jwilson55 Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 I have a pair of 1984 Khorns I just picked up a few days ago. They have the AK-2 crossovers and I know they should be upgraded because of their age? Anyone tried this crossvoer / tweeter combination, and if so what is your opinion? I have also looked into the ALK's. I'm just trying to decide which way I should go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 I have used this B&K crossover and CT-125 tweeters in my Khorn and thought they sounded better, to my ears, than anything else I have used. have also used the ALK crossover and Beyma tweeters with ALK tweeter attenuator (a cute and handy little rascal) which sounded very good, but I preferred the combo above. The first time I played the preferred combo, my wife said, "wow, what did you do? this sounds great!" made my day. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 JW, The reason the 4500 Hz crossover sounds good is because the K400 squawker horn is so bad. It diverts the range between 4500 and 6000 Hz to the tweeter. Do the crossover mod later and replace the squawker horn first! Once you do that you will want to keep the 6000 Hz crossover. Al K. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwilson55 Posted February 7, 2011 Author Share Posted February 7, 2011 I had some time on my hands to sit and listen today. After listening to these for a couple of hours, I have decided to hold off on any upgrades for a few weeks. I have Cornwall's that have been re-capped with a kit from Crites. I know I'm not comparing apples to apples but the Khorns which have had no upgrades at all sound amazing in a side by side comparison. The Khorns are new to me. I've never had a pair until now. I think it would be best to invest in several hours of listening before I do anything. Thanks for the info! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny's Jill Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 I think it would be best to invest in several hours of listening before I do anything. Great plan, enjoy those baby's for a bit before you make a change. Then take a good look at a mid horn upgrade. I prefer the ALK's to the A-4500. Really no comparison, but I replaced the K-400 years ago. I need to get over to gothovers place to hear the oval horns with the faitl pro driver. Craig 73 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tromprof Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 I have done this exact modification (B&K Sound Type A/4500 Crossover / CT-125 Tweeters) and am very pleased with the results. I improves the overall sound of the Klipschorn without altering it beyond recognition. I for one am happy with the midrange of the k-horn, and found the A/4500 just helped it out a little bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwilson55 Posted February 8, 2011 Author Share Posted February 8, 2011 I have done this exact modification (B&K Sound Type A/4500 Crossover / CT-125 Tweeters) and am very pleased with the results. I improves the overall sound of the Klipschorn without altering it beyond recognition. I for one am happy with the midrange of the k-horn, and found the A/4500 just helped it out a little bit. Thanks for your input. I am very pleased at this point with the midrange. I'm not one to listen at wall shattering levels. I'm not jumping right now but this is the way I am leaning, at least so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyDover Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 >K400 squawker horn is so bad Al, I really hate to say anything but I've read in so many different places that you comment how bad the K-400 horn is. It definitely isn't as bad as you say it is. I enjoy the sound of my Klipschorn's and it's pretty smooth and musical. It's the Klipsch signature sound! I don't find it bad at all, and I do not get headaches from it! I have some cornscala's with the Goldwood GM-450PB horn, very similar characteristics to your offered horn and yes, it's more open, relaxed, and not as pinched down sounding but the K-400 has it's own unique sound that still sounds nice. It's just that every time I read your comment on how bad the K-400 horn is, I just shake my head in such disbelief because when I listen to mine and often think how good they sound! Really, the K-400 horn does not sound BAD! If it sounded that bad, there wouldn't be so many people who have enjoyed that sound for so many years! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny's Jill Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 If it sounded that bad, there wouldn't be so many people who have enjoyed that sound for so many years! Once you have heard a wood tractrix there is really no going back to the K-400. The K-400 although is liveable is certainly the weakest link in the KHorn. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tromprof Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 >K400 squawker horn is so bad Al, I really hate to say anything but I've read in so many different places that you comment how bad the K-400 horn is. It definitely isn't as bad as you say it is. I enjoy the sound of my Klipschorn's and it's pretty smooth and musical. It's the Klipsch signature sound! I don't find it bad at all, and I do not get headaches from it! I have some cornscala's with the Goldwood GM-450PB horn, very similar characteristics to your offered horn and yes, it's more open, relaxed, and not as pinched down sounding but the K-400 has it's own unique sound that still sounds nice. It's just that every time I read your comment on how bad the K-400 horn is, I just shake my head in such disbelief because when I listen to mine and often think how good they sound! Really, the K-400 horn does not sound BAD! If it sounded that bad, there wouldn't be so many people who have enjoyed that sound for so many years! Ditto! I think this is a case of the perfect being the enemy of the good. I myself have tweaked my K-horns using Bob Crites' products, but the K-horns were pretty damn good to begin with. Like all things, the k-400 is not perfect, but for many of us it is good enough (for the time being). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny's Jill Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 I have done this exact modification (B&K Sound Type A/4500 Crossover / CT-125 Tweeters) and am very pleased with the results. I improves the overall sound of the Klipschorn without altering it beyond recognition. I dont see your logic, by doing what you have done you changed the hf horn, the hf driver, the crossover, and crossover points. I am 100% for mods, tinkering etc, but is seems to me that replacing the K-400 horn with with a good tractrix is less intrusive, because you are using the original crossover point and all of the original drivers. