Return to the realm of La Scala

[Marvel]

I changed taps on the autoformer and brought the midrange down a couple of db, and the whole balance on my LaScalas seems a lot better. I have plenty of bass, even for albums like Bela Fleck and the Flecktones.

There's a chart around here somewhere that gives the values for each tap.

Bruce

[Guest " "]

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[Lyons]

I'm the OP. I have these beauties in place (small listening room), in the corners but toed in a tad. They are quite gorgeous, with a quality of material and assembly better than any speaker I've seen. You cannot feel a seam at any junction of any of the pieces. Factory walnut colored lacquer and original grilles, all in mint shape. Boy I lucked out.

I will need to do something about the bass, but not what I'm seeing in this thread. The sub I'm using is fine for the frequencies below around 60 hz, but the upper bass (I'm guessing from around 200 - 400 Hz) is weird sounding, one note, distorted, headache inducing, etc.

Another issue: The squawker/tweeter combo is shrieking at me too. In the 10 years since I've had La Scalas did my hearing change that much? I really tightened up the screws on all drivers (BEC said in a post somewhere it was as effective as putty for damping horn ringing), and that seemed to help some.

I'm looking into the Bob Crites CT-125 tweeter replacement together with his 4500/A crossover replacement. Reduces the work the K55V has to do and improves the highs (and taps them down a bit as well - not a bad thing in my room). Clearly the incumbent crossovers need refreshing in any event, and the price for this combo is less than most drop in replacement crossovers. Any thoughts on this? I do have some primative room treatments in place, and will tweak and listen, listen and tweak...

I'm making it sound like I don't like the speakers... not at all! When things are dialed in, that spooky "you are there" thing that I remember so well is happening in a big way. I realized this in particular when I spun a Rolling Stone record I don't even like that much, It's Only Rock n Roll, and I kept thinking how incredible Charlie Watts was on every track. It's the La Scalas talking. I don't know why folks think they can't rock...

[Lyons]

Odessyrevolver, you asked about the difference between Cornwalls and La Scalas. Here's what I wrote on that six years ago:

I posted a little while back about the wonderful La Scalas I scored last
year, and how great they sound on my tube-based system with the rebuilt
A/AA crossovers from BEC. What wasn't so great was the size or the
color match of the veneer on the Scalas, as they looked in our house. So
when a near-mint set of OO (Oiled Oak) Cornwall IIs showed up on eBay
within driving distance from Austin Texas I grabbed em. All original,
perfect looking black grilles. Hooked them up and loved the sound.

As
anyone who is familiar with these two speakers might suspect, the bass
on the Cornwalls hit me immediately, and was fantastic. I appreciated
the new authority in bass drums and in the tone of piano music... The
balance of the sound is awesome. But I felt I was losing something at
the same time, in comparison to the Scalas.

Anyway, over the
next three months I swapped out the big Cornies for the even bigger
Scalas no fewer than four times. Just couldn't seem to make up my mind,
since these speakers sound so very different from one another. Hard to
believe they share so much technology. Could I make myself happy with
the rich deep bass and balance of the Cornwalls, especially with their
gorgeous appearance? Or did I just have to have the clarity and
"indescribable wow" of the Scalas? One thing for sure, with a new baby
on the way I couldn't afford to keep em both, and schlepping them in and
out of storage was getting old.

Finally I am there: The La
Scalas are permanently installed in my den, and I have some extrememly
nice 1986-vintage Cornie II's available for sale. (The scalas are
permanently there until I have corners appropriate for Khorns, that is).
I will take some pictures this weekend (which will require again
pulling them out of storage), since the finish on the veneer deserves to
be seen.

[Quiet_Hollow]

Lyons,

I wouldn't change a thing in the cabs as long as they are stock.

I've heard this song and dance about La Scalas not having enough bass, especially in comparison to other direct radiator cabs like KG2's, Cornwalls and horn cabs from other manufacturers.

The issue becomes quite apparent if you do the math. The La Scala bass bin is only on the horn down to 90-100 Hz, then runs as a bandpass-filtered sealed box down to around 50-60Hz depending on boundary loading. From 30-60Hz is full octave ( a lot of sub bass information) and that is were the La Scala's response is finally rolling off in half space. Not cool.

Large kettle drums, string bass, or pipe organs can certainly can duck out of the La Scala's bass range.

A direct radiating sub introduces too much distortion at the volume levels required to play nice with horn-loaded cabs, even a sealed one.

The solution is one of two things:

1. Bi-amp them

2. Buy or build a horn-loaded sub

Bi-amping the the bass bin requires good electronics to keep it sounding right. The crossover to the squawker at 400 Hz has to be maintained flat and in time, but then the response needs to be curved (EQ'd) below 100 Hz. Doing this would allow you to keep a SET or what ever your flavor powering the squawker and tweeter, and use an appropriate switching amp to put the spurs to the bass bin. They'll oblige just fine. There's a 15" down there for goodness sake.

