RC-64 II Speaker Placement Woes

[MasonK]

Hello everyone,

First, a "brief" on the home theater setup I have been working on. My dad is an amatuer movie buff and I wanted to try some new things with the home theater. I made an HTPC for him that we rip movies to and watch from the pc as well as watch digital cable with a digital cable card tuner. Everything is done through the HTPC basically. He originally had Klipsch Quintet III system with synergy sub-10. He was extremely unsatisfied with the center's performance and wanted to upgrade it. In short, he decided to upgrade everything.

2 x RF-7 II

1 x RC-64

4 x RS-62

1 x SW-311

Emotiva UMC-1 Preamp/Processor

Emotiva UPA-7 Amplifier

Blue Jeans cable RCA cables going from UMC-1 to UPA-7, and Blue Jeans speaker cable going to speakers

I thought I had the speaker placement planned out to the best of my ability, until I find out my dad purchased an atrocious new TV/bookcase center that he thought would go perfect with the speakers. I had no idea until I saw it and almost lost the rest of my hair. The original plan was to have the TV set on top of the center and the floor stand speakers in their normal position. Now(I will post pics soon), the center is in a cave below the listening position 12" from the floor, and the left floorstand in the left corner of the room.

Why do I think this is a problem? The sound coming out of the center speaker sounds muddy compared to the rest of the system. When watching movies in DTS or DD(or their HD counter parts) the center channel seems get drowned out by the floorstands big time. The Emotive EMOQ software automatically sets the center speakers during calibration at +1.5db. But under "normal" listening volumes(using SPL meter) the center still seems to get drowned out or feel muddy. I have to turn up the center channel a little more myself, and my dad has to turn it up to +6 db.

I would tilt the center speaker up a little, but the TV center has an edge that curves outward a small amount infront of the center speaker. Also the fits pretty snug in the hole - not much room to move up/down left/right.

Am I crazy? Should I look elsewhere for the issue? Does it sound like the center is performing normally? Will it not be clearer outside of a box? Maybe some sound proofing inside?

Thank you,

~Mason

[USNRET]

My technique: Let the resident, on-board dinky do's set the levels as they want; this should get the delays somewhere in the neighborhood. Then I grab the SPL meter and set the channel levels equally. Also, on my RF-83s and my HT Belles I set them all to small.

[SuBXeRo]

My suggestion to you would be to set all of the speakers at 0.0db all around. I typically up my center around 1.5-3.0db. The muddyness you describe could be a caus eof your frequency crossover being too low on your center. I have experienced muddyness before and upping the crossover to 60-65 on anything ive had has cleared it up. You center channel placement is kinda sucky IMO. I would like to see pictures when you get a chancee o post them to reaffirm my decision. The rf-7's have a big arse sound stage, if they are very close together, it may not be helping things. Now to clarify, is this the rc-64 II?

I typically dont use the SPL meters or calibration software. I take a longer route. I like to set everything evenly, then i take into consideration the sensitivity difference and calibrate gains from there. After that i do trial and error crossover settings and then when happy with that i change the frequency gains in the equalizer. In the case of my rf-7's not the II's i upped the bottom end abit to have more boom at lower volumes.

Hope this helps a bit. Its tough getting your system just right but it is going to take time, alot of starting and stopping during movies or changing things on the fly.

[Heritage_Head]

Is there any possibility to put the center above the tv? I guess

when I see the pics that might answer my questions. Sub makes a good point about the crossover. I run

my rc-64ii as large but mine isn’t 12” to the ground. The floor will act like a

type of bass horn and will enhance the bass. So moving the crossover up might help

a little but that speaker shouldn’t sound muddy.

[Ironsave]

I agree about setting the dbs manually (with a meter).

I run my center +2db versus the Heresy Is.

I think you may find above the tv is superior versus 12" off the floor.

(I believe ideal is ear level in seated viewing position)....

Good Luck.

[cornfedksboy]

You are correct that ear level is ideal. That is a little difficult though when ideal tv placement is eye level. The general compromise is the center directly below the tv and pointed up slightly. I also wouldn't hesitate to increase the crossover setting and db level if it sounds better. That's what they are there for.

[MasonK]

The center speaker is the RC-64 II. The EMOQ calibration system likes to set the crossover for the center speaker to 55hz. I change it to 60 - 65hz and turn up the db some to make it easier to hear.

The left RF-7 II is in the far left corner nearly against the wall because the new TV center/stand is so wide. So the floorstands are not very close together. I will have pics tomorrow.

It is impossible for me to get the center speaker above the TV(as you will see). If I were to sit the TV on top of the center speaker with this particular TV center/stand, the TV would be way too high in the air. The new TV center/stand has the TV way too high as it is.

Thank you,

~Mason

[CECAA850]

Have you double checked the wiring to be sure it's not out of phase?

[MasonK]

I am back at it. I have been away for awhile but I was able to set the project aside for a long time by toning down the RF-7 IIs and jacking up the dB on the center speaker. I'm sure this is fine for the aging-near-deaf-causual listener(sorry to anyone offended); but when I decide to endulge I get a very "canny" sound. And of course, it's all dialog. I need to get the full sound of the system that I know is there.

I am close to tossing my UMC-1, but on the word of the XMC-1 and a discount(UMC-1 owners) I am not. I have been able to make the experience bareable with a lot of experimenting with drivers and different versions of TMT5 and various other programs. I am starting to think the HTPC route is not the way to go for this system. But I know there is much better sound to be had.

A note on that: the sound of the lossless disc rips coming out to the RF-7 IIs is pure heaven. Goose pimples ensue. But most of the time I find myself watching movies where goose pimples are not.

I have some time between now and Christmas to do some recalibrating and a lot of toying. I will be posting those pictures I promised. If anyone has any suggestions, I appreciate it.

Thanks,

~Mason

[russ69]

Just a thought, but can you set up a good blu-ray player just for the set-up/problem solving? If I was having your issues, I'd start with stereo, add the sub, then blend in the center channel. Starting with a good source will help eliminate one less issue.