Bought Klipschorns - sound terrible - sage advice welcome

[Soeren Basboell]

JJK,

I have been visiting DEW-4 a couple of times some 30yrs ago, so maybe we know each other without knowing it...

I think you could have got the whole station for free if you promised to take it away and then you could have installed it in Ohio.

The electricity we use here in Tasiilaq (Ammassalik) and everywhere in Greenland is 230V 50Hz. Maybe Thule Air Base is still using the american standard.

Søren

[psg]

Mine are 20 feet apart and disappear completely, so I doubt 24 feet is too far and needs a center speaker. Mine also didn't imagine at all when I got them and it turned out that the previous owner had installed banana plug connectors and had inverted polarity on one speaker. It just may be that he sold them mbecause they didn't image to his liking! Triple check your connection and you need to get these babies sealed tight into the corners.

[sheltie dave]

PSG, his room is 24 X 14 feet, so he will be getting little of the room spatial clues that allow the secondary imaging, even if he is sitting on a couch shoved against the wall. Even in this big room, he is nearfield for the room dimensions, and imaging is a tricky deal when the geometry is wanked.

[LarryC]

No bass, hole in the middle and bad soundstage are classic results of the speaker phases being reversed.

Tracking down the exact problem is difficult if something is truly out of phase. If you suspect that, I'd suggest going driver-by-driver, i.e., disconnect the tweets and mids on both sides, and listen only to the bass horns. Out-of-phase is a serious bet if a hole in the middle appears and (1) seems to tug at your ears, or (2) the sound jumps from side to side as you move back and forth between the speakers. Reverse the leads on ONE speaker if you're not sure.

When you're satisfied you have it right, disconnect the bass and tweets and repeat the process for the mids. Do the same with only the tweets playing.

If you do find out-of-phase drivers, you THEN have to make sure each driver pair is in phase with the other driver pairs! Otherwise, you may have left both bass drivers out of phase with the mids. Rinse, repeat for all driver pairs.

It's a lot of work, but any out-of-phaseness is distracting and degrades both bass and the blend.

[30blows]

First, many thanks for the varied and intelligent responses. <br /><br />

This morning I took apart all the non-soldered connections in one speaker and scrubbed all the connecting parts with isopropyl alcohol and a toothbrush. On re-assembly - what an amazing difference! This fixed 80% of the bass problem, and when I get the speaker well into a corner, that should fix the rest. <br /><br />

I don't think anything is out of phase, but I will go through this carefully as well, as advised. Multi-meter is coming in the post so I can check the resistence on all the components. <br /><br />

Sooner or later, I will get it all working right.

[J M O N]

No bass, hole in the middle and bad soundstage are classic results of the speaker phases being reversed.

This was my first thought. Double and triple check this. You don't even have to go in and verify that the drivers are in phase from the x-over, double check that you got the connection right coming from the amp to the crossover. I've done this myself once, double checked it, and didn't realize my mistake until the third or fourth double-check! Felt pretty supid afterwards. As suggested, check the simple things first, even the connections.

I've got that same amp and while it is probably not the best match for K-horns, it does have substantial bass.

[psg]

PSG, his room is 24 X 14 feet, so he will be getting little of the room spatial clues that allow the secondary imaging, even if he is sitting on a couch shoved against the wall. Even in this big room, he is nearfield for the room dimensions, and imaging is a tricky deal when the geometry is wanked.

Sounds like he found his problem, but... I once had mine 18 feet apart in a 32x11 room, and sat against the back wall. It was the best imaging I ever had, go figure!

[30blows]

The bass problem is resolved. And 50% of the imaging problem. The middle is still weak. If you stand up against the back wall things start coalesce, but not quite, so I may have to try the speakers on the short wall, or move them in along the long wall.

The midrange, and especially the high end, are bright and brassy (obnoxiously so). The high end, for all of its brightness, is also a bit muddy. From what I've read, these problems are likely the result of the Nakamichi CA5/PA5 pre-amp/amp combo. It has been suggested I get a tube pre-amp to start with and see if this fixes the coloration. That is fine - I will look for something used that doesn't cost a mint.

The Klipschorns are now pretty lively, though fatiguing because of the brassy tone, and because they don't quite meld together. On some recordings they seem somewhat veiled. To fix this it has been suggested I replace the crossovers with new ones from Bob & Michael Crites. Well, first things first. When the imaging and brassy problems are fixed, then I can try this.

[Dennie]

Great to hear you are getting things straightened out 30blows!

The imaging and soundstage came together for me and my La Scalas after I replaced the crossovers. Taking the "Blanket" off the speakers (replacing the crossover) made a big difference in the overall sound.

Keep us posted,

Dennie

[pmsummer]

Just replace the caps in the XOs (with the Crites kit, or caps of your choice). Until that XO is at spec (and I assure you they aren't now), you don't really know what you got. I have '78 Cornwalls and Klipschorns that had the motor runoil caps, and they were very poor sounding until I replaced them with new caps. Best $100 (+/-) you'll spend.