Upgrade from RF-3 II system to RF-7 II?

[DrJazz]

About 8 or 9 years ago, I bought an RF-3 II based system (with matching RC-3 II and RS-3 speakers) after some in-home auditions. I've been mostly happy with them, but I've recently become less than satisfied with their performance.

Before I continue, let me first mention that my room is far from ideal. It is about 13 by 20, with all the walls being solid pine paneling. In addition, the floor is hardwood. My system is powered by a Rotel RMB-1095 amp, fed by a Denon AVR-3808ci.

My complaint with my RF-3's in this room is: a) the top-end (high frequencies) are just a little too grating by times; and the mid-range and bass seems kind of weak. In the past month, I've had in-home auditions of Paradigm Studio 60's (v5) and Focal Chorus 816v's. The Paradigms seemed to have the aggressive top-end I've become accustomed to with the Klipsch, and their mid-range and bass was overwhelming. But they sounded even more fatiguing than the RF-3's (again, my room has a lot to do with the sound). Just really loud, boomy, and difficult to tame. The Focal's were just lovely, what an incredibly pleasant speaker. Nice aggressive top-end without being harsh, and a nice (not great) bass and mid-range. To me, they had a wonderfully sweet and smooth characteristic. But they just weren't "live" like my RF-3's are. There was no excitement - they left me wanting more.

So, now I don't know what to do. I have absolutely lusted after the RF-7's for years, but I am unable to hear them locally, either in a showroom or in my home. I'm uneasy ordering the system only to find that they are not the upgrade I'm after. I realize non of you can guarantee that I'll be ecstatic with them, but perhaps you can offer an opinion on a couple of questions:

1. Compared to the RF-3 II, and used almost exclusively for home theater (movies and TV), would you figure there would be an appreciable increase in bass and mid-range "presence"? Keep in mind that I have a decent Paradigm DSP-3400 subwoofer which would still be doing most of the bass heavy-lifting. I'm not looking for a louder speaker, just one with a more sense of "power" at lower volumes, perhaps.

2. I understand that the new RF-7 II series is a bit smoother than the previous generation. Again, compared to the RF-3 II, would you expect the top-end to be a little (not a lot) less harsh?

3. Unfortunately, my room demands that I keep the speakers tight against the front wall, with only a few inches of breathing room. This wasn't a problem with the RF-3's nor the Focal 816's. However, I'm worried that the mighty RF-7s will sound unacceptably "boomy" in a similar placement. Should I be worried, or are they a bit forgiving in such less-than-ideal conditions?

If you've read this far, thank you. [] And I would appreciate any advice and opinions your experience with these things might offer.

Many thanks,

DrJazz

[cornfedksboy]

I can't offer too much advice, but there have been three generational "evolutions" since you purchased the RF-3 IIs, and all have worked hard towards smooting out the high end without loosing the detail and emotion that has made Klipsch the popular speaker we all admire. Additionally, the RF-7 II is in a different league than your RF-3 II. It is made with a real hard wood veneer and has upgraded internal components that will add even more to the overall sound quality. Also, the RC-64 II will be a huge improvement in your center channel and the RS-62 IIs will greatly improve the surround sound effects. If you were only to upgrade the mains, I believe that you would have a massive improvement in the mids and the decreased high-end harshness that you seek. The whole system would be a quantum leap, with the RC-64 II really adding to the mid-range sound.

If you truely seek great mid-range speakers that also have a great high end and tons of bass, there is no substitute for a 3-way design. The Cornwall III may be exactly what you are looking for, and it's at close to the same price point. Other brands, including Klipsch owned Energy, also offer great 3-way speakers.

Something to think about.

[CECAA850]

Welcome to the forum.

It would be hard to imagine any speaker sounding great it that room with no treatments. If it were me and my room I'd try some rugs or wall coverings or something to break up the reflections. If that's absolutely out, I'd buy a receiver with Audyssey, ARC, or the like and let it try to tame the room. It's not like room treatments, but it would be better than what you currently have. I'd hate to spend money on new speakers and put them in an acousticaly crappy room. You're wasting your money.