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tromprof Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 I am not against "upgrades." What I have a problem with is a blanket statement about how "bad" the K-400 sounds. Yes, it can be improved (as all things), but it sounds pretty good as is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny's Jill Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 quote: tomprof "I am not against "upgrades." What I have a problem with is a blanket statement about how "bad" the K-400 sounds. Yes, it can be improved (as all things), but it sounds pretty good as is." . I understand what you are saying, and I do not disagree, the KHorn is certainly a world class speaker without mods. I have done this exact modification (B&K Sound Type A/4500 Crossover / CT-125 Tweeters) and am very pleased with the results. I improves the overall sound of the Klipschorn without altering it beyond recognition. This however is a contradiction. It appears that you are implying that it is ok to change the crossovers, the crossover frequency, the HF horns and drivers, and that is ok , but once you change the midhorn "you are altering it beyond recognition." If this is not what you mean please clarify. Maybe I am reading too far into this. I tend to do that. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwilson55 Posted February 20, 2011 Author Share Posted February 20, 2011 I have done this exact modification (B&K Sound Type A/4500 Crossover / CT-125 Tweeters) and am very pleased with the results. I improves the overall sound of the Klipschorn without altering it beyond recognition. I dont see your logic, by doing what you have done you changed the hf horn, the hf driver, the crossover, and crossover points. I am 100% for mods, tinkering etc, but is seems to me that replacing the K-400 horn with with a good tractrix is less intrusive, because you are using the original crossover point and all of the original drivers. Craig Keep in mind I have 1984 models with the original crossovers (AK-2) with no upgrades. My original gameplan was to upgrade the crossovers with a kit from Crites. I have read a few post where folks suggest replacing the AK-2 instead of upgrading it. Cost is a factor. I don't have an unlimited budget to throw at this project. I have read the K400 struggles from 4000hz to 6000hz. This being the case, It would appear to me that moving the crossover from 6K down to 4.5K would only improve this issue. My understanding is the stock K77 tweeters can't handle the lower frequency, therefore they are replaced with the CT125's. I'm not saying I will never replace the K400's. I am one of those who don't think they sound bad. I may at some point decide to replace those horns. At least for now, this seems to be a logical way of upgrading the crossovers and improving at least some of the so called "bad" sound of the K400's. As far a the cost goes, I can do this upgrade with parts from a fellow forum member for the same price as upgrading the AK-2 crossovers to AK-3's. Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny's Jill Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 Keep in mind I have 1984 models with the original crossovers (AK-2) with no upgrades. My original gameplan was to upgrade the crossovers with a kit from Crites. I have read a few post where folks suggest replacing the AK-2 instead of upgrading it. Cost is a factor. I don't have an unlimited budget to throw at this project. I have read the K400 struggles from 4000hz to 6000hz. This being the case, It would appear to me that moving the crossover from 6K down to 4.5K would only improve this issue. My understanding is the stock K77 tweeters can't handle the lower frequency, therefore they are replaced with the CT125's. I'm not saying I will never replace the K400's. I am one of those who don't think they sound bad. I may at some point decide to replace those horns. At least for now, this seems to be a logical way of upgrading the crossovers and improving at least some of the so called "bad" sound of the K400's. As far a the cost goes, I can do this upgrade with parts from a fellow forum member for the same price as upgrading the AK-2 crossovers to AK-3's. Joe Joe, I dont have any issues with the modification path you have chosen. I was just trying to make the point: If you change the midhorn then you dont have to change the tweeter and crossover points, and in my opinion it will result in a greater improvment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny's Jill Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 As far a the cost goes, I can do this upgrade with parts from a fellow forum member for the same price as upgrading the AK-2 crossovers to AK-3's.Joe, in this situation where you got a great price on upgrades, you are making the right decision for yourself which is perfect. Craig 73 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyDover Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 Johnny5, I understand what you are saying but I have my Klipschorn's still original as Klipsch made them. Why, because they still sound very good to me and I listen to them from time to time. I have a good tractrix horn on my Cornscala that I do enjoy too but the K-400 is not as bad as Al always tries to make it out to be, if it were.... I would have never bought my Klipschorn's. I do know some that prefer the K-400 horn and didn't like the change, to each their own. To some the K-400 isn't the weakest link, and it's not a BAD headache maker as Al has said. I listen to mine for hours and it sounds quite good and I get no headaches. Anyone who wants to tweak and improve as they wish, so be it but the K-400 is not a bad horn to begin with!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny's Jill Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 Johnny5, I understand what you are saying but I have my Klipschorn's still original as Klipsch made them. Why, because they still sound very good to me and I listen to them from time to time. Nothing wrong with that, and admittedly the K-400 is the Klipsch signature sound that brought Klipsh into the spotlight. I have a good tractrix horn on my Cornscala that I do enjoy too but the K-400 is not as bad as Al always tries to make it out to be Nice, and certainly no argument here. To some the K-400 isn't the weakest link, and it's not a BAD headache maker as Al has said. I still think the K-400 is the weakest link, but can sound good in its original form with some decent gear driving them, at moderate levels. Anyone who wants to tweak and improve as they wish Absolutely. K-400 is not a bad horn to begin with!!!! The K-400 certainly not the worst horn I have ever heard, and deserves credit and respect. I certainly would not call it junk, but would not use it either. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwilson55 Posted February 20, 2011 Author Share Posted February 20, 2011 Thanks to all for your input. One thing about this forum, you may not always hear what you want, but you will get the pros and cons. I'll post again once I start my upgrades. I plan on replacing the tweeters first, listen for a few days, then proceed with the crossovers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KanedaK Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 I always loved my LaScalas, but the very very best upgrade I ever did to my system is to get rid of the K400 and use some EV SM120A horns. I too could never go back to the K400. Better tweeters help too: I use Beyma CP25. Big improvement. Sound is more evenly sprayed in the listening room, more spacious, more detailed, and smoother. Of course my LaScala were ugly as hell when I bought them so building another top bin to hold the new mid and tweeter was not an issue. i'm awaiting for new crossovers; when they'll sound really at their best, I'll take care of the cosmetic issue ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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