njcanuck Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 Seems a lot of people are interested in a comparison between these two speakers. Since I just happen to have recently acquired a set of each, [] I thought I’d share my impressions. First a disclaimer: I am no awwdeowfile! I did not A/B these speakers in the same room. I have one set in my family room and the other set in my office. I will not be putting them together in the same room any time soon as they weigh a ton (so don’t ask). Also, this is not a completely fair comparison as the Chorus I’s have been upgraded. Source equipment is a Logitech Squeezebox Touch running 16/48k flac files through a Harmon Kardon PM665 integrated amp. The HK PM665 is a twin powered, solid state, high current, 100wpc amp from the mid 80s. It is very sweet with Klipsch speakers. The Chorus I’s are 1987 vintage. They have been upgraded with Crites titanium tweeter diaphragms and crossover capacitors. The Chorus II’s are 93 vintage and are currently 100% stock. I listened to a few of my favorite artists to evaluate the differences: Dire Straits, Eric Clapton, Norah Jones and Alison Krauss. The comparison: Most noticeable is the extended bass on the Chorus II’s. The extra 6Hz lower extension can really be heard! If you want bass, you want the II’s! On the other end, the titanium tweeters on the Chorus I’s are a big improvement over the stock Chorus II’s (which sound like the stock Chorus I’s). The highs are extremely clear and well defined. The mids are, well, equal but different. The tractrix horn in the II’s sounds a bit more refined / smoother while the exponential horn in the I’s is a little sharper / edgier. Sometimes I prefer one, sometimes the other depending on what I am listening to. I really enjoy both – the similarities are far greater that the differences. Future upgrades: The II’s will get titanium tweeter diaphragms – these are just too good not to do! The II’s will also get a Crites crossover recap. This recap made a huge improvement to the highs and mids in the I’s. The old caps produced significant distortion in the midrange – the recap cleaned everything up like new! I don’t expect the same improvement from recapping the II’s as their stock caps likely haven’t deteriorated to the same degree and there currently is no distortion. I think I’ll also experiment with some port tubes in the I’s to see if I can bring out the bass a little more. I’m also negotiating for a pair of McIntosh MC60 monoblocks so I hope to report back soon on tube sound. Hope this helps a few people. Cheers, Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Chi-town Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 Order a pair of Klipsch K53 Titanium Squaker Diaphragms as much improvement on the mids as replacing the tweets with Bob's titanium. I have a pair of forte II with Bob's new networks, titanium tweets, and Klipsch K53 titanium midrange diaphragms and the results are beyond belief! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njcanuck Posted April 27, 2011 Author Share Posted April 27, 2011 They're that good, eh? I would need for K61s but I've heard that titanium mids are pretty hard to get. Were you able to buy yours direct from Klipsch? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski Bum Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 Order a pair of Klipsch K53 Titanium Squaker Diaphragms as much improvement on the mids as replacing the tweets with Bob's titanium. I have a pair of forte II with Bob's new networks, titanium tweets, and Klipsch K53 titanium midrange diaphragms and the results are beyond belief! Klipsch customer service told me that the K-61 (stock) and K-53-Ti do not have matching specs, and is not simply a swappable part. Did you have Bob customize your crossover networks for the K-53 driver? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Chi-town Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 Not sure who you spoke with at Klipsch, but I delt with Steve Philips who is one of the most knowledgeable on the Heritage and Extended Heritage line. According to Steve the drivers are identical, other than the diaphragm used phenolic vs. titanium. The K53 TI drivers are used in both the Heresy III, and Cornwall III. If you decide to go with buy the drivers and titanium diaphragms only $2-$4 more per pair than just the diaphragms themselves. Sound is amazing to my ears, but everything with audio is subjective. As far as Bob C building new networks aimed at the K53TI driver, no they are his standard build. There is no option for the titanium tweeters, so INMHO this should work for the mids as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 Read a thread here somewhere that 6 - 7 inch long vents for the Chorus were supposed to work well. Worth searching for. Perhaps someone here will remember the thread name. Best regards Moray James. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njcanuck Posted April 27, 2011 Author Share Posted April 27, 2011 Thanks Moray. I've seen that thread, too. I also read another one that said the tubes must be ABS and that PCB won't work. Any idea what that's about? I thought pretty much any tube material would work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adoremusic Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 I personally prefer the I's over the II's because of the tractrix horn which I find it a little echoey at times. A bit better bass extension on the I's would be nice though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockhound Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 Thanks for posting this comparison, I've often wondered what improvements (if any) were done to the second gen Chorus. I demoed a set of 2nd gen's a few mths back and I was impressed with the midrange and bass that they produced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 As far as I know a reflex vent's dimensions are all that really matter so long as the vent is smooth inside and end termination is smooth which is why youu will see flaired vent terminations to make the movement of air in and out of the vent less turbulent. Any material will do as long as it get the job done. The vent should be strong enough not to get into flexural modes. Cardboard mailing tubes get used because they are inexpensive and also because tubes are inherently strong. Hope this helps, I have no idea about the comment regarding material types. Best regards Moray James. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njcanuck Posted April 28, 2011 Author Share Posted April 28, 2011 Moray, that pretty much jives with my knowledge on the subject. I think I'll start with some mailing tubes since they are easy and cheap (free) to experiment with and then move to a more polished flared setup once the dimensions are dialed in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njcanuck Posted April 28, 2011 Author Share Posted April 28, 2011 I personally prefer the I's over the II's because of the tractrix horn which I find it a little echoey at times. Interesting. If anything, I have found the opposite. Even then, I suspect the room dynamics more than the squawkers. Of course, our ears may vary ... [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njcanuck Posted April 30, 2011 Author Share Posted April 30, 2011 Installed the titanium tweets and recapped the crossovers on the Chorus II's yesterday. Results are pretty much as expected. The new tweets are already singing and will only get better as they break in. It's hard to tell if there is any audible impact from recapping the crossovers as I did them at the same time as the tweets. At least I know that I'm good for another 20+ years. Not much room to play on those crossovers - I think they might be worse to work on than the CI's, if that's possible! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njcanuck Posted May 12, 2011 Author Share Posted May 12, 2011 Order a pair of Klipsch K53 Titanium Squaker Diaphragms as much improvement on the mids as replacing the tweets with Bob's titanium. Titanium mid diaphragms are on order. After reading of your and Set12's experiences with them, I just have to try them! [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njcanuck Posted May 20, 2011 Author Share Posted May 20, 2011 Well the titanium mid diaphragms are installed. I'm NOT liking them yet! Very bright, brittle, edgy - hard on the ears. [8o|] I sure hope these suckers improve with age. Maybe I should have stuck with my old phenolic diaphrams - they were as smooth as silk. I'll give these some time to see if they improve. John, Set12, did yours require a substantial burn in? If yes, how long? For those that are interested, the diaphrams are indeed the ones listed for the K53 driver used in the new Cornwall III and Heresy III. They are a perfect fit in the Chorus II K61 driver. The cost is currently $78 each and for $6 more you can get the whole driver (I was expecting just the magnet assembly, but they sent the horn as well, so you get the complete driver for $84). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adoremusic Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 I've read that Bob Crites doesn't think much of the titanium mids either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Chi-town Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 They are the same mids/drivers currently used in the Heresy III & Cornwall III. I spoke with Bob and his favorite speaker's that he owns are the Heresy III. Also, the only difference between the original mid driver in a forte II, and the K-53TI drivers is the titanium diaphragm. Otherwise "Identical" in all other aspects. At the end of the day, I let my ears tell me what sounds good, rather than just other peoples opinions. Remember no one hears exactly the same thing from the same source......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njcanuck Posted May 20, 2011 Author Share Posted May 20, 2011 John, did yours require much time to break in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Chi-town Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 Not much at all, could hear the difference almost immediately. I would say no more tha 8-10 hours of listening time for full burn in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njcanuck Posted May 27, 2011 Author Share Posted May 27, 2011 Time for an update: I have about 60 hours on the Ti Squawkers now and they have settled in very nicely (or maybe my ears have). Contrary to others experiences, mine took about 30 hours to open up with the first 20 bordering on unbearable. Now they are really superb - worth the wait. They are still a bit brighter than the stock phenloics which IMO is neither good nor bad. As with many aspects of this hobby, my liking of the 'new' sound varies to some degree with the music that I am listening to. Overall, the clarity, detail and transparency are noticably superior to stock. Thanks to all who encouraged me to spend more money and head down this path. [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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