steve Posted April 23, 2002 Share Posted April 23, 2002 I've been absent from the bulletin board for awhile, as I ventured from this town, and then moved back after 8 months. Anyway, I need some of your expertise advice. I'm looking for a nice tube preamp, with phono inputs if at all possible. I currently run the Adcom GFP-565 which is a nice preamp, but what with Klipschorns I believe tubes all the way around would be less harsh. I have 1982 KHorns (purchased new) Assemblage SET300B amp, and an Adcom GCD750 CD player. Also run a JVC QL5YF turntable, purchased new. (am I dating myself??) Any suggestions on a nice smooth (not too expensive!) tube preamp?? Thanx all! Steve ------------------ Happiness is coming Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted April 24, 2002 Share Posted April 24, 2002 If you dont want to break the bank in terms of the cost there are 2 items that spring to mind readily for a pre-amp: The Bottlehead Foreplay. The DECWARE ZTPRE. The Decware is the more expensive of the 2 units but I found that in my setup it was the better performer. It also has the added advantage of being readily tailorable to your setup - out of the box. You get the choice of high or low output levels, 2 capacitor settings and agressive or normal presentation (more or less bias). One note : Neither of these have phono stages so you would have to get that separately. I do not regard this as a disadvantage particuarly as you can find very inexpensive stages that are usually better than built in items. Also you can find stages that will support both MM and MC cartridges so that if you decide to change your TT at some point in the future you are still covered. (One further point. From what I understand (limited) tube phono stages are a bit limiting in terms of supporting MC cartridges - they do not seem to offer sufficient amplification for the job and most people I have spoken to recommend getting a solid state device. Plug that into your tube pre, however, and you still get that wonderful tube sound). Just my 0.02 ------------------ My System: http://aca.gr/pop_maxg.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted April 24, 2002 Share Posted April 24, 2002 Steve, If you're into DIY, you may want to consider this offering that I may also attempt in the near future. The price of the basic kit is soooo tempting, add some upgrades and you're really cooking. The Basie Kit Klipsch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShapeShifter Posted April 24, 2002 Share Posted April 24, 2002 Heard the Basie Pre amp at the Mid-West Audio Fest last month. It was paired with Consonance's Billie 300B SET Amp. They were using TJ 300B Mesh Plates in the amps. Very nice sounding Setup. Wes ------------------ "KLIPSCH IS MUSIC"f> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundog Posted April 24, 2002 Share Posted April 24, 2002 A dynaco PAS4 (a 1999 update of an old dynaco design) works well for me. They sold for $1000. originally - show up as NOS on ebay for about $500. from time to time and, of course, used. Needed to invest a little additional in upgraded tubes, however, to get the full benefit. One is on ebay now: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1348151134 ------------------ Soundog's HT Systems This message has been edited by soundog on 04-25-2002 at 07:09 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve Posted April 25, 2002 Author Share Posted April 25, 2002 thanx all for answering! MaxG the decware sounds inticing..is the bass response acceptable in this amp? Are the highs too harsh? That's what I notice in my Adcom setup.. My volume control is almost useless in the Adcom due to the KHorn's efficiency rating..I have a passive attenuator between the preamp/amp..will the output selection i.e.hi/low on the Decware take care of this problem?? Thanx for your input! Steve ------------------ Happiness is coming Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thrusti Posted April 25, 2002 Share Posted April 25, 2002 Hey Steve, I have to give my vote to the Bottlehead Foreplay. It's a really simple kit to build with a really simple circuit design and of course the sound is great! It's a great kit for tinkering around with too, there are many documented mods out there for this one. The big plus is that Bottlehead has their own forum on the AudioAsylum so you can get the support from all Bottlehead product owners! And at $149 for the base kit, you can't go wrong. I own the Foreplay with the Sweet Whispers and Anticipation upgrade, along with the snubber upgrade, upgraded caps. It's a great performer for the money. Once again though, you will have to get a separate phono stage but I hear that Doc B and his mad engineers at Bottlehead are finishing hammering out their phono kit. Give them a look at www.bottlehead.com