The other solution is to turn the system into a 4-way by using a horn-loaded sub. You could build one or buy one. Integration is a little easier as the crossover point is at a significantly lower frequency and the handshake is a little more forgiving in the time domain. The downside there is the introduction of another cab into the room.

As far as them sounding screechy? What material are you playing? Vinyl, CD, Bakelite cylinders, Squeezebox?

Here's a video of my setup before I even had a chance to EQ it properly:

They are anything but harsh, even through YouTube. They are completely stock.

[Marvel]

The solution is one of two things:

1. Bi-amp them
2. Buy or build a horn-loaded sub

You forgot the third...

Port them and get them almost flat to about 30-32Hz.

[Lyons]

Nice vid! I play primarily vinyl, restored Thorens TD-124 matched with Shure V15vxm into a Bottlehead Seduction/C4S tube phono stage, McIntosh c33 preamp and Wright Audio Mono8 300B monoblocks. Not to come off likeTom Brennan, but there is something of a Skilsaw vibe about the mids/highs of these La Scalas. Again referring to Mr. Crites, he commented that some diaphragms on K55v's can fatigue over the decades, producing something like what I'm hearing.

Good info on the horn sub option... I'll look into it.

Chris

[tragusa3]

Congrats on your LaScala! They are nice looking.

I've got mine crossed over at 80hz to a pair of Danley Tapped Horn Subs, and I would have a hard time convincing myself to spend another dollar. For Theater use, it will simply leave your jaw on the ground. No lack of bass.

I had my LaScalas setup prior to room treatments, and must say that, to my ear, a fully treated room is necessary for these. You can't get away without it.

[Quiet_Hollow]

Lyons,

Noticed your Mc has onboard EQ. If you find the LaScala bottom end lacking, just dial up 7-10 dB on the 30Hz knob.

[edwinr]

I like to run my Belles full range. I have found that integration with a sub works way better if the sub's rolloff starts around 40Hz - not higher as some seem to like. By the time the sub reaches around 50 or 60Hz, it isn't outputting that much, thereby not interfering with the La Scala's beautiful horn loaded bass response. Another thing, I have heard some La Scala/Belle subwoofer combinations where the sub is just turned up way too loud, thus drowning out the poor La Scala's low frequency response. This is way uncool. The sub should be adjusted so that it extends the La Scala's low frequency response, not dominate it.

[Guest Anonymous]

Port them and get them almost flat to about 30-32Hz.

Is there a thread around somewhere about porting a la scala, i saw a mod somewhere that added some cu ft to the total at the bottom of the speaker, i'm not really interested in that, are there any other solutions?

Is it possible to just seal the top half of you la scala, and port the woofer into the top section adding some cu ft to this total?

My la scala's were ugly as hell when i go them, but they sounded awesome to me. i have a capable sub so, the fact that it doesnt go down past about 50 hz or so is not a big deal for me.

on another note, i put my signal generator onto my Heresy's and they will do about 45Hz before it drops like a rock. i will test my La scala's when they are done the restoration.

I would recommend that you switch the caps in the La Scala's. i did, and they sound great.

[Wrinkles]

Nice Accident Lyons!

There is just something about the immediacy of the bass through LaScalas. At one time I changed out the LaScala bass bins for a pair of the EV Sentry IVA bass bins and loved the lower bass for a few weeks. Then realized what I was missing. Back in went the LaScala bass bins.

Your LaScalas look great!

[djk]

"Is it possible to just seal the top half of you la scala, and port the
woofer into the top section adding some cu ft to this total?"

Yes, that was the original idea for the vented LaScala mod.

I did the original mod on the LSI with the K43 woofer. According to the simulation in Hornresp it adds about 7dB of bass in the30hz~40hz region. There are some pictures around the forum with the ports out the back in the top section. I think most of the people here that have done it use the riser base method, it also gets the mid and HF closer to ear level. All the ones I have done have been ports out the back in the top section.

(image by Marvel)

[Johnny's Jill]

I'm looking into the Bob Crites CT-125 tweeter replacement together with his 4500/A crossover replacement. Reduces the work the K55V has to do and improves the highs (and taps them down a bit as well - not a bad thing in my room).

The squawker/tweeter combo is shrieking at me too. In the 10 years since I've had La Scalas did my hearing change that much?

I just went through this recently, and had the same impressions. My prefernce is using Bobs AA, or Bobs kit to rebuild your original AA's or ALK universal.

The mostsignifigant improvement is changing the midhorns.

I used the Altec, daves fastrac and a knockoff oris horn. all of them were a big upgrade to the original. The harshness all but dissapeared.

I still prefer the bass of my cornwall, so I modified them with the fastrac mid horns, and built some diy alk crossovers. This is by far the most pleasing mod I have done yet.

Craig 73

[Johnny's Jill]

I forgot about the DJK mod.

The ported lascala mod is excellent. I can believe how much better the bass blended. It seemed to retain punch of the lascala and the response of the corwall.

Really a win win.

Craig 73