. Several sites I found recommended one or two octaves lower in order to prevent affecting the sound of each driver. Frankly, that somewhat defeats the object of the caps to protect the drivers.

I purchased Solen caps and pretty much wasted the money.

Since I run without caps, I did not want any turn on or turn off pops and thuds.

[erictye]

Well folks, I hooked everything up today as a biamp and... I can definitely have some fun with this. A definite large improvement in the bass range. With the driverack pa there is almost too many options. Anybody have any good slope curves for the EQ? I am definitely going to have to educate myself on all the tweaks possible. I still think I will wind up going back to the Wright 3.5 monos for the tweeter and horn as the "sweetness" is gone but I do understand the d75 if I could properly tweak it.