Kevin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted April 25, 2002 Share Posted April 25, 2002 Over the last dozen years, I have accumulated a pair of big old Klipsch Cornwall I horn speakers super-efficient at 100 dB/w/m, a politely British Rotel 951 CD player and a Dynaco Pas3 Series II tube pre-amp. The Series II makes some minor but important improvements over the original. It was also $500. I had it up against a Conrad Johnson costing several time more and though that they both did a very good job. With such high quality and revealing big old horns as the Khorns, I like the Foreplay reviews, but I would also look as offerings from Wellbourne and Wright Sound. They know music the way that you do. ------------------ Colin's Music System Cornwall 1s & Klipsch subs; lights out & tubes glowing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve Posted April 25, 2002 Author Share Posted April 25, 2002 first, thanx to all of you that responded. I was intrigued by all and checked internet sites for the aforementioned preamps. The Decware that MaxG suggested piqued my interest, so I emailed Steve Deckert, and he suggested I call him. I talked to him today, and explained to me that the problem was more than likely in the amp and preamp..and that I'd notice a bigger change in the amp than the pre. That said, I ordered a Zen Triode amp, with a 30 day guarantee. I've enjoyed the 300B SET that I have, but I've read a lot of great reviews right here on this BB singing the praises of the zen amp. And Steve said to be prepared to be surprised! So I'm gonna give it a go. Be advised I will go directly from the CD player to the amp, eliminating the pre amp whilst comparing the differences. Then we'll think preamp. I'm glad I'm not alone in my crazy quest for that unattainable perfect sound! Good thing I have a wife that understands! She says I could have a lot of worse habits!! Steve ------------------ Happiness is coming Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leok Posted April 27, 2002 Share Posted April 27, 2002 Steve, Why not try a simple attenuator. Creek makes a nice one with remote control for about $300. It's the OBH-12. Creek also makes couple of nice phono preamps, OBH-8SE for mm and OBH-9 for mc. The OBH-8SE is all class A .. no op-amps, and is not harsh. auduioadvisor.com has them, and a few additional Creek passive preamp type offerings. If you don't need the gain, no matter how good an active preamp is, it's just adding distortion. good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted April 28, 2002 Share Posted April 28, 2002 Steve, Sorry I did not get back to you earlier - I have been awol for a few days. I read both your subsequent posts and although it appears a little redundant now I will tell you that the ZTPRE does wonderful things to the highs on Heritage speakers, softening them up nicely without losing the detail. It is difficult to advise on the bass as I have Heresy speakers (not the bassiest in the world anyway) and a powered subwoofer driven off the main outs of the amps. In this setup I have all the bass I want (running with the sub set to about 2/5th's volume). Should I want more I just wack it up a bit - but big bass is not really my bag - I go for balance (ideally plus or minus 2 dB at most across the range 20Hz to 20 KHz). Look forward to hearing your impressions of the DECWARE amps themselves - I have never heard them! I imagine that later on you may well go the route of the ZTPRE anyway - I imagine it is a perfect meatch with his triode amp. PS - not sure about the wisdom of directly connecting the CD player to the amps. I assume your CD player has a volume control (as mine does) but check to see that it is not digital. Mine is and it makes a real mess of the sound in comparison to my older pre - let alone the ZTPRE. For reference my CD plater is the Marantz CD6000 - a decent enough unit but nothing special. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowooo Posted April 28, 2002 Share Posted April 28, 2002 Steve....I've been flirting with getting a tube pre for awhile also. I stopped into my local high end shop on Friday to take a look at some Marsh products. But all he could talk about was this preamp from VTL. It's the 2.5 I believe and goes for 1,500.00 new and I've seen a few used for 700.00 or so already. It has six inputs and a mute/volume remote, silver or black face. He really raved about this unit, and I'm thinking about going this route. It has 2-12AU7--2x12AT7 tubes. You can get more info on VTL.com. Good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve Posted April 30, 2002 Author Share Posted April 30, 2002 thanx all agin for the advice! leok-I have tried the Creek remote attenuator ($200.00) I sent it back-it was a good unit, no doubt but it didn't do anymore than a less expensive attenuator did (see first post-I