Carl

[BluBitRates]

I have that same sub! I also have the rf-7ii. I started with the rf-82. The rf-7ii were like taking a blanket off of the rf-82s. Much clearer. I did not find the rf-82s harsh or fatiguing nor do i find the rf-7ii that way. I would suggest you give the rf-7ii as much breathing room as possible, every little bit more you can give them will help assuming you do really have them snug against the wall. Yeah you may want to look into a huge area rug and some wall treatments. I have always lusted after the studio 100s and the signature paradigms and thought they sounded pretty good too (i heard the studio 60s). With the rf-3ii i do think you have some room to upgrade if thats what you are after.

[elitedemo]

rf3ii to rf7ii would be a very worthy upgrade, i think the rc64ii and the rs62ii alone would make your previous speakers look like antiques while watching movies, not sure recommended distance from a wall with rf7ii's but youll want a little breathing room, worst case just cut start smashing walls to fit them in

[CECAA850]

3ii's to 7ii's is most certainly an improvement. Wether or not he'd realize the improvement in that room is debateable.

[Heritage_Head]

About 8 or 9 years ago, I bought an RF-3 II based system (with matching RC-3 II and RS-3 speakers) after some in-home auditions. I've been mostly happy with them, but I've recently become less than satisfied with their performance.

Before I continue, let me first mention that my room is far from ideal. It is about 13 by 20, with all the walls being solid pine paneling. In addition, the floor is hardwood. My system is powered by a Rotel RMB-1095 amp, fed by a Denon AVR-3808ci.

My complaint with my RF-3's in this room is: a) the top-end (high frequencies) are just a little too grating by times; and the mid-range and bass seems kind of weak. In the past month, I've had in-home auditions of Paradigm Studio 60's (v5) and Focal Chorus 816v's. The Paradigms seemed to have the aggressive top-end I've become accustomed to with the Klipsch, and their mid-range and bass was overwhelming. But they sounded even more fatiguing than the RF-3's (again, my room has a lot to do with the sound). Just really loud, boomy, and difficult to tame. The Focal's were just lovely, what an incredibly pleasant speaker. Nice aggressive top-end without being harsh, and a nice (not great) bass and mid-range. To me, they had a wonderfully sweet and smooth characteristic. But they just weren't "live" like my RF-3's are. There was no excitement - they left me wanting more.

So, now I don't know what to do. I have absolutely lusted after the RF-7's for years, but I am unable to hear them locally, either in a showroom or in my home. I'm uneasy ordering the system only to find that they are not the upgrade I'm after. I realize non of you can guarantee that I'll be ecstatic with them, but perhaps you can offer an opinion on a couple of questions:

1. Compared to the RF-3 II, and used almost exclusively for home theater (movies and TV), would you figure there would be an appreciable increase in bass and mid-range "presence"? Keep in mind that I have a decent Paradigm DSP-3400 subwoofer which would still be doing most of the bass heavy-lifting. I'm not looking for a louder speaker, just one with a more sense of "power" at lower volumes, perhaps.

2. I understand that the new RF-7 II series is a bit smoother than the previous generation. Again, compared to the RF-3 II, would you expect the top-end to be a little (not a lot) less harsh?

3. Unfortunately, my room demands that I keep the speakers tight against the front wall, with only a few inches of breathing room. This wasn't a problem with the RF-3's nor the Focal 816's. However, I'm worried that the mighty RF-7s will sound unacceptably "boomy" in a similar placement. Should I be worried, or are they a bit forgiving in such less-than-ideal conditions?

If you've read this far, thank you. And I would appreciate any advice and opinions your experience with these things might offer.