have one in the system) Only diff is the Creek is remote-the one I use now is not. Also, talking to Steve at Decware, he seems to feel that an attenuator between the preamp/source and amp invites clipping..as it compresses the signal. Not being a rocket scientist myself, I can't attest to that, but he certainly seems to know what he's talking about..and I've certainly heard a lot of great reviews about his products! Thanx for the suggestion though-I appreciate all input. Rowooo-does the Marsh have any phono inputs? I'm kinda thinking towards the Decware preamp, if the Zen amp does it for me..but I'm open to suggestions-thank you! MaxG..thanx for replying. I'll definitely let you know how I perceive the Zen amp..I've researched it, looked at the reviews, and believe me I'm jazzed! Steve gives a 30 day guarantee, so what have I got to lose?? As for the CD player being connected to the Zen amp, that was his suggestion. The Zen has a built in pot volume control..so it'll work coupled directly. He WANTS me to remove the preamp, as comparison. I'll definitely look at the ZTPRE if the zen works for me. As stated in an earlier post, he steered me clear of the more expensive pre, and said I should try the amp first, as this may be the problem As for the possible bass (or lack of it) problem, I too utilize a sub for the lows..not too much either (altho I have been known to accent it if the mood calls for it!) I use the Bob Carver true sub..that little bugger sure puts out! Anyway, I'll report on the Zen in another post when I receive it..Steve said it will take 2-3 weeks to build/send. Thanx again all! Steve ------------------ Happiness is coming Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve Posted April 30, 2002 Author Share Posted April 30, 2002 rowooo sorry..I re-read your post..my questions pertain to the VTL-not Marsh..got ahead of myself.. Thanx! Steve ------------------ Happiness is coming Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klewless Posted April 30, 2002 Share Posted April 30, 2002 Steve, I fail to understand how a passive device can compress the signal. If it had inductors and capacitors to change the signal, that is one thing. But if it is just a volume pot, I am at a loss. It just "don't compute" to me. Can anyone help explain? Thanks ------------------ John P St Paul, MN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edster00 Posted April 30, 2002 Share Posted April 30, 2002 steve, I had a pair of the Signature Zen Triode Mono Blocks (SV83M) driving my Khorns for awhile. I like the sound of these amps very much, very open sounding, lots of detail, etc.etc.etc. The only problem I found with them is they just didn't have enough power for my taste. They really started giving out in the low 90dB range. I returned them after 28 days. I have not tried any of his preamps though. I am very pleased with a AES (Cary) AE-3 Superpreamp DJH version. I hope the Zen amps do the trick for you, be sure to post a follow up! ------------------ 2 Channel System: '78 Khorns w/ALK networks Welborne Labs Moondog 2A3 amps AES AE-3 Superpreamp DJH mods McIntosh MCD 7007 CD McIntosh MR-78 Tuner DIYCable Twisted Cross Connects DIYCable Superlatives (preamp/amp) DH Labs Silver Pulse interconnects (sources/preamp) f> s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowooo Posted April 30, 2002 Share Posted April 30, 2002 Steve...The VTL has an optional internally fittable phono stage, not sure about additional cost though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted April 30, 2002 Share Posted April 30, 2002 Everyone here knows of my passion for old MAC tube gear, which tends to be VERY pricey these days. But there is one piece of classic McIntosh that is WAY undervalued and that's the MX-110 preamp/FM tuner. It's sort of like a C-11 and MR-67 all rolled into one and has a KILLER FM tuner and a GREAT preamp with both line and phono inputs--uses 12AX7 and 6U8 tubes in the preamp secetion. IT also has all the WAY COOL stuff a good vintage preamp should have--tone controls, mono switch, etc. These beauties can still be had for about 4 or 5 hundred bucks if you look around! You'll love this unit! And if you don't, you can spin it for a profit! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve Posted May 1, 2002 Author Share Posted May 1, 2002 Edster how does the Welborne amps compare for soundstage?? And was the Zen amp clipping? Thanx for the help! Steve ------------------ Happiness is coming Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve Posted May 1, 2002 Author Share Posted May 1, 2002 oops.. how DO the amps (or how DOES the amp) compare? I need to proofread before I hit the submit button! Steve ------------------ Happiness is coming Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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