Many thanks,

DrJazz

I’ve had the rf-7ii close to the back wall and about a foot away can’t really tell much difference. The new horn technology in the rf-7ii is taken from the Palladium Series. “Titanium tweeter with linear travel suspension—trickle-down technology from our flagship Palladium Series”. The high end is crystal clear with zero harshness the midrange is very clean large and real sounding (not artificial sounding like so many speakers are) the bass even with no sub will kick your chest! The sound from the new 7s is just amazing it’s the type of speaker where you can see yourself never buying another pair of main speakers. Here are a few small reviews to them.

http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=en&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dhttp://www.areadvd.de/hardware/2011/klipsch_reference_5_1.shtml%26hl%3Den%26rlz%3D1R2PRFA_enUS406%26prmd%3Divns&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=de&u=http://www.areadvd.de/hardware/2010/klipsch_rf7_2.shtml&usg=ALkJrhgDWCFLjatl8nsTKXcsv4fW2ajNbwhttp://www.chuckhawks.com/klipsch_RF-7-II.htm

[Heritage_Head]

There are two different reviews in that mess but here is the 2^nd one just in case

http://www.chuckhawks.com/klipsch_RF-7-II.htm

[SuBXeRo]

I basically did your upgrade just to the older 7's. Thus far i went from the 3's to the 5's to the 7's. My listening space is very small, about 10 feet wide by 10 feet deep. he 7's so far are lacking in performance in my space because they dont have enough room to breathe. The larger drivers bring a much bigger sound to your environment,. Things sound much fuller. This is the main reason why i am keeping them. I dont find them as musical as the RF-5's but for tv and movies, the broader sound is much welcomed. The sound will open up when i get a larger space. I have mine pulled about 8-10 inches from the wall and its a big difference from having it almost butted up agaisnt the wall. They need to be out a bit to properly breathe. I have the older 7's so i dont know if the newer 7's are similar to this.

Since your space is so reflective, i'd say its very difficult to say what will sound good in there. You will most likely find that more open sound can be found with speakers that have larger drivers. As suggested above, you may want to explore some used heritage from craigslist. I havent heard them in person but iw ould think that a pair of cornwalls would have an open authotive sound for you. I have a pair of heresy I's that i found to be less harsh and more neutral sounding than the rest of the reference series. Its a different sound and i like it. The heresys just lack in bass. The cornwalls on the other hand should deal enough bass for you though

[DrJazz]

Thank you everyone for your responses. I appreciate the time you took to offer your advice and insights. At this point, I am heavily leaning towards ordering an RF-7 II system, even though I will not be able to realize its full potential in my room. I figure it will at least be an improvement over my existing system.

If and when I do decide to take the plunge, I'll be sure to post the results here.

Cheers,

DrJazz

[SuBXeRo]

if you have the funds to make the purchase and you can truly justify spending the money and will make you happy, it can't hurt. The system you already have is a wonderful one. I only upgraded because i was able to do it at a price i wanted to pay and through resale, i will basically pay 0-300-400 for a rf-7 5.0. The biggest perk to the upgrade will be the "bigger" more room filling sound. As far as output volume, they are all in the same realm, most people can't blast it loud enough to blow the drivers because it would be insanely loud.

Take the plunge and let us know! I would also suggest taking a look at some other brands of speakers out there as well, just to make sure that klipsch is the brand you want to stick with. I happen to like the sound of energy speakers and mirage and b&w and psb. KEF's are great, a bit on the bright side the surround system i heard, especially at higher volumes but damn, the sound was so clean and crisp.

[CHASLS2]

I went from SF3's to RF82's to RF63's, then to the RF7's. Mine are in a bedroom around 14 x15.

It was a big jump from the SF3's to the 82's and another big jump from the RF82's to the 63's.

The 7's were not much of a jump up from the RF63's.

[DrJazz]

Well, I did it. My local dealer gave me what I considered an excellent price, so I'm now waiting for my pair of RF-7 II's, RC-64 II, and pair of RS-62 II's to arrive (all in black). If I'm super-lucky, they'll be here by the end of the week.

I've been waiting 10 years for these babies - I can't wait! []

I'll post my impressions of them once I get them for anyone who might be interested.

Thanks again for everyone's replies to my original post.

Cheers,

DrJazz

[cornfedksboy]

Congrats on the upgrade!! Don't forget to add some accoustic treatments for increased enjoyment!

[Heritage_Head]

I went from SF3's to RF82's to RF63's, then to the RF7's. Mine are in a bedroom around 14 x15.

It was a big jump from the SF3's to the 82's and another big jump from the RF82's to the 63's.

The 7's were not much of a jump up from the RF63's.

Wow that’s awesome and I know how excited you are when I ordered mine I had the rf-64ii already but I bought the rf-7ii and rs-62ii and had to wait like a week. Was so hard to focus at work just day dreaming everyday was like forever. Can’t wait to too see pics but ill share a few just to rub it in []

[Heritage_Head]

Lol forgot how this works

[Heritage_Head]

2

[Heritage_Head]

3

[DrJazz]

Those are some very nice pics, RH. You have some sweet gear and a nice room!

Well, I picked up my system on Thursday and have been listening to these new speakers several hours each day since then. I was initially impressed with how well packed they were, and the build and finish quality. I really like the heavy "copper" feet on the RF-7's. :-) And the veneer is very high-quality.

Before I convey my impressions of the sound of the new speaker system, note that I have re-run the Audyssey room-correction system on my Denon AVR-3808ci, and that I have turned off all its infernal Dynamic-EQ nonsense. Also note that, as a character trait, I am notoriously impossible to please.

So, regarding the sound, the system has not turned out to be the auditory utopia I was hoping for - at least to my flawed ears. The sound is VERY different from my RF-3 system. If you'll recall, what I was looking for was a slight softening of the high-end (I found my RF-3's to be just a little too bright at times) and a generous "filling in" of the bass and mid-range. On the last count, the new system surely delivers. There is a strength of sound and presence of power that is exactly what I was looking for. Especially impressive is the new strength and immersiveness of the surround speakers. What is missing, though, is what I would call the "aggressive high-frequency clarity" that I, personally, have come to associate as a hallmark of the Klipsch sound.

I was looking for a "slight" softening of the top-end frequencies, but this system sounds like Klipsch made these speakers far too mellow. Voices and dialog in movie soundtracks used to be very much "in your face" and with a lot of "crystal-clear" punch. The RC-64 II has mellowed this out so much, I find myself straining to hear what people are saying. Well, perhaps "straining" is too strong a word, but voices used to be so incredibly clear to me with the RC-3, and now I have this BEHEMOTH RC-64 II (holy hell is it ever huge) that can't seem to match it. Oh sure, voices might sound more "sweet", natural, and balanced, but to my ears something is just missing. I keep wondering if the tweeter isn't broken in the RC-64 (it WAS just pushed out by a couple of millimeters when I unpacked the speaker - I just nudged it back in a little), but I'm sure the speaker would sound absolutely terrible if it was. (Curiously, though, as a counter-point to my impressions of voice clarity, my wife finds voices BETTER and more understandable with the RC-64. In fact, she loves the new system all-around. Just goes to show you can't please all the people all the time, I guess.)

Additionally, the "excitement" that I often felt at certain points in movies because of the Klipsch dynamics seems to be gone. Recently, I've been using Tron: Legacy as a reference disc - it has an immensely engaging soundtrack. Now, the bass of this soundtrack is just stunning with the new speakers. But, take for instance the scene where Sam Flynn is being "outfitted" with his Tron costume. With the old system, you could "feel" the click-clack-click of the shoes as the ladies walked back and forth. I mean it was like "electric"! Now, it's still there, but no excitement. And what soon follows - the roar of the crowd at the games, while much more powerful, balanced, and yes, easier to listen to, is just a little less satisfying at the same time.

In short, the new system seems to have taken away the sharp dynamics of my old RF-3's. Which, I admit, I both adored AND cursed. I have had a few friends tell me that I have to give some time for my ears to become "re-trained" for the new sound, and that I will learn to enjoy it in time. I sure hope that's true. In fact, it would be interesting to put my RF-3 system back in place after say, a month, and see what I think of it then. I wouldn't be too surprised if I found it horrible by that point. :-)

As to another concern I had about the huge RF-7s - I was afraid that being jammed up against the wall they would end up sounding "boomy". I need not have worried - they are playing very nicely in their less-than-ideal placement. The bass and mid-range is pleasantly full and clean.

So there are my thoughts, such as they are. I'd be interested to know if anyone else has experienced a similar initial reaction to these speakers, only to come to realize in time that what they THOUGHT they wanted to hear was simply the result of listening to inferior speakers for far too long. :-)

[BluBitRates]

your tweeter could not be functioning correctly and still not sound horrible. I suggest you do more testing and critical listening